G4 and Beej

[jamiche]

The vitriol is already over the top. I think you guys should pace yourselves so you don't run out of gas. Otherwise it will be a really long eight years for you.

BTW, how many repubs read the stimulus bill?

[bga1]

There is no vitriol. None. I am hoping for the best from Obama. His first month and first major bill are bad steps toward socialism. I don't think he's an idiot or unpatriotic or any other of the many names Bush was called. I think he's making some mistakes, bad ones.

Who read the bill? I can almost guarantee you that not one Senator or Representative either R or D read it prior to signing. Not one. It wasn't possible. Too big, too rushed and too partisan.

[jamiche]

Why didn't the repubs read it so that they could know what they were voting against?

[bga1]

Why didn't the repubs read it so that they could know what they were voting against?

Usually the book has to be made available in order for one to read it. In this case the ink was still drying on the pages and handwritten changes being made in the margins as they began to vote for it. Not to mention that it is something like 1800 pages long.

[UpnorthGo4]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiche View Post
Why didn't the repubs read it so that they could know what they were voting against?
Usually the book has to be made available in order for one to read it. In this case the ink was still drying on the pages and handwritten changes being made in the margins as they began to vote for it. Not to mention that it is something like 1800 pages long.
Reply With Quote


I hate to be the one to break it to you. There is nothing new here. This is typically the way bills are passed in Congress. Very few Congressmen or their staffs actually read bills prior to voting on them. Republicans are just as guilty as Democrats in this regard. Usually the only people who really know what is in the bill are the Congressman and staffers who were directly involved with drafting the bill.

[bga1]

I'm certain that's true G4UpNorth. But it's still not excusable. When you are about to spend 800 billion of the taxpayer's money there should be enough time for the bill to be properly gone through by the public and by the Congress. They seem to have plenty of time to look into steroid use in baseball, give out inane awards, investigate the previous administration and hang with lobbyists. There has got to be time to make sure we are not wasting away our future. This was slammed through not becasue of urgency but because they needed to pass it in the dark of night.

[jamiche]

I'm certain that's true G4UpNorth. But it's still not excusable. When you are about to spend 800 billion of the taxpayer's money there should be enough time for the bill to be properly gone through by the public and by the Congress. They seem to have plenty of time to look into steroid use in baseball, give out inane awards, investigate the previous administration and hang with lobbyists. There has got to be time to make sure we are not wasting away our future. This was slammed through not becasue of urgency but because they needed to pass it in the dark of night.

You reminded me that the congress almost shut down during the Terri Shiavo ignominy. Dr. Bill Frist diagnosed her by television (not sure I'd want to be one of his patients). Thirty or forty people surrounded by fifty TV cameras in Florida dominated "the peoples business" for about 10 days in 2005. I assume that you were pretty frustrated by that, beej, although I don't recall any posts by you criticizing what was going on.

[MNSnowman]

This was slammed through not becasue of urgency but because they needed to pass it in the dark of night.Yes, it was sneaked right past all the cable news outlets, the press, Republicans, the Talk Radio Right and our own bga et. al. They had no idea it was coming ... no idea at all. :p

We never heard about how the Stimulus Bill had various spending elements. Never heard that there was a reversal of the "trickle down" tax decrease philosophy. Never heard any details 'cause it was rushed through so quickly. All those speeches about how Republicans weren't consulted never occurred. All of bga's posturing was just a figment of imagination. Never happened. Never happened at all. :p

[bga1]

You reminded me that the congress almost shut down during the Terri Shiavo ignominy. Dr. Bill Frist diagnosed her by television (not sure I'd want to be one of his patients). Thirty or forty people surrounded by fifty TV cameras in Florida dominated "the peoples business" for about 10 days in 2005. I assume that you were pretty frustrated by that, beej, although I don't recall any posts by you criticizing what was going on.

I am constantly frustrated by Congress. I think we need single terms or at least a two term limit. It seems they rarely work on our behalf. Unfortunately Reid and Pelosi are the worst of the lot and they control things at the moment.

[jamiche]

I am constantly frustrated by Congress. I think we need single terms or at least a two term limit. It seems they rarely work on our behalf. Unfortunately Reid and Pelosi are the worst of the lot and they control things at the moment.

Were you frustrated by how congress stopped its work to get involved in the Shiavo situation, beej?

[Schnoodler]

From a republican standpoint Beeg, I would think you wouldn't be in favor of term limits for the house and senate. Reducing the experience level in those bodies is equivalent to reducing their power when balanced against the executive/beaurocractic of Washington. Essentially reducing the power of the state and passing that power to the white house and national institutions such as the federal reserve.

I would think a better informed public and better state level election rules to reduce the advantage of incumbents would be a more desirable tact from a republican standpoint. The goal from a republican standpoint should be to maximize the voice of the people from each state in washington. If we're worried about corruption, shouldn't we focus on fixing that system. we all know why the voices of the states get squelched in Washington. Money. It's not a difficult thing to figure out. Fix that, you're ideal of a republic gets enhanced. Put term limits in, you're ideal of a republic gets forever limited.

[Gopher4Life]

jamiche,

>>Were you frustrated by how congress stopped its work to get involved in the Shiavo situation...<<

How much work do you figure would have been accomplished had Congress not taken up the cause of Shiavo's parents vs her estranged husband? Would they have fixed Social Security, tightened our borders, improved our schools, prevented the need for ridiculous bailouts, or ended the war? I doubt that the Shiavo cause interfered with those projects in any way.

[jamiche]

jamiche,

>>Were you frustrated by how congress stopped its work to get involved in the Shiavo situation...<<

How much work do you figure would have been accomplished had Congress not taken up the cause of Shiavo's parents vs her estranged husband? Would they have fixed Social Security, tightened our borders, improved our schools, prevented the need for ridiculous bailouts, or ended the war? I doubt that the Shiavo cause interfered with those projects in any way.

So it was justified?

[Dr.Don]

G4L....you inquired about Social Security:

" Would they have fixed Social Security....?" There is nothing wrong with Social Security....my SS pay comes every month, and can you imagine what would have happened in the past 12 - 18 months if King George had gotten his way to encourage people to invest part in Wall Street? What has to be done, is that the amount paid into SS must be based on ALL earnings, and not have a top end. Then, cap the benefits. End of problem.

[Gopher4Life]

>>There is nothing wrong with Social Security...<<

I do hope it lasts for you. In the meantime, maybe you should pull your head out of your rear.

[bga1]

From a republican standpoint Beeg, I would think you wouldn't be in favor of term limits for the house and senate. Reducing the experience level in those bodies is equivalent to reducing their power when balanced against the executive/beaurocractic of Washington. Essentially reducing the power of the state and passing that power to the white house and national institutions such as the federal reserve.

I would think a better informed public and better state level election rules to reduce the advantage of incumbents would be a more desirable tact from a republican standpoint. The goal from a republican standpoint should be to maximize the voice of the people from each state in washington. If we're worried about corruption, shouldn't we focus on fixing that system. we all know why the voices of the states get squelched in Washington. Money. It's not a difficult thing to figure out. Fix that, you're ideal of a republic gets enhanced. Put term limits in, you're ideal of a republic gets forever limited.

I see your point as to the drawbacks Schnoodler. My concern is that we are attracting career politicians instead of public servants. As soon as they get in and figure out how they can extend their careers in the seat of power they seem to do it. They begin to vote in a direction that will allow them to get reelected rather than do what is right. Social security is just one example of this, immigration is another.

I am not one that tends to think the popular opinion is usually right on the issues. I would rather have the public vote for the character of the man and then let the man (or woman) represent them by doing what is right and in good character. The public is led by the nose by the press on issues and usually has it wrong, because they usually are fed the wrong information or simply don't pay attention.

[Gopher4Life]

jamiche,

"One useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress." - John Adams

I favored respecting the family's wish to keep her alive until there was no hope...as opposed to the estranged husband who had his own reasons for wanting to let her die. But that doesn't mean the US Congress should have stuck its ugly nose into the fray.

bga1,

>>The public is led by the nose by the press on issues...<<

I'm not sure that today's fairly naive and apathetic public is even aware of the press. They certainly don't read newspapers anymore. Maybe a few watch some TV, but sitcom re-runs and game shows dominate the evening news hour. They believe what they want to believe regardless of reality. Only when it becomes obvious that the Obama plan isn't working will they finally begin doubting.

[bigtenchamps1899]

i like turtles.