I like where this nucleus....

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Costa Rican Gopher

Costa Rican Gopher

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I'm not as down on Tubby as many here, but not a blind follower either. I think at a program like the U we can't expect to be Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, etc. where we're a top-5 team every year, but rather we're a program that needs to build/develop a roster & win the B1G Championship/make the Elite 8 every 4 years or so.

That said, last year Tubby had us positioned for that run & it didn't work out. We were ranked #15 in the nation, playing very well, should have gotten our combo guard back & been a real force. An Elite-8 team imo. Instead, our QB got hurt, our backup transferred leaving us w/out a PG & we all know the rest. People will argue that Tubby should have somehow kept Devoe here (legalize weed?), or that it's his fault for losing Cobbs (who most Tubby critics hated anyhow), or Royce (never understood how this was anyone's fault but Royce's?) & maybe that's so but Tubby DID have us positioned for a great run. If (and I know a lot of teams could say "what if") we'd have had Royce/Mbakwe/Ralph/Rodney/Walker & Nolen/Devoe/Blake we would have been a threat to beat anyone in college basketball. Instead the wheels came off the wagon & we're just not the type of team that "reloads", so it's back to the drawing board with an eye towards 3-4 years down the line again for that next big run.

That brings us to this season & the purpose of this post. Tubby's got this YOUNG team playing hard, playing together & gaining confidence by hanging close in these tough games. Young teams need to learn how to win & I see this nucleus being damn good as early as next year, but especially in 2 years when I think we'll be Elite-8 good again. Projecting 2 years down the line we'd have Mav (Sr), Dre Hollins (Jr), Chip (Sr), Austin Hollins (Sr), Coleman (Jr), Otto (R-Jr), Mo Walker (Jr-Sr?), EE (R-Jr). That's 2 veteran PG's, 2 veteran SG's, two veteran SF's, a veteran PF & veteran C. The front court looks a little thin but this is a nucleus that can win a lot of ball games imo.

Happy New Year to all...
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
I'm not as down on Tubby as many here, but not a blind follower either. I think at a program like the U we can't expect to be Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, etc. where we're a top-5 team every year, but rather we're a program that needs to build/develop a roster & win the B1G Championship/make the Elite 8 every 4 years or so.

That said, last year Tubby had us positioned for that run & it didn't work out. We were ranked #15 in the nation, playing very well, should have gotten our combo guard back & been a real force. An Elite-8 team imo. Instead, our QB got hurt, our backup transferred leaving us w/out a PG & we all know the rest. People will argue that Tubby should have somehow kept Devoe here (legalize weed?), or that it's his fault for losing Cobbs (who most Tubby fans hated anyhow), or Royce (still never understood how this was anyone's fault Royce's?) & maybe that's so but Tubby DID have us positioned for a great run. IF (and I know a lot of teams could say "what if") we'd have had Royce/Mbakwe/Ralph/Rodney/Walker & Nolen/Devoe/Blake we would have been a threat to beat anyone in college basketball. Instead the wheels came off the wagon & we're just not the type of team that "reloads", so it's back to the drawing board with an eye towards 3-4 years down the line again for that next big run.

That brings us to this season & the purpose of this post. Tubby's got this YOUNG team playing hard, playing together & gaining confidence by hanging close in these tough games. Young teams need to learn how to win & I see this nucleus being damn good as early as next year, but especially in 2 years when I think we'll be Elite-8 good again. Projecting 2 years down the line we'd have Mav (Sr), Dre Hollins (Jr), Chip (Sr), Austin Hollins (Sr), Coleman (Jr), Otto (R-Jr), Mo Walker (Jr-Sr?), EE (R-Jr). That's 2 veteran PG's, 2 veteran SG's, two veteran SF's, a veteran PF & veteran C. The front court looks a little thin but this is a nucleus that can win a lot of ball games imo.

Happy New Year to all...
Click to expand...

Hanging with Devoe for the New Year? I'm honestly speachless with the players that you mentioned above in the same sentence as Elite 8.
 

jamalo said:
Hanging with Devoe for the New Year? I'm honestly speachless with the players that you mentioned above in the same sentence as Elite 8.
Click to expand...

Why?
 

jamalo said:
Hanging with Devoe for the New Year? I'm honestly speachless with the players that you mentioned above in the same sentence as Elite 8.
Click to expand...

Didn't those same players just hang with Michigan & Illinois on the road as under-classmen?
 



Why do we keep saying this team is young? Ralph is a senior, Rodney is a junior and may be in his last year, Welch is a junior, etc. Sure Hollins' and Mav are young, but the best players on our team are not young.
 


Stan said:
Why do we keep saying this team is young? Ralph is a senior, Rodney is a junior and may be in his last year, Welch is a junior, etc. Sure Hollins' and Mav are young, but the best players on our team are not young.
Click to expand...

Starting line up:
Mav (sophomore)
Rodney (junior)
Austin (sophomore)
Ralph (senior)
Julien (junior, playing BCS ball for the first time)

Chip (sophomore)
Hollins (freshman)
Oto (freshman)
Elliot (freshman)
Coleman (freshman)
Ingram (junior, playing div 1 ball for the first time)

That's 1 senior, and over half of the roster as underclass men. and only two players who've played more than 2 full seasons of big 10 basketball basketball.
 

I wrote a long reply but erased it and just decided I'd say that I don't agree that there is much upside for the current roster of players.
 



jamalo said:
Because there are no stars, but rather all role players. Is this some kind of joke?


Elite Eight:

PG; Mav and Dre
SG: Chip, Austin, Coleman
SF; Otto
PF: Mo
C: EE
Click to expand...

I think Andre could be a star, as well as Austin. Mo as well.

Andre needs to cut down on turnovers. Austin if he can get to where he can create his own shot. And I think Mo will be really effective going forward. He has size, toughness, and great touch around the basket.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
I'm not as down on Tubby as many here, but not a blind follower either. I think at a program like the U we can't expect to be Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, etc. where we're a top-5 team every year, but rather we're a program that needs to build/develop a roster & win the B1G Championship/make the Elite 8 every 4 years or so.
That said, last year Tubby had us positioned for that run & it didn't work out. We were ranked #15 in the nation, playing very well, should have gotten our combo guard back & been a real force. An Elite-8 team imo. Instead, our QB got hurt, our backup transferred leaving us w/out a PG & we all know the rest. People will argue that Tubby should have somehow kept Devoe here (legalize weed?), or that it's his fault for losing Cobbs (who most Tubby fans hated anyhow), or Royce (still never understood how this was anyone's fault Royce's?) & maybe that's so but Tubby DID have us positioned for a great run. IF (and I know a lot of teams could say "what if") we'd have had Royce/Mbakwe/Ralph/Rodney/Walker & Nolen/Devoe/Blake we would have been a threat to beat anyone in college basketball. Instead the wheels came off the wagon & we're just not the type of team that "reloads", so it's back to the drawing board with an eye towards 3-4 years down the line again for that next big run.That brings us to this season & the purpose of this post. Tubby's got this YOUNG team playing hard, playing together & gaining confidence by hanging close in these tough games. Young teams need to learn how to win & I see this nucleus being damn good as early as next year, but especially in 2 years when I think we'll be Elite-8 good again. Projecting 2 years down the line we'd have Mav (Sr), Dre Hollins (Jr), Chip (Sr), Austin Hollins (Sr), Coleman (Jr), Otto (R-Jr), Mo Walker (Jr-Sr?), EE (R-Jr). That's 2 veteran PG's, 2 veteran SG's, two veteran SF's, a veteran PF & veteran C. The front court looks a little thin but this is a nucleus that can win a lot of ball games imo.

Happy New Year to all...
Click to expand...


So, Minnesota Basketball cant be expected to be in contention for the conference title more than every 4 years? Why is this the prevailing attitude?

How can Marquette, for example, be as highly ranked and finish as well as they do for the past 5-7 years while playing in the Big East, a conference that is/has been tough as nails? There are other teams in the same general area as Marq.

With a coach of Smith's stature and pay grade, in year 5, this should not be the status of the program. It should not be the expectations of the program.

Does Wisconsin think they can win the conf every 3-4 years? I dont think so. Different expectations from fans and administration.
 

Stan said:
Why do we keep saying this team is young? Ralph is a senior, Rodney is a junior and may be in his last year, Welch is a junior, etc. Sure Hollins' and Mav are young, but the best players on our team are not young.
Click to expand...

I don't think we'll be any worse next year without Ralph or Rodney. Give me EE & Mo next year, I think it's an upgrade.
 

scher215 said:
I think Andre could be a star, as well as Austin. Mo as well.

Andre needs to cut down on turnovers. Austin if he can get to where he can create his own shot. And I think Mo will be really effective going forward. He has size, toughness, and great touch around the basket.
Click to expand...

I think EE will be all B1G & play in the league. I also think Coleman will be a very good player.
 



BarnBurner said:
So, Minnesota Basketball cant be expected to be in contention for the conference title more than every 4 years? Why is this the prevailing attitude?
Click to expand...

There is a pretty long list why not. Facilities for recruiting are a big one, IMO. When you recruit 4-year players, which Tubby does, they don't usually fully contribute until their junior year. Right now, due to transfers, they have oddly unbalanced classes.

BarnBurner said:
How can Marquette, for example, be as highly ranked and finish as well as they do for the past 5-7 years while playing in the Big East, a conference that is/has been tough as nails? There are other teams in the same general area as Marq.
Click to expand...

Most agree the Big10 is better than the Big East this year.

BarnBurner said:
With a coach of Smith's stature and pay grade, in year 5, this should not be the status of the program. It should not be the expectations of the program.
Click to expand...

Tubby is the 5th highest paid coach in the Big10, with less facilities than any other school except Northwestern. I'd expect, based solely on pay grade, he should finish around 5th each year. He's been averaging a 7th place finish before this season. Based only on pay grade, this should be better.

BarnBurner said:
Does Wisconsin think they can win the conf every 3-4 years? I dont think so. Different expectations from fans and administration.
Click to expand...

Fan expectations don't make things reality, I'd be more upset that the administration doesn't put more of a commitment into it. You want 4 and 5 star recruits? Better get the facilities. Fans play a very small role in bringing those recruits in.
 

No doubt in my mind, EE has an NBA future. He looks just like the big men Dutcher used to bring in on a regular basis. They didn't go one and done. It took until their junior year before they became world beaters.
 

Stan said:
Why do we keep saying this team is young? Ralph is a senior, Rodney is a junior and may be in his last year, Welch is a junior, etc. Sure Hollins' and Mav are young, but the best players on our team are not young.
Click to expand...

But you don't play with just three players. With Mbakwe out, we are young. I looked at the B1G rosters of players who have averaged 10 minutes a game or more. Most ways you look at it, we are young.

The first column is the average number of years played coming into this year (FR=0, SR=3), second is percentage being upperclassmen, third is number of freshman, fourth is number of seniors.

<table border="1">
<tr> <td> Team </td> <td> Average </td> <td> % Upperclassmen </td> <td> FR </td> <td> SR </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> MN </td> <td> 1.0 </td> <td> 30% </td> <td> 4 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> ILL </td> <td> 1.4 </td> <td> 50% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> IA </td> <td> 1.6 </td> <td> 44% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Ind </td> <td> 1.8 </td> <td> 67% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 2 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Mich </td> <td> 1.5 </td> <td> 38% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 2 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Mich ST </td> <td> 1.6 </td> <td> 50% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> NE </td> <td> 2.3 </td> <td> 88% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 4 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> NW </td> <td> 1.8 </td> <td> 67% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Ohio ST </td> <td> 1.1 </td> <td> 22% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Penn ST </td> <td> 1.0 </td> <td> 22% </td> <td> 3 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Pur </td> <td> 1.6 </td> <td> 50% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> WI </td> <td> 2.0 </td> <td> 71% </td> <td> 0 </td> <td> 2 </td> </tr>
</table>


Interesting to look at in my opinion. We're the only team to have four freshmen average 10+ minutes a game. There's only one team with three (Penn St.). Everyone else is two or less. Wisconsin doesn't have any.

Edit: sorry, don't know why the post is kinda messed up
 

scher215 said:
Starting line up:
Mav (sophomore)
Rodney (junior)
Austin (sophomore)
Ralph (senior)
Julien (junior, playing BCS ball for the first time)

Chip (sophomore)
Hollins (freshman)
Oto (freshman)
Elliot (freshman)
Coleman (freshman)
Ingram (junior, playing div 1 ball for the first time)

That's 1 senior, and over half of the roster as underclass men. and only two players who've played more than 2 full seasons of big 10 basketball basketball.
Click to expand...

7 of our top 10 are underclassmen. I have no expectations for this season other than for them to play hard, bond & mature together. If we don't see a Sweet-16 out of this current group of underclassmen though next season or the season after, then I might be on board for a coaching change.
 

GophersInIowa said:
But you don't play with just three players. With Mbakwe out, we are young. I looked at the B1G rosters of players who have averaged 10 minutes a game or more. Most ways you look at it, we are young.

The first column is the average number of years played coming into this year (FR=0, SR=3), second is percentage being upperclassmen, third is number of freshman, fourth is number of seniors.

<table border="1">
<tr> <td> Team </td> <td> Average </td> <td> % Upperclassmen </td> <td> FR </td> <td> SR </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> MN </td> <td> 1.0 </td> <td> 30% </td> <td> 4 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> ILL </td> <td> 1.4 </td> <td> 50% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> IA </td> <td> 1.6 </td> <td> 44% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Ind </td> <td> 1.8 </td> <td> 67% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 2 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Mich </td> <td> 1.5 </td> <td> 38% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 2 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Mich ST </td> <td> 1.6 </td> <td> 50% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> NE </td> <td> 2.3 </td> <td> 88% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 4 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> NW </td> <td> 1.8 </td> <td> 67% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Ohio ST </td> <td> 1.1 </td> <td> 22% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Penn ST </td> <td> 1.0 </td> <td> 22% </td> <td> 3 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Pur </td> <td> 1.6 </td> <td> 50% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> WI </td> <td> 2.0 </td> <td> 71% </td> <td> 0 </td> <td> 2 </td> </tr>
</table>


Interesting to look at in my opinion. We're the only team to have four freshmen average 10+ minutes a game. There's only one team with three (Penn St.). Everyone else is two or less. Wisconsin doesn't have any.

Edit: sorry, don't know why the post is kinda messed up
Click to expand...

A picture's worth a thousands words.
 

howieramone said:
No doubt in my mind, EE has an NBA future. He looks just like the big men Dutcher used to bring in on a regular basis. They didn't go one and done. It took until their junior year before they became world beaters.
Click to expand...

100%. Read my mind. I'm old enough to remember Randy Brewer, Jim Peterson & some of those Dutcher bigs. That's exactly who he reminds me of & those types of bodies need a few years to develop. By the time he's a 23 year old Sr, he'll be a monster. I like that he's already got a solid hook shot. A coordinated, 7 footer with a dependable hook shot, should have a nice NBA career.
 

Some people on here are just unwilling to accept that there are players n his team that can develop into stars. Austin has shown vast improvement IMO from last year, I can't wait to watch him next year! EE I think will develop into a double double guy, and I'm excited to watch him play with Mo. Dre is an enigma for me. If the Gophers actually become fast paced he would be a terrific point, if they don't I'm not sure.
 

Next year anyone who shows up to play against EE and Mo better have their game face on.
 


scher215 said:
There is a pretty long list why not. Facilities for recruiting are a big one, IMO. When you recruit 4-year players, which Tubby does, they don't usually fully contribute until their junior year. Right now, due to transfers, they have oddly unbalanced classes.



Most agree the Big10 is better than the Big East this year.



Tubby is the 5th highest paid coach in the Big10, with less facilities than any other school except Northwestern. I'd expect, based solely on pay grade, he should finish around 5th each year. He's been averaging a 7th place finish before this season. Based only on pay grade, this should be better.

Fan expectations don't make things reality, I'd be more upset that the administration doesn't put more of a commitment into it. You want 4 and 5 star recruits? Better get the facilities. Fans play a very small role in bringing those recruits in.
Click to expand...


Lots of excuses, short on results. That is my point.

Big East is pretty damn good this year, as well. However - the example was the lat 5-7 years.
 

jamalo said:
Because there are no stars, but rather all role players. Is this some kind of joke?


Elite Eight:

PG; Mav and Dre
SG: Chip, Austin, Coleman
SF; Otto
PF: Mo
C: EE
Click to expand...

He was talking about last year's team with a full roster. Not this year.
 

Next year this, next year that. That sounds about right for GopherHole.
 

BigGopherFan said:
Next year this, next year that. That sounds about right for GopherHole.
Click to expand...
Not everyone likes being doom and gloom. Gotta find a positive when things don't live up to your expectations.
 

... and still no shooters or ball handlers, but I hope you are right in your thinking.
 

zambam said:
Not everyone likes being doom and gloom. Gotta find a positive when things don't live up to your expectations.
Click to expand...

It's like that permanent sign I saw outside a small town bar in Wisconsin: "Free Beer Tomorrow"
 

BarnBurner said:
So, Minnesota Basketball cant be expected to be in contention for the conference title more than every 4 years? Why is this the prevailing attitude?

How can Marquette, for example, be as highly ranked and finish as well as they do for the past 5-7 years while playing in the Big East, a conference that is/has been tough as nails? There are other teams in the same general area as Marq.

With a coach of Smith's stature and pay grade, in year 5, this should not be the status of the program. It should not be the expectations of the program.

Does Wisconsin think they can win the conf every 3-4 years? I dont think so. Different expectations from fans and administration.
Click to expand...

+1. Some of us that care deeply for Gopher basketball don't understand the willingness to accept such low expectations. If we express concern or criticism it's because we hope for so much more. And we remember when the Gophers we're positioned to at least contend for top-five B!G status and a plus .500 B1G record. Is that too much to ask, particularly from a coach pulling down a top-end paycheck? For Tubby, unfortunately, it appears to be a pretty high bar. Hasn't done it yet after four years. The Tubby apologists will continue with their excuses, but those excuses have grown pretty thin by now.
 

ghnewbie said:
+1. Some of us that care deeply for Gopher basketball don't understand the willingness to accept such low expectations. If we express concern or criticism it's because we hope for so much more. And we remember when the Gophers we're positioned to at least contend for top-five B!G status and a plus .500 B1G record. Is that too much to ask, particularly from a coach pulling down a top-end paycheck? For Tubby, unfortunately, it appears to be a pretty high bar. Hasn't done it yet after four years. The Tubby apologists will continue with their excuses, but those excuses have grown pretty thin by now.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone here WANTS to have low expectations for this team. They are just realistic.
 

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