Big part of the recent turnaround

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gopherbadgerman

gopherbadgerman

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I have been really impressed with Coleman. Just what the Gophs need...a guy who can score. Curious to thoughts on why he did not play too much earlier in the year? Learning the ropes as a frosh I assume? Regardless it looks like it will be nice to see this kid grow and improve over the next few years. He really looks like a possible all Big 10 type of player that the gophers have been lacking the last few years (besides TM)...
 

Coleman is a stud & flat out took over for a while today. Just because he's playing well now, doesn't automatically mean he should have played more earlier. He's a Freshman and as as you suggest, he's been getting better as the season wears on.
 

People will say that he wasn't ready, or was ill-prepared, or didn't play defense...bottom line, the kid was always ready (as I've said all along). You can tell his fundamentals (he's a Hopkins product after all) are far ahead of a typical freshman, as is most of his decision-making and spacing.

The problem was you'd throw him out there with the 2nd five (Oto, Ingram, Armelin, etc.), only play him 3-4 min at a time, and of course it looked like everyone didn't know what was going on. Especially for a freshman, he never got a chance to get in the flow of the game.

Tubby finally gave him some decent PT and a chance to settle in with the starting 5 guys, and he's had a chance to excel and show what he can do. Couple that with we have gotten away from the god-awful high-low offense that we had when Mbakwe was playing (trying to capitalize on both RSIII and Mbakwe in at the same time), and the new offense has allowed some penetration space for the guards from the top of the key and the wings.

Thus, I'd say Coleman & Welch have excelled the most since the move to the 3 guard line-up because they actually have some room to create & penetrate...where within the high-low offense we've been running the past 3-4 years, the guards have had nowhere to go. If they attempt to drive, there was always 1 or 2 posts on the block, stifling any room they had to drive.

To to sum it up, a number of things...
 

gopherbadgerman said:
I have been really impressed with Coleman. Just what the Gophs need...a guy who can score. Curious to thoughts on why he did not play too much earlier in the year?
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Just took Tubby a while to get around to reading GopherHole.
 



I try not to second guess coaches a whole lot, but it seemed strange to me when Mav was getting a lot of minutes in lieu of Coleman. In might have been the MN homer in me, but I really was impressed with Coleman last year. I kind of figured Tubby just saw something to think Mav was better than Coleman.
 

Another part of it people seem to be ignoring is that when Welch was playing the point at the beginning of the year he wasn't doing well. It could be that Tubby was waiting for Welch to get comfortable in practice, requiring Mav to play more.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I try not to second guess coaches a whole lot, but it seemed strange to me when Mav was getting a lot of minutes in lieu of Coleman. In might have been the MN homer in me, but I really was impressed with Coleman last year. I kind of figured Tubby just saw something to think Mav was better than Coleman.
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Mav had a couple big non conference games. Tubby rewarded that by starting him.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
People will say that he wasn't ready, or was ill-prepared, or didn't play defense...bottom line, the kid was always ready (as I've said all along). You can tell his fundamentals (he's a Hopkins product after all) are far ahead of a typical freshman, as is most of his decision-making and spacing.

The problem was you'd throw him out there with the 2nd five (Oto, Ingram, Armelin, etc.), only play him 3-4 min at a time, and of course it looked like everyone didn't know what was going on. Especially for a freshman, he never got a chance to get in the flow of the game.

Tubby finally gave him some decent PT and a chance to settle in with the starting 5 guys, and he's had a chance to excel and show what he can do. Couple that with we have gotten away from the god-awful high-low offense that we had when Mbakwe was playing (trying to capitalize on both RSIII and Mbakwe in at the same time), and the new offense has allowed some penetration space for the guards from the top of the key and the wings.

Thus, I'd say Coleman & Welch have excelled the most since the move to the 3 guard line-up because they actually have some room to create & penetrate...where within the high-low offense we've been running the past 3-4 years, the guards have had nowhere to go. If they attempt to drive, there was always 1 or 2 posts on the block, stifling any room they had to drive.

To to sum it up, a number of things...
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You're right. He's been the best guard on the team since stepping on campus, has not progressed at all, never had to figure out team defense, should not have been required to earn his minutes, Tubby refused to play him out of spite, Tubby loves Mav so much he was willing to flush the entire season. Internet poster 1, Hall of Fame coach 0. Let's fire Tubby & start over.
 



Costa Rican Gopher said:
You're right. He's been the best guard on the team since stepping on campus, has not progressed at all, never had to figure out team defense, should not have been required to earn his minutes, Tubby refused to play him out of spite, Tubby loves Mav so much he was willing to flush the entire season. Internet poster 1, Hall of Fame coach 0. Let's fire Tubby & start over.
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Cute.
 

Coleman has progressed nicely as the season went on. It was pretty obvious his trend was upward, but I just don't think it's Tubby's style to just throw minutes at a kid unless he feels he has to. Kinda like with the PG thing and Andre, I think he felt he had to play him early on. His ideal is to play guys who have at least some experience, obviously. When we were 12-1, it's like, okay, work with it. When you drop 3 in a row, you reconsider things, and he adjusted and let a consistently improving Coleman get into that starting lineup.

Like I said in that other Coleman thread from before, I thought he struggled early on figuring out how to get his shots off with the increased pace of the game and strength of opponents compared to high school. He has obviously figured it out. I don't know if we can just assume him playing 25 minutes from day 1 would have garnered much different results right now, but yes, it could be argued that perhaps we get a little more production in one of those first three B1G games that could have been the difference in 0-3, vs. maybe 2-1 or at least 1-2.

Point is, the kid is showing he's got the chops to be a stud in this league as he continues to grow, and that's all I care about now. Can't dwell on the past.
 


In terms of PG play, it's becoming very apparent we need Welch on the floor as much as humanly possible. That will be especially so vs. the upper-tier Big Ten opponents. He's not a true point, but he's far & away the best, most productive and calmest & coolest we have. Andre Hollins will be fine eventually, but he's not ready for major minutes yet, especially vs. teams that pressure the ball. Now I understand why Tubby has been very conservative with Andre's minutes. He doesn't look comfortable when he's handling the ball. Shooting it, he's fine.
 



SelectionSunday said:
In terms of PG play, it's becoming very apparent we need Welch on the floor as much as humanly possible. That will be especially so vs. the upper-tier Big Ten opponents. He's not a true point, but he's far & away the best, most productive and calmest & coolest we have. Andre Hollins will be fine eventually, but he's not ready for major minutes yet, especially vs. teams that pressure the ball. Now I understand why Tubby has been very conservative with Andre's minutes. He doesn't look comfortable when he's handling the ball. Shooting it, he's fine.
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+1
 

I think it's an easy question to figure out. Early on Dre was better suited for how they were playing.. Dre is a good outside shooter and showed it early. Plus you had Austin, Welch, Mav and Chip. Joe had to earn his minutes but with the High/Low offense it would have been tougher for him to drive and score with the paint being so packed. Mbakwe gets hurt joe goes from 6/7 minutes a game to 12/14 minutes and was showing some things.

Dre hurt his ankle and has been struggling since.Then Austin started struggling when conference play started. Remember he went to the bench in coleman's first start. I think Tubby figured out he could trust the kid and he also knows right now Austin, Coleman and Welch are the 3 best guards. Knowing you have some good upside with Dre and pretty much knows what he has in Chip and Mav.
 

The flex is obviously a lot better for JC than the hi-lo. If Mbakwe doesn't get hurt, maybe JC is still playing 10 minutes with the 2nd 5. It's a team game. It's less a question of whether he was ready than of what the team needed. Still, he's obviously ready, and yes, I remember a couple threads that said so quite some time ago. More kids from Hopkins might be what this program needs. Or who knows, a coach from Hopkins?
 

Mav and Coleman don't play the same position so I don't think Mav's playing time was the reason Coleman didn't play a lot of minutes early. Mav was playing a lot because Andre Hollins and Welch had injury issues which limited their playing time.

Remember, until Mbakwe went down, we weren't playing a three guard line up...as Rodney was at the 3. When Mbakwe went down, Tubby clearly wanted to go three guard (no choice really), especially since Ingram wasn't healthy...so it took a few games to figure out who would work. It wasn't just Mav starting or Coleman not starting, remember that Austin Hollins didn't start a couple games, Chip had a couple of really good games off the bench.

I have no issue with how Tubby has handled this...how many of us thought the season was over when Mbakwe went down? How many on this board were calling for Tubby to fired mid-season after starting 0 and 4? Too many short memories on this board.
 

GopherinPhilly, you must stop making sense on GopherHole. I guarantee you will get ripped apart by a few experts.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Mav and Coleman don't play the same position so I don't think Mav's playing time was the reason Coleman didn't play a lot of minutes early. Mav was playing a lot because Andre Hollins and Welch had injury issues which limited their playing time.

Remember, until Mbakwe went down, we weren't playing a three guard line up...as Rodney was at the 3. When Mbakwe went down, Tubby clearly wanted to go three guard (no choice really), especially since Ingram wasn't healthy...so it took a few games to figure out who would work. It wasn't just Mav starting or Coleman not starting, remember that Austin Hollins didn't start a couple games, Chip had a couple of really good games off the bench.

I have no issue with how Tubby has handled this...how many of us thought the season was over when Mbakwe went down? How many on this board were calling for Tubby to fired mid-season after starting 0 and 4? Too many short memories on this board.
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+1
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Mav and Coleman don't play the same position so I don't think Mav's playing time was the reason Coleman didn't play a lot of minutes early. Mav was playing a lot because Andre Hollins and Welch had injury issues which limited their playing time.

Remember, until Mbakwe went down, we weren't playing a three guard line up...as Rodney was at the 3. When Mbakwe went down, Tubby clearly wanted to go three guard (no choice really), especially since Ingram wasn't healthy...so it took a few games to figure out who would work. It wasn't just Mav starting or Coleman not starting, remember that Austin Hollins didn't start a couple games, Chip had a couple of really good games off the bench.

I have no issue with how Tubby has handled this...how many of us thought the season was over when Mbakwe went down? How many on this board were calling for Tubby to fired mid-season after starting 0 and 4? Too many short memories on this board.
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+2
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Mav and Coleman don't play the same position so I don't think Mav's playing time was the reason Coleman didn't play a lot of minutes early. Mav was playing a lot because Andre Hollins and Welch had injury issues which limited their playing time.
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Mav and Julian were starting in the backcourt together; Mav is no longer starting, Coleman is with Julian sliding to point. So yes, technically Welch replaced Mav and Coleman replaced Welch
 



I kinda said this already but, I think Mav was playing because Welch wasn't quite ready to take over at point. Welch was still playing though because it was pretty clear he needed to be on the floor. I think once Tubby felt Welch was comfortable playing the point he bumped Mav from the starting lineup, enabling us to start Welch Austin and Coleman.
 

zambam said:
I kinda said this already but, I think Mav was playing because Welch wasn't quite ready to take over at point. Welch was still playing though because it was pretty clear he needed to be on the floor. I think once Tubby felt Welch was comfortable playing the point he bumped Mav from the starting lineup, enabling us to start Welch Austin and Coleman.
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Pretty much agree. It's not always one simple reason but the main reason was Tubby felt Mav was the best option at pg. Once it became apparent that the team was better off with Welch at pg, there was a line-up opening. Mav was not an option at a position other than pg.
 

jamalo said:
stay classy, Mr Esposito!!

Iowa starting lineup: Rodney, Austin, RSIII, Welch Maverick

Indiana starting lineup: Rodney, Austin, RSIII, Welch Coleman
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First, My name is not Joe Esposito. Since I have been living out of state since graduating from the U 20 years ago, and have only been on Gopherhole for a year or so, can't say as I know who he is, or really care for that matter. Sorry, Joe, if I should know you...:)

Second, sorry if my post comes across as not classy. Was not my intent. However, your constant Tubby bashing and seemingly skewed perspective is simply a matter of record from your posts. I was merely reiterating what I have experienced from you, and what many others have expressed to you as well. However, if you were offended by this comment, then I do apologize.

Third, simply saying that Mav was the starter against Iowa and then Coleman was against Indiana really proves nothing, since Mav was a replacement. All you've really done is prove my point, that Coleman replaced the replacement. But please, feel free to continue to put your own spin on things.

Finally, I agree with Zambam's post beneath yours as an equally plausible explanation to mine, so please refer to that if you are wondering what my response might be to your next post which will undoubtedly be to disagree with my post by putting your own spin on things again. :)
 

Joe Esposito is one of the Gopher assistant coaches who handles scheduling.
 


One thing that impressed me about Coleman in the NW game is that he seemed to have a good sense about when to attack and he never really forced anything. He let the game come to him as they say and when NW gave him a little space, he made them pay.

Against a better team like MSU, he's probably gonna have to be more aggressive or we'll have a hard time getting open looks.

I would actually like to see him become even more aggressive and hope his teammates, namely Welch and Hollins start looking for more ways to feed him.
 

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