Marcus: Kill using same excuses as Brew in 2007

Some tweets from Marcus:

"Kill on radio today said the Gophers were not athletically gifted and mentally tough enough. So what do you do about that?"

"Kill said we have to play different kids and we have to recruit. That sounds just like Brewster's excuse in 2007. Always last coach's fault."

""It's not like the NFL when you can trade people," Kill said on WCCO this morning. Again, Brewster said the same thing his first year."

"Kill also said it's not one yr, two yr or three yr fix. So basically he's saying be patient until Yr 4 and Yr 5. What do you think of that?"

Go Gophers!!

Replace "Brewster and Kill" with every coach in America that has taken over a program.

MaxyJR1 said:

Replace "Brewster and Kill" with every coach in America that has taken over a program.

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PRESACTLY

when a coach gets fired, it's for a reason, and when a new coach takes over, it's always a job. (unless you're florida)

Kill makes a point about football players, Brew was hired to recruit better athletes than Mason, and he did.. but did he recruit better football players?.. clearly not. Brewster's top players (NFL) were probably: Weber, Decker, Tow-Arnett and Dom Barber, mix guys like Triplett and Campbell, all Mason recruits.

I think sometimes the fans and media are reading into what Jerry Kill says too much. I think he said the gophers aren't athletic enough and mentally tought enough because in his estimation they aren't. Plain and simple.

I don't get the impression this is a ploy to shift blame. Kill also said in the same interview that he's not doing a good enough job of getting more out of the current players.

Marcus is one of the worst writers in this town.

stevedave23 said:

I think sometimes the fans and media are reading into what Jerry Kill says too much. I think he said the gophers aren't athletic enough and mentally tought enough because in his estimation they aren't. Plain and simple.

I don't get the impression this is a ploy to shift blame. Kill also said in the same interview that he's not doing a good enough job of getting more out of the current players.

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People seem to forget or ignore that point. Kill has said pretty that same thing after every game this year.

GophersInIowa said:

People seem to forget or ignore that point. Kill has said pretty that same thing after every game this year.

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No one forgets this. We're just sick of hearing it as we watch the team regress from one week to the next. At some point, the man needs to show us he can coach, and by that I mean make the whole greater than the sum of it's parts. Good coaches have a way of doing this even in really bad situations.

The players that brewster recruited certainly haven't been better players than the players Mason recruited. The better players win MORE games. Otherwise, they are NOT better players.

Based upon the Big Ten w/l records, Mason recruited players were certainly better than brewster recruited players.

The record NEVER lies. Wins trump losses in Big Ten play.

; 0 )

Mason left Brew NOTHING, and don't try and tell me otherwise. I felt that Brew left Kill more talen than he found when he got here, but it has become clear now that it isn't the case.

I really feel we need to adapt to the fact that Jerry Kill is from southern Kansas and sometimes he's throwing some twangy b.s. at a hair-gelled student reporter he secretly wants to kick in the nuts.

imthewalrus said:

The players that brewster recruited certainly haven't been better players than the players Mason recruited. The better players win MORE games. Otherwise, they are NOT better players.

Based upon the Big Ten w/l records, Mason recruited players were certainly better than brewster recruited players.

The record NEVER lies. Wins trump losses in Big Ten play.

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The only feasible way to judge a recruiting class is to look at the number and quality of schools that were trying to recruit the same players. By that measure Brewster out recruited both Mason (last four years) and Kill (so far).

And it goes without saying that the standard for judging the quality of a recruiting class is entirely different from judging what a coach does with those recruits once he gets them on campus. When Mason was interested he could be a good offensive coach. But he was clueless on defense and his coaching with a lead in the 2nd half was pathetic on both sides of the ball.

Brewster's coaching was obviously a work in progress to say the least. I believe he would have gotten better and surpassed Mason if he wasn't fired. Kill has significantly underperformed in his first year with the Gophers. The lack of discipline on this team has been shocking with all their penalties and mental errors.

Brew beat Kill.
Still, I am pretty sure we didn't Monson'd on this deal...at least I hope we didn't get Monson'd.

GopherRock said:

Mason left Brew NOTHING, and don't try and tell me otherwise. I felt that Brew left Kill more talen than he found when he got here, but it has become clear now that it isn't the case.

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If you believe Dan Barreiro Mason left Brew with something and Brew left Kill with nothing.

Barreiro knows less about Gopher football than any sports writer or broadcaster in town. And almost everything that comes out of his mouth is colored with his own personal feelings about the coach or player he is talking about. He didn't like Brewster so it suits his radio show (with Mason as a regular guest) for Barreiro to denigrate Brewster in favor of Mason.

personally, i would chalk this up to marcus fuller trying to generate some mild "controversy" and attention to himself/his work. nothing to see here, imo.

jll62 said:

We're just sick of hearing it as we watch the team regress from one week to the next. At some point, the man needs to show us he can coach, and by that I mean make the whole greater than the sum of it's parts. Good coaches have a way of doing this even in really bad situations.

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USC looks like the fluke of the season. NDSU and Michigan have been the best teams on the schedule thus far. We my have regress, but the other team may have had something to do with it as well.

I am pretty convinced they beat Miami cause they knew that team and were able to pull out old notes. Staff is getting outcoached week in week out.

positively4thstreet said:

Marcus is one of the worst writers in this town.

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As if he is the problem. Nice try. Play again soon. No payout this time.

jll62 said:

No one forgets this. We're just sick of hearing it as we watch the team regress from one week to the next. At some point, the man needs to show us he can coach, and by that I mean make the whole greater than the sum of it's parts. Good coaches have a way of doing this even in really bad situations.

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When some are saying that "all Kill does is blame the players", then yes they are ignoring this. That's the point I was trying to make.

wait!what? said:

I am pretty convinced they beat Miami cause they knew that team and were able to pull out old notes. Staff is getting outcoached week in week out.

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Miami OH has a new staff this year. Not sure they ran the same stuff as last year. They are 0-4 and probably using the same excuses we are.

MaxyJR1 said:

Replace "Brewster and Kill" with every coach in America that has taken over a program.

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Actually and surprisingly no. Brewster took some heat for saying that Mason left him a lot of talent. On the Defensive side, even before the incident, that wasn't true. There was little talent on "D". On the Offensive side there was talent there until the injuries hit. Then the lack of depth was exposed. The lack of depth has existed around here for a whole lot of years.

Kill crossed the line big time when while saying that the previous coach had to "reach" for players then questioned the "mental ability" of his players. Tell me another college coach who's done that.

How about both coaches left their next coach with little to work with for their upcoming seasons. Neither were given a QB with any experience whatsoever and neither were given a defense that could even be considered acceptable. Those two factors alone create a "bare" cupboard IMO. You can't win without a decent QB and a poor defense. Brewster's team might have some more flash as far as pieces who can be considered physically at a high level, but as a whole, both coaches left the cupboard bare.

You can split hairs on which cupboard was more bare, but does it really matter? Either way the team's gonna struggle mightily with their next coach. I actually remember Brewster initially saying there was indeed talent in place and how he was excited cause it wasn't a complete rebuilding job. Then, once he started sucking, his tone changed. Kill has said since day 1 how he felt, and hasn't changed one bit. That's a very key difference between the two I think.

But most new coaches are gonna talk about a lack of talent on their new teams. Knowing you lack talent is one thing. Going out and actually bringing in and developing that talent is another. I have more confidence Kill knows a thing or two about that since he's at least been a head coach before and has a staff in place, unlike Brewster.

positively4thstreet said:

Marcus is one of the worst writers in this town.

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Wait, I thought Reusse, Souhan, Doogie, and Berriero were the worst? It's hard to keep track of which writers who correctly point out the Gophers suck right now can be trusted. I guess none of them can. They all have it in for the poor Gophs.

howeda7 said:

Wait, I thought Reusse, Souhan, Doogie, and Berriero were the worst? It's hard to keep track of which writers who correctly point out the Gophers suck right now can be trusted. I guess none of them can. They all have it in for the poor Gophs.

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Actually they're all better than Marcus. I'm just not a fan of his work. Some of his takes I see on Twitter imply that he doesn't know much about the sport(s) he covers. Just my opinion.

Monty519 said:

I actually remember Brewster initially saying there was indeed talent in place and how he was excited cause it wasn't a complete rebuilding job. Then, once he started sucking, his tone changed. Kill has said since day 1 how he felt, and hasn't changed one bit. That's a very key difference between the two I think.

.

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Good post Monty. I agree with you.


Kill actually coached against, prepared and beat the players he is now coaching. So when he said they were lacking talent, he was speaking from experience and not just saying it.

Monty519 said:

How about both coaches left their next coach with little to work with for their upcoming seasons. Neither were given a QB with any experience whatsoever and neither were given a defense that could even be considered acceptable. Those two factors alone create a "bare" cupboard IMO. You can't win without a decent QB and a poor defense. Brewster's team might have some more flash as far as pieces who can be considered physically at a high level, but as a whole, both coaches left the cupboard bare.

You can split hairs on which cupboard was more bare, but does it really matter? Either way the team's gonna struggle mightily with their next coach. I actually remember Brewster initially saying there was indeed talent in place and how he was excited cause it wasn't a complete rebuilding job. Then, once he started sucking, his tone changed. Kill has said since day 1 how he felt, and hasn't changed one bit. That's a very key difference between the two I think.

But most new coaches are gonna talk about a lack of talent on their new teams. Knowing you lack talent is one thing. Going out and actually bringing in and developing that talent is another. I have more confidence Kill knows a thing or two about that since he's at least been a head coach before and has a staff in place, unlike Brewster.

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Completely agree and I hope that Kill is the right choice. Talked about on this site last fall when his name came up but didn't think any school would consider him with his medical history. The lack of talent is certainly a good explanation for the Michigan loss. It's sounds like more of an alibi for the NMSU and NDSU losses.

I just get tired of hearing it and I'm a "support who ever is the coach" kind of guy. I was one of the saps that hoped Brewster could make it up until the NIU loss. I'll give Brewster some credit though, unlike Kill he never questioned a players "mental ability".

wait!what? said:

Brew beat Kill.

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You always say this, and always get corrected. Brew and Kill were 1:1. So, yes, Brew beat Kill, but Kill destroyed Brew.

Sorry people: NO mercy to ANY new coach...EVER.

Why the heck should new coaches cry about the talent that was left by the coach who was FIRED from the stinking job that the new coach is getting paid to take over? The new coach should have done due diligence work and the new coach had darn well better be coach enough to stand up tall and say: I totally take responsibility. I'm getting pretty disgusted of these new coaches who sign multi-million dollar contracts who don't figure out a way to just stand there and take what ever people say about them and their team and their program.

No mercy on ANY coach. The record of that coach will INCLUDE the first year record.

At the University of Minnesota it will be up to the first year coach to win as many games as possible. And, any first year coach who does NOT win at least one Big Ten Game is probably not going to make it past the fourth year without being fired. And then the coach who replaces that coach will NOT be able to complain about the lack of talent that the coach who was just fired left behind.

It is SO stupid to expect ANY talent to be left behind by a coach who failed and was fired from a program. Think about it for a while, people. Why the h was the coach fired? Because he couldn't win enough games and didn't have enough talent.

That is one of the problems with being a football program that tries to "fire" it's way to prosperity. There is ALWAYS going to be that non-productive and sometimes really devistating "first year" that is spent by coaches, administrators, media people and fans dumping "one more time" on that coach that "we" just fired and making excuses for this "new coach that we ALL just love and KNOW will have us winning championships in just a couple seasons. But, first, we have to get through that unfortunate first...all too often...WASTED season.

ANY coach who does not find an offense and defense that will best give their existing and returning players a chance to win at least one conference game in season number one is probably not a good enough coach to do anything except draw a nice pay check for four years and then be added to the "graveyard of coaching" reputation that a school who fires a LOT of coaches rightly developes over the decades.

NO mercy on these multi-million dollar coaches.

It is up to the new coach to FIND a way to win a Big Ten game or two in the first season. If not, I'd be willing to bet that coach won't survive...I wish Coach Kill and his staff the VERY best. Now, it is up to them to do the VERY best they can do in year number one with the players that they have NOW. No excuses. No hard luck stories Have the kids put the pads on and coach your ever loving hearts out! Beat Purdue.

Just the facts of life...and it is high time that we ALL recognize those facts of life. We have hired and fired entirely too many coaches around here. So, let's quit making excuses for the new kid in town. We have gone through this nonsense entirely too many times here. Man up coaches and get it done!

The other fact of life is that this is a tough job as is indicated by our reputation for being a graveyard for college coache's careers. We have hired too many coaches and we have fired too many coaches. We have fired some coaches who we NEVER should have fired and we have hired some coaches we NEVER should have hired. We have ONLY ourselves and the administrators at the University of Minnesota to blame. We most likely don't really deserve too much and we and our administrators are all guilty as hell of having been too quick to try to find the easier, softer way...you know...the "fire the damn coach way..." We have dug ourselves a VERY deep hole and yet, we all richly deserve to be where we are because of the way we have been. Maybe with a LOT of luck, hard work, good fortune and patience, we can make some improvements. Maybe... I certainy do hope so. But, try to be a little more humble and a little more patient and IF we get a coach who has us competing...let's be greatful and see what happens.

We don't have a very good track record do we?

; 0 )

Brewster inherited a 6 win team, Kill a 3 win team. Tell me how Kill inherited more? Who would you take now, Weber and Decker (low star players) or Gray and Green (4 star players). Face it, we all got fooled by the star system. Some of Brewster's recruits may have been slightly better at passing the "eye test," but that has nothing to do with being good football players.

It pains for me to type this, but in a small way I agree with Wren. Kill shouldn't get complete immunity because he is new. However, how a coach performs in his first year is not an indication of what kind of coach he is.

Mason's first year here he went 1-7 in the Big 10 and had a 31-0 loss to Iowa, a loss to a 2 win Hawaii team and a loss to Houston. That is a pretty ugly year.

It's almost identical to how Ferentz and Alvarez did in their first years (combined 0-16 in the Big 10).

I guess what I am saying is that when a coach takes over a program and it completely bottoms out like we are seeing, it's pretty run of the mill. It has happened to terrible coaches (Brew) and it has happened to great coaches (Barry), essentially....it tells us NOTHING. It's about as probative as saying "Coach Kill and Coach Brew both hate cottage cheese".