If Kill now has 26 signed for

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calminnfan

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2011, I wonder if someone is not making it or has to gray shirt? If so, who is it?
 

No. At least 3 of those (maybe more) can be counted back to the 2010 class, as we only had 22 (maybe less, not sure) signees that year. If they enroll in January, they can count back to the previous year. Rabe, Harris, and Jones (at least) all started in January, so they can be counted back toward 2010's numbers.

Also, there's no definitive answer as to whether Crawford is coming or not, so if he can't/doesn't enroll, they will still be at 25 anyway.
 

dpodoll68 said:
No. At least 3 of those (maybe more) can be counted back to the 2010 class, as we only had 22 (maybe less, not sure) signees that year. If they enroll in January, they can count back to the previous year. Rabe, Harris, and Jones (at least) all started in January, so they can be counted back toward 2010's numbers.

Also, there's no definitive answer as to whether Crawford is coming or not, so if he can't/doesn't enroll, they will still be at 25 anyway.
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Didn't realize 3 could be rolled back to 2010...thanks. Was curious about Crawford as well. Gives kill a little room to sign 3 more actually if he wants to.

Part of the reason I was mentioning this is the signing of a 2nd QB. Made me wonder about Shortell, but there is also speculation the new signee may end up at another position.
 

I think it's entirely that Foreman is a completely different kind of QB than Shortell, Nelson, Parish or Alipate.

Kill seems to like to use a QB in super Wild Cat mode where he plays certain offensive schemes. Northern Illinois had a 3rd string/Wild Cat QB who ran for 400 yards (in a wild cat mode not as the backup QB).

Another reason is that Kill could have thought of Foreman in a similar light to how he had been looking at recruit Dual Threat QB Robert Gregory. Kill and his staff could have looked at Foreman as a similar prospect to Gregory and used the whole "bird in the hand" philosophy. MV talks about this at FBT.

Lastly, I think you are right that if push comes to shove, this kid could be moved to a variety of different positions. He could be fast enough to eventually be a WR or S and he is already 200 lbsish (i've seen it from 195 to 210)...so he could definitely add weight and become a TE. But, I do think his moving positions wouldn't be our first way to think of using this kid.
 

calminnfan said:
Didn't realize 3 could be rolled back to 2010...thanks. Was curious about Crawford as well. Gives kill a little room to sign 3 more actually if he wants to.

Part of the reason I was mentioning this is the signing of a 2nd QB. Made me wonder about Shortell, but there is also speculation the new signee may end up at another position.
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I think you always want 6 QBs on the roster. We've now got 2 juniors, a sophomore, a redshirt freshman and two freshman that we redshirt. With Nelson coming in next season, we redshirt him. In 2013 we the have a Senior, a redshirt Junior, two redshirt sophomores, a redshirt freshman and bring in another freshman. That' s a perfectly planned "spread" IMO. I think this just reiterates that Shortell is not playing a down in 2011.
 




highwayman said:
I think you always want 6 QBs on the roster. We've now got 2 juniors, a sophomore, a redshirt freshman and two freshman that we redshirt. With Nelson coming in next season, we redshirt him. In 2013 we the have a Senior, a redshirt Junior, two redshirt sophomores, a redshirt freshman and bring in another freshman. That' s a perfectly planned "spread" IMO. I think this just reiterates that Shortell is not playing a down in 2011.
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I think your idea makes sense, but at least two of our existing quartebacks do not fit the system at all.
 

dpodoll68 said:
No. At least 3 of those (maybe more) can be counted back to the 2010 class, as we only had 22 (maybe less, not sure) signees that year. If they enroll in January, they can count back to the previous year. Rabe, Harris, and Jones (at least) all started in January, so they can be counted back toward 2010's numbers.

Also, there's no definitive answer as to whether Crawford is coming or not, so if he can't/doesn't enroll, they will still be at 25 anyway.
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I think 2 could be counted toward's last years class. We had 24 players in 2010 class that qualified and enrolled (rivals shows 26 signed - but subtract Tillman, Thornton, and M. Hill and add L. Simpson). Christyn Lewis and Tiree Eure, who enrolled early, should have counted toward previous year. That would leave 3 spots for 2010, but Aaron Hill would have also been an initial counter as he was awarded scholarship last season, leaving just 2 spots (Austin Hahn had already been on campus for 2 years so when he was awarded scholarship it would only counted towards total count of 85, but not toward the annual 25 initial counter number).

If Crawford makes it back we would have 27 for 2011 class (including Chris Hawthorne). As already mentioned, 2 of those should count toward last year meaning 2011 should now be full at 25 unless any of our recruits fail to qualify - which things are already up in the air for 1 (Crawford).

So we should be good for annual 25 initial counters, but question is still in air for max total of 85 - as we would have 88 right now if you included Crawford and also Eure's, Hill's and Hahn's scholly's.
 





McDonald is NOT a signee...he's a verbal commit

Not to split hairs, but Andre McDonald is a 2012 "verbal". He cannot sign his LOI until next February, methinks. I'm just sayin'...
 

Present Number of Scholarship

AShreve20 said:
I think 2 could be counted toward's last years class. We had 24 players in 2010 class that qualified and enrolled (rivals shows 26 signed - but subtract Tillman, Thornton, and M. Hill and add L. Simpson). Christyn Lewis and Tiree Eure, who enrolled early, should have counted toward previous year. That would leave 3 spots for 2010, but Aaron Hill would have also been an initial counter as he was awarded scholarship last season, leaving just 2 spots (Austin Hahn had already been on campus for 2 years so when he was awarded scholarship it would only counted towards total count of 85, but not toward the annual 25 initial counter number).

If Crawford makes it back we would have 27 for 2011 class (including Chris Hawthorne). As already mentioned, 2 of those should count toward last year meaning 2011 should now be full at 25 unless any of our recruits fail to qualify - which things are already up in the air for 1 (Crawford).

So we should be good for annual 25 initial counters, but question is still in air for max total of 85 - as we would have 88 right now if you included Crawford and also Eure's, Hill's and Hahn's scholly's.
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AShreve20 - You seem quite certain of your numbers and I certainly don't know that they are not correct, but the following facts make me question your certainty with your numbers:

1. As far as I know nobody on this board has been able to say for certain how many players presently have scholarships and who they are. This information is considered to private.

2. During spring practice Coach Kill stated that they had a couple of unfilled scholarships available. This would imply that there were at 83 players with scholarships this spring. Kill went on to say that these two unfilled scholarships would only be filled if they found the right recruits. Since they did find two recruits that meet this requirement, they offered both of them scholarships. My math would tell me that we now have 85 scholarships players (83+2=85). What I don't know is whether Hill and Hahn received their scholarships after Kill made the above statements but if that is not the case, your numbers are not consistnet with what Kill stated. Can you explain to me what happen to those two unfiled scholarships? Were they filled by Hill and Hahn? Were they filled by somebody else? Did coach Kill misspeak when he said there were two unfilled slots?

3. Let's assume that you analysis of the U having 87 scholarships above is correct. (I did not include Crawford since he has not yet qualified for one.) That would mean the U would need to reduce the number of players presently holding scholarships by two before they could sign Foreman and Moulton. My assumption is that you have to have an actual open slot before you can give a new player a scholarship. I have hard time believing that Kill would award two new scholarships if they were not presently available.

What I am suggesting is that there are a lot of assumptions being used as to what the situation is and that these assumptions are not always backed up by the facts or logic. I am sure all this will sort itself out but necessarily the way people assume it well.
 



AShreve20 said:
I think 2 could be counted toward's last years class. We had 24 players in 2010 class that qualified and enrolled (rivals shows 26 signed - but subtract Tillman, Thornton, and M. Hill and add L. Simpson). Christyn Lewis and Tiree Eure, who enrolled early, should have counted toward previous year. That would leave 3 spots for 2010, but Aaron Hill would have also been an initial counter as he was awarded scholarship last season, leaving just 2 spots (Austin Hahn had already been on campus for 2 years so when he was awarded scholarship it would only counted towards total count of 85, but not toward the annual 25 initial counter number).

If Crawford makes it back we would have 27 for 2011 class (including Chris Hawthorne). As already mentioned, 2 of those should count toward last year meaning 2011 should now be full at 25 unless any of our recruits fail to qualify - which things are already up in the air for 1 (Crawford).

So we should be good for annual 25 initial counters, but question is still in air for max total of 85 - as we would have 88 right now if you included Crawford and also Eure's, Hill's and Hahn's scholly's.
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EDIT: I also believe that Beal would have had to count as initial counter last year as well. If I am correct in all this analysis that would mean only 1 spot open in last years class for early enrollee in 2011 class. If accurate, that would mean there would not be room for Crawford to enroll this fall, unless there was another incoming recruit that doesn't qualify, or gray shirts, or doesn't make it on campus for some other reason or another. That could potentially mean Kill isn't expecting Crawford to make it back which led him to bring in one of the extra late signee's for 2011.
 

Killjoy said:
AShreve20 - You seem quite certain of your numbers and I certainly don't know that they are not correct, but the following facts make me question your certainty with your numbers:

1. As far as I know nobody on this board has been able to say for certain how many players presently have scholarships and who they are. This information is considered to private.

2. During spring practice Coach Kill stated that they had a couple of unfilled scholarships available. This would imply that there were at 83 players with scholarships this spring. Kill went on to say that these two unfilled scholarships would only be filled if they found the right recruits. Since they did find two recruits that meet this requirement, they offered both of them scholarships. My math would tell me that we now have 85 scholarships players (83+2=85). What I don't know is whether Hill and Hahn received their scholarships after Kill made the above statements but if that is not the case, your numbers are not consistnet with what Kill stated. Can you explain to me what happen to those two unfiled scholarships? Were they filled by Hill and Hahn? Were they filled by somebody else? Did coach Kill misspeak when he said there were two unfilled slots?

3. Let's assume that you analysis of the U having 87 scholarships above is correct. (I did not include Crawford since he has not yet qualified for one.) That would mean the U would need to reduce the number of players presently holding scholarships by two before they could sign Foreman and Moulton. My assumption is that you have to have an actual open slot before you can give a new player a scholarship. I have hard time believing that Kill would award two new scholarships if they were not presently available.

What I am suggesting is that there are a lot of assumptions being used as to what the situation is and that these assumptions are not always backed up by the facts or logic. I am sure all this will sort itself out but necessarily the way people assume it well.
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1) We know who the recruited scholarship players are. What we don't know for certain of the former walk-ons who were awarded scholarships - if those scholarships were renewed. Public also doesn't know for sure if someone has left the program (even Eure hasn't been 100% confirmed to my knowledge at least), or freshman that won't qualify.

2) When I counted to 88 (87 w/o Crawford) I did assume that all former walk-ons who had previously earned a scholarship still had them renewed, which may or may not be accurate. There were reports made to public that walk-on's Klitzke, Rallis, Hahn, and Hill had earned scholarships. I don't remember exactly when Rallis and Klitzke were given their scholarships, but I know Hahn and Hill were awarded scholarships last fall camp based on news articles. I don't know that they were renewed for these players. I'd speculate that Rallis still has his, and I'd have to think it's not a greatest idea for Kill to not renew the others. But is very possible i guess that they weren't all renewed, which would explain the openings. I don't think we'll know for sure if those players still have scholly's unless it is reported again. For now we can only speculate.

3) My main point I guess is that IF Hahn, Hill, Klitzke, Rallis all had their scholly's renewed, then obviously that would mean academic casualties, transfers, gray shirt plans, incoming recruits not qualified, or something along those lines that Kill knows about that we don't. Or simply those walk-ons don't have scholly's any longer keeping overall counter at 85 or less. But it's got to be one of those two options, or combination of the two. That is the mystery from my perspective. I can't speak for what Kill was referring to in regards to open spots.

I agree that there are some assumptions being made. As far as logic/facts, we know there are currently 60 players on current roster at gophersports.com that were recruited scholarship players. There are an additional 2 transfers on roster with scholarships (Hawthorne and Beal - it's been reported Hawthorne was offered scholly, and I'm pretty certain Beal has one too - I guess you could call Beal’s status an assumption on my part, but a pretty safe one I'd say). There are an additional 21 recruits that signed LOI to play football for Gophers that are currently not on campus. And there are 4 former walk-ons who were awarded scholarship at some point and may or may not still have those scholarships renewed for upcoming academic season. If you add up those numbers that equals 87.

Like you suggest...it will probably work its way out somehow. It just makes things curious right now from our perspective, although I'm sure coaching staff knows what's up.
 


nc2mn said:
Look again. As someone already said, rivals has Andre Mcdonald as a 4 star.
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The OP said 2011 not 2012.

dpodoll68 said:
Yes. Tommy Olson was a 4-star on ESPN.
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Like anyone uses ESPN rankings.:rolleyes: I use Rivals and only Rivals, picking and choosing which ranking you use based on who ranked your guys higher is dumb.
 

Ski U Master said:
Like anyone uses ESPN rankings.:rolleyes: I use Rivals and only Rivals, picking and choosing which ranking you use based on who ranked your guys higher is dumb.
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I agree, I only use Rivals as well. If someone asked me if we had any 4-stars last year, I'd say no. But, technically, we did have one 4-star as ranked by ESPN. The question did not specify Rivals 4-stars.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I agree, I only use Rivals as well. If someone asked me if we had any 4-stars last year, I'd say no. But, technically, we did have one 4-star as ranked by ESPN. The question did not specify Rivals 4-stars.
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But ratings don't matter.
 

Plus...

dpodoll68 said:
I agree, I only use Rivals as well. If someone asked me if we had any 4-stars last year, I'd say no. But, technically, we did have one 4-star as ranked by ESPN. The question did not specify Rivals 4-stars.
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As we have seen, early commits tend not to be revisited and have their ratings adjusted. Mostly.
 

If Tommy Olsen is only a 3*. and that is what rivals has him at. I want all the 3* like hime I can get. This kid will be a 3 or 4 year starter and will be a beast in the the big 10. :clap:
 

I googled a scholarship grid that still lists Brent Singleton as on the team, but didn't he leave the team? Maybe that's one of the open spots?
 

dpodoll68 said:
No. At least 3 of those (maybe more) can be counted back to the 2010 class, as we only had 22 (maybe less, not sure) signees that year. If they enroll in January, they can count back to the previous year. Rabe, Harris, and Jones (at least) all started in January, so they can be counted back toward 2010's numbers.

Also, there's no definitive answer as to whether Crawford is coming or not, so if he can't/doesn't enroll, they will still be at 25 anyway.
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I believe Campion enrolled in January as well.
 

btowngopher said:
I googled a scholarship grid that still lists Brent Singleton as on the team, but didn't he leave the team? Maybe that's one of the open spots?
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He's still on the team as far as I know. He's still listed on the official roster.
 

btowngopher said:
I googled a scholarship grid that still lists Brent Singleton as on the team, but didn't he leave the team? Maybe that's one of the open spots?
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I think you are thinking of Willie Tatum. I know that those two guys reminded me of one another (SIngleton and Tatum) and Tatum is no longer on the team.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I think you are thinking of Willie Tatum. I know that those two guys reminded me of one another (SIngleton and Tatum) and Tatum is no longer on the team.
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Yeah sorry about that, I did confuse the two.
 


Singleton was actually the other academic casualty from this spring, along with Eure.
 


Well now it appears that Eskridge was the mystery spot.
 

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