Inexcusable Loss....and Here is Why

Donate To GopherHole
B

BrewsterBooster

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
413
Reaction score
0
Points
16
The general mood after pathetic losses to NDSU and Michigan seems to be:
1) Coach Kill is a new coach and he deserves some time to institute his plans and systems over a few seasons. And he has some background in turning programs around. He will do it again.
2) The Gophers have a real talent gap with the rest of the B1G and it will take some time to recruit players with more speed and better attitudes.

Well, I call bull!

Let me illustrate it with some Gopher football history.

-In 1982 Joe Salem went 3-8 with one win in the Big Ten. Last place.
-In 1983 Salem went 1-10 with an 13-84 loss to Nebraska and a season ending 10-61 loss to Iowa. Last place. The program was probably at its all time low.

-In 1984 Lou Holtz took over the program. Recruiting had been very poor for three years running and the talent Holtz inherited was likely the worst in Gopher history. Holtz went 4-7 with a big upset win over Iowa.
-In 1985 Holtz went 6-5 with an Invitation to the Independence Bowl. He came within an eyelash of beating Oklahoma and Ohio State when those teams were ranked #3 in the country. At one point the Gophers were ranked #20 in the country. Just two seasons removed from being possibly the worst team in major conference D1 football.

While Holtz's teams did not have great overall talent (he did manage to bring in Ricky Foggie to play QB, someone comparable to Gray in raw talent), Holtz demanded effort and intensity. He demanded discipline. Absolutely would not have it any other way. And he got it or you were in the dog house. His teams played with toughness, physically and mentally.

Kill's team likely has more overall talent than Holtz had at Minnesota. What Kill does not have is discipline, intensity, effort and attitude. And that comes from the coaching staff. We were handled by NDSU and completely demolished in every way by Michigan. I guarantee you that would NEVER have happened to a Holtz coached team with the current level of talent. And that is my biggest concern. Kill may bluster, talk plainly and be more likable than Brewster, but his results are as bad if not worst than anything we saw in the Brewster era and maybe even the Salem era if things continue.

I am very concerned about HOW we are playing under our new coach and the DIRECTION we are headed.
 


4four4 said:
Holtz cheated.



Enough said.
Click to expand...


Well, if you look at what came of any Holtz accusations of cheating.....it was as close to nothing as you can get. Three minor violations. What penalty did MN get for anything Holtz may have done? Most people jump on the "Holtz cheated" bandwagon because they are mad that he left Minnesota after two years to take the Notre Dame job. If he had stayed and won....he would be beloved in MN. Enough said.
 

I've given every new coach plenty of time, including Brew - but have to admit I lost my faith in Kill & Co. during the New Mexico State game - it was amateur night on both offense and defense. Nothing since has changed my mind. I hope otherwise, but this team is lacking in discipline and intensity - and smarts. Only the running backs seem to give their all, play after play. The opening offensive gambit was just plain stupid. Run, run, pass, punt - as someone here put it.
 

BrewsterBooster said:
Well, if you look at what came of any Holtz accusations of cheating.....it was as close to nothing as you can get. Three minor violations. What penalty did MN get for anything Holtz may have done? Most people jump on the "Holtz cheated" bandwagon because they are mad that he left Minnesota after two years to take the Notre Dame job. If he had stayed and won....he would be beloved in MN. Enough said.
Click to expand...

Kind of like Clem? Because in my mind it is the same thing. Cheating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enough said.
 


Mason lost to one of the worst Hawaii teams in the history of college football in his first year...

Brewster lost to Florida-Atlantic in his first season... then went bowling the next season...
 

Very dissapointing game today but I'm not throwing in the towel yet. Bad signs yes but still early.

Coach Kill has shown in the past he can run a disciplined ship. Won't guarantee he can do it here but way too early to say he can't do it here.

What really disturbs me is Gopher Lady is posting here much less than 'the good old days'.

BTW to BrewsterBooster, a couple of my comments on chat were just throwing out cliches. Hope you didn't take it wrong.

BTW #2 Michigan unis looked much better than our 'underwear' uniforms.
 

Expectations were raised without cause because a new coach was hired. This team is no worse than last year. Take away a miracle win against Illinois and a win against an imploding Iowa squad and you have the same team. Last years squad lost to a bad IAA team and this year's to a good IAA team. What I would look for on this team, whether or not we win another game, is if the team improves. We did not see that under Brewster, will we see it under Kill?

For all the hype over Brew's recruiting acumen, he sure left this team with a load of manure. If he recruite talent, one would think the talent would transcend coaching and win a game now and again.
 

Swede said:
Expectations were raised without cause because a new coach was hired. This team is no worse than last year. Take away a miracle win against Illinois and a win against an imploding Iowa squad and you have the same team. Last years squad lost to a bad IAA team and this year's to a good IAA team. What I would look for on this team, whether or not we win another game, is if the team improves. We did not see that under Brewster, will we see it under Kill?

For all the hype over Brew's recruiting acumen, he sure left this team with a load of manure. If he recruite talent, one would think the talent would transcend coaching and win a game now and again.
Click to expand...

+19
 



Jerry Kill isn't Lou Holtz.
 

Good call. What a moron he is! He should have called the Easy TD Play in the first series!

Ridiculing play calling is the easiest, most common thing there is for a fan to do. It also reveals a great deal about the complainer, none of it positive. Keep calling those plays from the armchair, Uncle Rico.

The Gophers suck right now, and playcalling is not the problem. Michigan may have called run, run, pass to start the game as well. The difference is that their players are good, their plays go for big gains, and their coach looks like a genius.
 

Cobra said:
Jerry Kill isn't Lou Holtz.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Nor is he Kirk Ferentz or Barry Alvarez. I understand the desire to compare what's going on to history, but Kill is his own man, he's gonna do things how he wants them done, whether he ruffles some feathers now and suffers some bad losses along the way or whatever. He is committed to building this thing from the ground up, he's not looking for quick, temporary fixes. We'll see if he has the chops to get it done once again, but this game doesn't really sway me a whole lot either way. Losing Gray hurt the offense immensely, and Stoudermire being out didn't help that pass defense obviously. We'll see how things progress over the course of the year.
 

I appreciate the effort .... but c'mon. You can't seriously compare this year's team to teams 30 years ago. 30! Apples and oranges. Just because one coach did this or that with one team does not mean that it must be replicated to call this some sort of marker in the progression of a program. Kill very well may fail here (smart money would take that bet) but it has nothing to do with comparing him to what Lou and Joe S did years ago.
 



BrewsterBooster said:
The general mood after pathetic losses to NDSU and Michigan seems to be:
1) Coach Kill is a new coach and he deserves some time to institute his plans and systems over a few seasons. And he has some background in turning programs around. He will do it again.
2) The Gophers have a real talent gap with the rest of the B1G and it will take some time to recruit players with more speed and better attitudes.

Well, I call bull!

Let me illustrate it with some Gopher football history.

-In 1982 Joe Salem went 3-8 with one win in the Big Ten. Last place.
-In 1983 Salem went 1-10 with an 13-84 loss to Nebraska and a season ending 10-61 loss to Iowa. Last place. The program was probably at its all time low.

-In 1984 Lou Holtz took over the program. Recruiting had been very poor for three years running and the talent Holtz inherited was likely the worst in Gopher history. Holtz went 4-7 with a big upset win over Iowa.
-In 1985 Holtz went 6-5 with an Invitation to the Independence Bowl. He came within an eyelash of beating Oklahoma and Ohio State when those teams were ranked #3 in the country. At one point the Gophers were ranked #20 in the country. Just two seasons removed from being possibly the worst team in major conference D1 football.

While Holtz's teams did not have great overall talent (he did manage to bring in Ricky Foggie to play QB, someone comparable to Gray in raw talent), Holtz demanded effort and intensity. He demanded discipline. Absolutely would not have it any other way. And he got it or you were in the dog house. His teams played with toughness, physically and mentally.

Kill's team likely has more overall talent than Holtz had at Minnesota. What Kill does not have is discipline, intensity, effort and attitude. And that comes from the coaching staff. We were handled by NDSU and completely demolished in every way by Michigan. I guarantee you that would NEVER have happened to a Holtz coached team with the current level of talent. And that is my biggest concern. Kill may bluster, talk plainly and be more likable than Brewster, but his results are as bad if not worst than anything we saw in the Brewster era and maybe even the Salem era if things continue.

I am very concerned about HOW we are playing under our new coach and the DIRECTION we are headed.
Click to expand...


Is that you Tim ? Overall more talent now than in Holtz 1st year ??? 2011 - only eleven redshirt seniors, includes 3 walk-ons and two walk-on transfers. Eight play but two should not be. 29 true freshman and 23 redshirt freshman (52 total) listed on a squad of 118, more freshman than seniors and juniors - 41 total. Total freshman and sophomores on current squad is 77, 65% of the squad. Kill's team very unlikely to have more overall talent than Holtz had, at 65% freshman and sophomores experience level less than Holtz. Brewster's habit of giving scholarships to best friends of a targeted recruit and then not getting target recruit has left us with several under qualified players.
 

Rhinegator said:
Is that you Tim ? Overall more talent now than in Holtz 1st year ??? 2011 - only eleven redshirt seniors, includes 3 walk-ons and two walk-on transfers. Eight play but two should not be. 29 true freshman and 23 redshirt freshman (52 total) listed on a squad of 118, more freshman than seniors and juniors - 41 total. Total freshman and sophomores on current squad is 77, 65% of the squad. Kill's team very unlikely to have more overall talent than Holtz had, at 65% freshman and sophomores experience level less than Holtz. Brewster's habit of giving scholarships to best friends of a targeted recruit and then not getting target recruit has left us with several under qualified players.
Click to expand...

Listen, Rhinegator, I have attended a lot of Gopher football games and I watched the talent on the field Joe Salem's last couple years and it was pitiful. I was absolutely stunned at how quickly Holtz turned the Gophers into a compeitive team. My friends were amazed. I agree with brewsterbooser (by the way, is that a joke moniker?) that this team has more talent than Hotlz inherited. Holtz was just relentless about execution and giving effort. His energy level and focus on mental toughness was unique. I think what brewster booster is saying is not that Kill is a bad coach, but that this coaching staff can do a lot better with the players they have and Holtz is an example of that right here at MN. I agree with him.
 

Honyocker said:
Listen, Rhinegator, I have attended a lot of Gopher football games and I watched the talent on the field Joe Salem's last couple years and it was pitiful. I was absolutely stunned at how quickly Holtz turned the Gophers into a compeitive team. My friends were amazed. I agree with brewsterbooser (by the way, is that a joke moniker?) that this team has more talent than Hotlz inherited. Holtz was just relentless about execution and giving effort. His energy level and focus on mental toughness was unique. I think what brewster booster is saying is not that Kill is a bad coach, but that this coaching staff can do a lot better with the players they have and Holtz is an example of that right here at MN. I agree with him.
Click to expand...

You're talking about football 30 years ago...Offenses & Defenses have changed & Speed is more important then ever right now & we have none of it on either side of the ball...
 

Listen Rhinegator ? (Yes, it is a joke moniker but aren't they all) I have attended football games back to the Murray area and saw him turn around a program after being almost fired. I also saw Holtz turn around a program but in my opinion he had a squad with more experience and maturity than the current squad. My point and opinion. I agree with Rhinegator.
 

I agree 100%. some people are not old enough to know, but some of us saw what is possible with a quality coach (Holtz,) and he was magic. It was evident from Holtz's first season how quickly the team became disciplined, intense, capable. I like coach Kill just like I appreciated coach Wacker, they're good people (yes I know Wacker has passed on). But so far the product coach kill has put on the field with way more talent than Holtz had, is by far worse. Coach Holtz and his assistants (schemes, play calling) mane kill and his staff look like high school coaches, and not very good ones. Thanks Lou Holtz for giving us two years of service, as we know what's possible.
 

gopherguy said:
I agree 100%. some people are not old enough to know, but some of us saw what is possible with a quality coach (Holtz,) and he was magic. It was evident from Holtz's first season how quickly the team became disciplined, intense, capable. I like coach Kill just like I appreciated coach Wacker, they're good people (yes I know Wacker has passed on). But so far the product coach kill has put on the field with way more talent than Holtz had, is by far worse. Coach Holtz and his assistants (schemes, play calling) mane kill and his staff look like high school coaches, and not very good ones. Thanks Lou Holtz for giving us two years of service, as we know what's possible.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that.
 

After yesterday's game I was thinking the exact same thing regarding the Salem to Holtz transition. I actually played on both teams and Holtz told us that he was originally concerned about the talent he was inheriting and he told us numerous times that it was as good as what he worked with at Arkansas. He of course could have been blowing smoke but he said it numerous times. The '83 team was riddled with injuries, and we played many, many freshman, which probably helped Holtz's first year. The one thing Hotlz brought was a system that stressed fundimentals and not giving up the big play. The next thing that was so important was that Hotz preached actually worked on the field right away and that gave us enough confidence to build on. If what Kill is preaching in practice in NOT being trasferred onto the field then the message gets lost and lost fast.

It could take much longer for them to buy in if they don't see some results on the field.
 

station19 said:
Very dissapointing game today but I'm not throwing in the towel yet. Bad signs yes but still early.

Coach Kill has shown in the past he can run a disciplined ship. Won't guarantee he can do it here but way too early to say he can't do it here.

What really disturbs me is Gopher Lady is posting here much less than 'the good old days'.

BTW to BrewsterBooster, a couple of my comments on chat were just throwing out cliches. Hope you didn't take it wrong.

BTW #2 Michigan unis looked much better than our 'underwear' uniforms.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to disturb you! I think the Brewster years just really took a lot out of me. I got tired of fighting the same fight about him, as it didn't take me long to figure him out....and with all the people obsessed with him, and unable to see who he really was, or always asking for inside source examples (which I could never give, or I would have no sources) - it just got frustrating. I feel the same way about my views on Maturi, which I've pretty much had since 2006, and you kind of get exhausted saying the same thing over and over.

I've learn to keep my views, and a lot of my examples, to my closer circle. It doesn't mean I'm not a big of a Gopher fan, I probably give even more of my time to the Gophers now that I ever had....just means I don't like arguing the same points over and over.
 

Swede said:
Expectations were raised without cause because a new coach was hired. This team is no worse than last year. Take away a miracle win against Illinois and a win against an imploding Iowa squad and you have the same team. Last years squad lost to a bad IAA team and this year's to a good IAA team. What I would look for on this team, whether or not we win another game, is if the team improves. We did not see that under Brewster, will we see it under Kill?

For all the hype over Brew's recruiting acumen, he sure left this team with a load of manure. If he recruite talent, one would think the talent would transcend coaching and win a game now and again.
Click to expand...

This. You aren't going to win many games playing so many young players. You need seniors to win games and we they are less talented than the freshman we have. Wait and see for now and hope we see some improvement by the end of the year to get all of our expectations back to rosebowl level like they were earlier this year.
 

Just because Holtz came in and improved the Gophers record in the first year doesn't mean that it is rational to expect that out of every coach in their first year.
 

I agree with a lot of the comments here, but the bottom line is Kill has to show at least by year 3 that this team has greatly improved and heading in the right direction. If there is no or very little progress by year 3 then Kill will be gone.
 

GopherLady said:
I'm sorry to disturb you! I think the Brewster years just really took a lot out of me. I got tired of fighting the same fight about him, as it didn't take me long to figure him out....and with all the people obsessed with him, and unable to see who he really was, or always asking for inside source examples (which I could never give, or I would have no sources) - it just got frustrating. I feel the same way about my views on Maturi, which I've pretty much had since 2006, and you kind of get exhausted saying the same thing over and over.I've learn to keep my views, and a lot of my examples, to my closer circle. It doesn't mean I'm not a big of a Gopher fan, I probably give even more of my time to the Gophers now that I ever had....just means I don't like arguing the same points over and over.
Click to expand...

Give Wren a holler Gopher Lady. He can help you out with this.
 

Some survival tactics for the remainder of the season.

1.) Don't watch the away games on tv, turn on the radio, rake leaves, focus on something else and use it as background noise.

2.) Don't read the Sunday morning sports.

3.) Enjoy the home games for the weather and the fact you are outside, get up and get hot dogs a couple of times durring the game, take your time getting back to your seat.

Repeat process next year, and hope that by year three things will be watchable again.
 

gold82 said:
After yesterday's game I was thinking the exact same thing regarding the Salem to Holtz transition. I actually played on both teams and Holtz told us that he was originally concerned about the talent he was inheriting and he told us numerous times that it was as good as what he worked with at Arkansas. He of course could have been blowing smoke but he said it numerous times. The '83 team was riddled with injuries, and we played many, many freshman, which probably helped Holtz's first year. The one thing Hotlz brought was a system that stressed fundimentals and not giving up the big play. The next thing that was so important was that Hotz preached actually worked on the field right away and that gave us enough confidence to build on. If what Kill is preaching in practice in NOT being trasferred onto the field then the message gets lost and lost fast.

It could take much longer for them to buy in if they don't see some results on the field.
Click to expand...

This is the comment of the month. From a player. From a winner. Thank you.
 

Swede said:
Expectations were raised without cause because a new coach was hired. This team is no worse than last year. Take away a miracle win against Illinois and a win against an imploding Iowa squad and you have the same team. Last years squad lost to a bad IAA team and this year's to a good IAA team. What I would look for on this team, whether or not we win another game, is if the team improves. We did not see that under Brewster, will we see it under Kill?

For all the hype over Brew's recruiting acumen, he sure left this team with a load of manure. If he recruite talent, one would think the talent would transcend coaching and win a game now and again.
Click to expand...

+100
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom