Have any of you gopher fans just forgotten about what has happened over the last few years with the transfers and injuries to this team. With the lost of Trevor this year, could damage any team. Mo Walker is still unavailable. Colton Iverson and Devoe Joseph both transfered last season and could have helped alot this year. Al Nolan was injured most of last season. We seen what the team looked like with a complete team at the beginning of last season by winning the tournament. Justin Cobb and Paul Carter transfered in 2010. Who can forget about Royce White. If these players weren't injured or players transerring, things would look alot better. Tubby is already a proven winner, can't help the bad luck. Everyone should be looking at this a different way other than, let's get rid of Tubby. It's just a string of bad luck.
Its not the coaching, it's just bad luck
- Thread starter perk
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perk said:
Why does Tubby have so many players transfer, honest question? I don't blame him for the injured players obviously but he can be held accountable for not being able to recruit serviceable backups for injured players.
White was all because of himself. Cobbs and Devoe it has been said left in part because Pac-10 has more open system of play. Colt, I really have no idea. Carter it was said left because he wanted to be closer to his sister, but there has been people saying it was in part the system as well.
Tubby is responsible for the state of his program. It would be one thing if the Gophers sputtered around .500 in the conference and weren't getting past being a bubble team due to the situations you mentioned, but that's not what has happened. The team finished last year 6-12 in the conference and has currently lost 9 in a row (and 13 of 14) within the conference.
There's certainly been some bad luck involved (more than our fair share per usual), but the fact is that we are in year 5 of Tubby's tenure and he has not recruited a go to player yet, nor has he recruited a point guard or a shooter that represented an upgrade (over an equal to) Nolen and Hoffarber. The bad luck that the Gophers have experienced can be a reason why Tubby hasn't won or even competed for a Big Ten title, but it can't be used as an excuse to be a bottom tier team in year 5.
There's certainly been some bad luck involved (more than our fair share per usual), but the fact is that we are in year 5 of Tubby's tenure and he has not recruited a go to player yet, nor has he recruited a point guard or a shooter that represented an upgrade (over an equal to) Nolen and Hoffarber. The bad luck that the Gophers have experienced can be a reason why Tubby hasn't won or even competed for a Big Ten title, but it can't be used as an excuse to be a bottom tier team in year 5.
Many people see the game of college basketball totally differently. Who seen all of these things happening over the last 3 years with the transfers and mostly the injuries. I didn't. Im not saying that Tubby has the right to use those reasons for an excuse but facts are facts:
1. If any team in the country has went through what the gophers have went though over the last 3 years, they would also have problems.
2. When any coach recruits players, he is not thinking, well this person is going to transfer his junior year or this person is going to have an injury his senior year. I just believe when you are hit that hard every year for three years in a role, it hard and it takes time to get back to where you should have been before all the transfers and injures. When Devoe transfered we got Julian Welch. Julian may not be as quick but I think next year he will be a better player than Devoe would have been his senior year with the gophers, mainly because he will play within the system.
3. Some coaches recruit 4 and 5 star players faithly but then you have to worry about them leaving for pro the next year and then you have to teach your whole system over again, I believe Tubby recruits 3 star players flying under the radar that will be there for 4 years and has a chance to build his team. If he is guilty of anything, he is guilty of that, and that may be the reason why we struggle when we lose a valuable player. Let's give him and his coaching staff a chance with a healthy team and all his recruits.
1. If any team in the country has went through what the gophers have went though over the last 3 years, they would also have problems.
2. When any coach recruits players, he is not thinking, well this person is going to transfer his junior year or this person is going to have an injury his senior year. I just believe when you are hit that hard every year for three years in a role, it hard and it takes time to get back to where you should have been before all the transfers and injures. When Devoe transfered we got Julian Welch. Julian may not be as quick but I think next year he will be a better player than Devoe would have been his senior year with the gophers, mainly because he will play within the system.
3. Some coaches recruit 4 and 5 star players faithly but then you have to worry about them leaving for pro the next year and then you have to teach your whole system over again, I believe Tubby recruits 3 star players flying under the radar that will be there for 4 years and has a chance to build his team. If he is guilty of anything, he is guilty of that, and that may be the reason why we struggle when we lose a valuable player. Let's give him and his coaching staff a chance with a healthy team and all his recruits.
I said something very similar to the OP just an hour or so ago in response to GopherGod saying that Tubby should have the roster in a position where it should be able to withstand a transfer or an injury.
I've been curious, how often do coaches just bank scholarships? While looking at Texas' basketball roster today, I saw that the Longhorns only have 11 players this year, whereas most teams have 13 or 14, and they have five recruits coming in for next season, so maybe they just banked a couple of scholarships? It seems like Tubby took Chip, Mav, Ingram, and possibly Welch out of desperation. In retrospect, getting Chip and Mav for last season was probably a good thing, as we would have been finishing the season with only 6 scholarship players provided they didn't burn Eliason's redshirt. I admittedly questioned Tubby when he took Chip and Mav, thinking he could have simply banked the scholarships. Could someone who knows about this sort of thing tell me if banking scholarships is a wise or common practice in college basketball?
I've been curious, how often do coaches just bank scholarships? While looking at Texas' basketball roster today, I saw that the Longhorns only have 11 players this year, whereas most teams have 13 or 14, and they have five recruits coming in for next season, so maybe they just banked a couple of scholarships? It seems like Tubby took Chip, Mav, Ingram, and possibly Welch out of desperation. In retrospect, getting Chip and Mav for last season was probably a good thing, as we would have been finishing the season with only 6 scholarship players provided they didn't burn Eliason's redshirt. I admittedly questioned Tubby when he took Chip and Mav, thinking he could have simply banked the scholarships. Could someone who knows about this sort of thing tell me if banking scholarships is a wise or common practice in college basketball?
GopherOhana
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isn't Mizzou down to 7 scholarship players? Some coaches are getting it done.
BarnBurner
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It is bad luck for Tubby and it was bad coaching for Monson. Injuries (Bickerstaff/Bauer) and player issues (Pryz).
Cant have it both ways.
FanSinceTheFifties
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Our recruiting goal should be to sign two of the top three Minnesota HS players each year. That would fill eight roster spots with kids who are less likely to transfer. If we screen recruits for academic and behavioral acceptability, that would protect us from personnel losses of those kinds. When all you recruit for is what some call "athleticism" you are at risk.
Gold Vision
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FanSinceTheFifties said:
No.
Simple: Mizzou has a 7 man rotation, 5 that seniors, 1 junior and 1 sophomore. They start an experienced starting five. All of their starting 5 players are returning from last season, they only lost 1 player to graduation. They start 4 seniors in Demon, English, Ratliffe, Pressey and 1 junior in Dixon. They have a senior in Moore that comes off the bench and give them a good presents while he is on the floor. They have a new coach in Frank Haith, theirs alot of hype with the program with a new coach, just like it was when Tubby came to Minnesota and had a good first 3 season's, reaching the NIT his first and the NCAA the next two seasons and then the problems started. Let's give him some time to get this bad luck out of the way because I'm here to tell you if Mizzou was to lose one player from an injury right now, they would be in the same postition. At one point people have to look at the facts.
What do you think Tubby or any coach does. I believe he has a good group of guys, Andre Hollins for an example has above a 4.0 GPA. He graduates alot of players. Behavioral problems? I'm sure a coach looks at a players attitude when they are recruiting them, how do they get along with their teammates, coaches and other players on the court but they really don't know until they are playing for them. But really if all coaches where to look at behavioral problems, Kentucky had problems with Demarcus Cousins the whole time he was there, Kansas had problems with some of their top players and suspended them for awhile and even kicked a few off the team, I could go on and on about team with player behavioral problems. Thats why all you can do is try and get it under control.
I think we would have been in worst shape than we already are. Honestly at first I didn't think Mav or Chip were going to help at all and they may not be the best but they have helped alot and I believe next season both of them will be a major part of this team, mainly because they will understand the system and will be juniors next season playing along with Julian, Andre and Austin. I think our backcourt is fine for the next few years.
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They did lose one player to injury, Laurence Bowers (starting senior forward 11.6 ppg and 6.1 rpg). Cue your next excuse please. The difference is Haith has recruited guys who can play. Mbakwe wasn't a Tubby recruit, he transferred to be closer to home.
Bowers was lost at the beginning of the season. And I'm not making excusses, if Tubby was wrong I wouldn't take up for him, facts are just facts And by the way, Frank plays a 7 man rotation which all are seniors and 1 junior, he has only been there since last spring, NONE OF HIS FRESHMAN RECRUITS ARE PLAYING MUCH BASKETBALL OR SEEING MANY MINTUES. CHECK YOUR FACTS!
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There's no doubt in my mind we were the more talented team Wednesday night. I agree that we've had some very bad luck the past few seasons. But that's still no excuse for losing that game. I think both the players and coaches are to blame.
Why didn't we push the ball up the floor in the 2nd half like we did the first 15 minutes of the game?
Why did we just stand around and shoot three's in the 2nd half? That's not our game. We're athletic, we need to take advantage of that.
Why didn't Coleman and Andre Hollins play more?
Why was Maverick in the game the last five minutes when we were down and he's our worst scoring guard?
Why did we look so disinterested in the 2nd half, like they'd rather be at home reading a book?
Why didn't we push the ball up the floor in the 2nd half like we did the first 15 minutes of the game?
Why did we just stand around and shoot three's in the 2nd half? That's not our game. We're athletic, we need to take advantage of that.
Why didn't Coleman and Andre Hollins play more?
Why was Maverick in the game the last five minutes when we were down and he's our worst scoring guard?
Why did we look so disinterested in the 2nd half, like they'd rather be at home reading a book?
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Isn't that the beauty of being a power coach though ZTA? Tubby gets a pass, Monson gets a vote of confidence and soon after gets fired.
It's sooooooo unfair!
Power coach?
Right. Look at who Monson's team has played, and played well this season.
Your boy would have to have a semi load of Fruit of the Looms if he played that schedule blizz. And your boy would have a lot more in the L column as well.
Dont let reality get in the way of your hatred for the former coach.
Frank Haith is some genius now? Whatever you think of Tubby, I'd wouldn't trade him for that guy. Some coaches walk into Mike Anderson's recruits.
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For all the bad luck that Tubby had "no control over" the point remains the same. Tubby does a poor job coaching the players he HAS. The level of disinterest on offense this team has displayed over the years is flat out embarrassing. A coach whose team cant shoot, can't make free throws, and has no half-court offensive flow for the better part of 5 years should be getting grilled more than tubby is right now. The only reason he is getting away with it is because he is Tubby.
Actually he's not getting away with it any more. The boos were raining down in the last several minutes at the Barn. Tubby is getting the heat at this point. He should not be fired, that would be stupid, but the accountability is due.
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Can't disagree with this at all. There was no excuse for them to play so lazy like they did in the second half.
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I know that Monson is doing much better now where he is, but he was in way over his head here. He was not strong enough to coach star players like Pryz and that guy that married that girl that plays for NJ now. They ran him. Tubby is a leader. Tubby is one of the most respected people in basketball. If a kid places hmself above the program, I don't want him here.
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I agree with you. I have made similar posts on other threads in reaction to all of this negativism. I was going to start a similar thread so I am glad you did, perk.
Tubby could have left here long ago. He has been rumored to be considered for every major vacancy since he has been here. That how highly respected he is in the BB community. Yet he has unlike our last true "Tubby Hire" in football by the name of Lou that left us in a terrible position that we are still trying to climb out of.
As I read so many of these Patrick like negative posts, including by mods on another forum, I wonder how people handle adversity in their own lives. Do they just quit. I don't see Tubby quiting and I for one am not quiting on him.
Tubby could have left here long ago. He has been rumored to be considered for every major vacancy since he has been here. That how highly respected he is in the BB community. Yet he has unlike our last true "Tubby Hire" in football by the name of Lou that left us in a terrible position that we are still trying to climb out of.
As I read so many of these Patrick like negative posts, including by mods on another forum, I wonder how people handle adversity in their own lives. Do they just quit. I don't see Tubby quiting and I for one am not quiting on him.
gopheraschells
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Stupid Comment. Totally unrelated
Nobody said anything about Tubby giving up. Tubby is doing a poor job. If someone does a poor job for five straight years while working for you, do you just keep blindly thinking he is going to pull through? Now I am not advocating firing Tubby, as someone said earlier if you fire "The great Tubby Smith", then that makes it look like no one can win here. It is all very depressing, college basketball is my favorite sport and the gophs are my favorite team. But this Tubby is infallible belief that some have is just nauseating. The game has passed him by
Gold Vision
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5 straight years? Come on.
I thought the first three years of Tubby were okay, especially the first two. Really, it was one bad month of basketball at the end of last season that's changed pretty much everything. Now we're struggling into this B1G season, but really, only the Iowa game is alarming, the other two were "quality" losses.
The program is nowhere near where we wanted it to be at this point, nor is it really close to where it should be IMO, but to act like he's just sucked ever since he got here is one of the most asinine things I've read on this board. We were ranked as recently as less than one year ago, he was doing SOMETHING right at the time.
That said, I don't disagree with the OP, but it isn't JUST bad fortunes, Tubby's had his own hand in creating this bed he's lying in right now. There are plenty of things I can think of that I'd wish he'd at least try out, to see if they can help turn things around. There's no guarantees for success, but it feels like he's being a tad too stubborn now considering we're losing B1G games at an alarming rate right now. Shake things up, try some of the younger guys a little more, something.
The program is nowhere near where we wanted it to be at this point, nor is it really close to where it should be IMO, but to act like he's just sucked ever since he got here is one of the most asinine things I've read on this board. We were ranked as recently as less than one year ago, he was doing SOMETHING right at the time.
That said, I don't disagree with the OP, but it isn't JUST bad fortunes, Tubby's had his own hand in creating this bed he's lying in right now. There are plenty of things I can think of that I'd wish he'd at least try out, to see if they can help turn things around. There's no guarantees for success, but it feels like he's being a tad too stubborn now considering we're losing B1G games at an alarming rate right now. Shake things up, try some of the younger guys a little more, something.