Will the Gophers ever win another Big Ten title?

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do you think Kill can get it done, when will we see another one in our life time.
 




Unregistered User said:
That would be the attitude of a fan who's team is 0 for 120 years in winning National Championships.
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Wow. I was saying that to win a National Title you're going to want to win the B10 first. But Ok, I'm totally devastated that my football program will never match up to the excellence that is Gopher Football.
 


Of course the Gophers will win another Big 10 title sometime. Whether or not you'll see it in your lifetime is mostly dependent on how long you're going to live. This is a silly question.
 



If we could luck into a great QB and have an average Big Ten Defense it could happen anytime (like this year) but great QB's have been few and far between in Minnesota. If Mason would have had an average defense we'd have been to two Rosebowls.
 



RedPoo said:
Of course the Gophers will win another Big 10 title sometime. Whether or not you'll see it in your lifetime is mostly dependent on how long you're going to live. This is a silly question.
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It probably depends on how long we live. Vanderbilt has never won an SEC title and I doubt they ever will (I understand that ever is a long time though). It is also possible, but very doubtful, that the Big 10 could dissolve, or become a part of some Super Conference before we win another title. So its not a completely silly question IMHO.
 

Kill's style of offense can beat any team on any Saturday. I was at the rose bowl for the TCU/badger game. His coaching staff and Kill can get a team bowl eligible quick, then b-10, rose bowl , then if the stars align, yes. The last 18 years of Badger football has been fun and Kill can do that quickly. Keep the faith, and support the new regime. He will run a clean, tuff, no shortcut to glory program. Can You ask for anymore?
 

In 1993, i would have told you that Northwestern could not ever win a big ten title. It seemed ridiculous. Yet by 96 they had one and have won another (two?) since. It is hard to win a big ten title but not impossible. With good luck Mason wins one or two.
 

It won't be easy and it won't be soon. It may not even happen under coach Kill, but perhaps his successor (Limegrover?), IF Minnesota can establish itself as a big city Nebraska, an urban athletic power, with a lot to offer in terms of not only education, but entertainment, future job prospects, diversity, etc.
 




It will happen some day. I don't know when. But it will happen. That will be a great day.
 

"Ever?" Yes.

Current conditions are by no means 'permanent'.

SMU was a power when they had Dickerson & James. Then they got hit with the 'death penalty'; they haven't recovered yet.

We don't know what the NCAA will do to Ohio State. If the USC case is any indication - and we don't know if it is - Ohio State could be in very serious trouble.

Ohio State's misfortune presents opportunity to the rest of the conference.
 


One of my best friends in high school used to have a saying -

If you asked him about the chances of something happening, he would say:

"There's a 50-50 chance of that. Either it will happen, or it won't. That's a 50-50 chance!"

That's about how I feel on the Gopher FB team.

Sure, there's a chance they will win a big 10 title at some point. But, realistically, there's a chance they won't.

I think that after this season, we'll have a better feel for where the program is heading under Kill, but it might take 3-4 years, or more, to get a true gauge on the program. I get the sense that Kill's system is very player-specific - he needs very specific types of players to run his schemes, and it may take a while to recruit the type of players he needs.

But at least he has a plan.
 


That we haven't won a Big Ten championship since 1967 isn't evidence that we won't win one. The dome was a disadvantage, but it's gone. The U has made hiring mistakes, and although I am optimistic, it remains to be seen if we have made the right hire. There are schools that have real built-in disadvantages, but there is no reason that we can't do what Iowa and Wisconsin have been able to do. In the past, they were pretty much in the same boat we have been in.
 

IF they don't find a way to clean college football up...

the NCAA will collapse and a formation of about 20 to 28 super powers will leave their current conferences and the NCAA and will form their own governing body and will in essence market themselves as THE alternative to the nfl. WILL it happen? Maybe not. BUT...maybe it could...

; 0 )

As the NCAA is forced to come after the USC, Ohio State, Auburn, Oregon wrong-doers, cheaters and other programs who believe, along with their fans that NO ONE has the right to mess with their football program, some will likely exert GREAT pressure to fight the NCAA. It will most likely be these "come to Jesus" messages currently being sent out by the NCAA to formerly "untouchable" programs that will fuel the anger, wrath, passion and reactive backlash by the fans who have always felt entitled and may even start seeking a break from the NCAA.

It might happen, and if it does, there will be questions of "anti-trust" violations. Politicians from the great states of Texas, Alabama, Florida, California, Georgia, Tennessee, Ohio, Oregon, Nebraska, Michigan, and a few other places might happily side with the outraged fans, a few ADs, some renegade college prexys in looking into anti-trust action against the NCAA. Most likely...the NCAA would face much opposition in such a power-struggle, especially if anti-trust power questions arise. All the major conferences might have defections.

Would the same thing happen with the college hoops powers? Perhaps the Road to the Final Four may become a road "less travelled..." for some of the traditional basketball powers.

This is the risk the NCAA takes for starting to crack down on BIG TIME football powers such as USC and THE Ohio State University.

The NCAA is now officially "...damned if they do and damned if they don't..." take on the cheating, corruption and pretty obvious kinds of dishonesty and chaos caused by boosters that now troubles the NCAA College Football goldmine. The college and university prexys don't have a clue what the price of going up against big time college football programs and taking away their scholarships, recruiting visits, bowl games, BCS elegibility, etc will be to the NCAA. But, the NCAA has NO choice. The corruption, cheating, ties to crime that some of the big-time boosters appear to have, agent involvement andjsut plain too much big money has been causing is surfacing in the "special...entitled...super power..." programs and the secret is out of the bag now.

The NCAA had best be ready to "FIGHT ON" against USC and THE Ohio State University. And they have some more suspicious characters to start wrestling with as well...

; 0 )

So, who knows just how long the current system will remain in place. I have a feeling that there will be gyrations, chaos and threats of unrest, rebellion and alienation as a number of "divorces" threaten the system and the NCAA Division I/BCS Football mold may very well face it's most difficult challenge to date. And, if all hell breaks loose, who knows what things will look like when the dust settles.

I predict that the University of Minnesota will remain in the Big Ten and with the NCAA. I doubt if we will have any other choices. However, some Big Ten programs may have several choices to make.

IF this schism were to happen, we will find out which programs value educational ties, the love of some money and a willingness to have the rules dictated to them by the majority...and...which programs value the love of power, the love of money, the desire to leave the confines of the NCAA behind and use their collective bargining power by banding with other like power programs to form a power conference that gives each individual member MORE power than they currently have with the NCAA.

I think the NCAA just may lose no matter what they try to do...Ohio State fans will NOT be happy with the way THE Ohio State University is treated. Prexy G at OSU would have to be a very strong prexy to stand up to THE Buckeye Nation...if and when they ever start getting their legislators to turn loose the "anti-trust" card. And USC won't take too kindly to having a NC taken awasy AS WELL AS forcing their latest Heisman Trophy winner to return the trophy...entitled fans and entitled players and entitled programs just do not take kindly to those kinds of things.
 


That is a very good question...

justthefacts said:
Do anti-trust laws apply to non-profits?
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I am not an attorney...I am not a judge...but, with all the power, money and with the terribly punishment power to give a member institution sudden and certain "death or near death" sentences that do affect the rights of that member institution to "compete" in the market place, I would be willing to guess that some major "court time" could be obtained by some major universities and colleges IF they decided to branch off from the NCAA. I really don't know if the NCAA could stop them from resigning their memberships, banding as a competing entitiy and attempting to market their product to sports programming consumers.

IF the NCAA itself were to be found immune, I am certain that a prexy of the NCAA...a board that directs the NCAA and the individuals involved in running the NCAA could be dragged into the courthouse screaming and shouting and protesting entirely too robustly. They might have to pay the price to defend themselves for being an anti-competetive force in our free market place system... ; 0 )


This link has a few references to anti-trust and the NCAA.


http://www.altru.com/nonprofit.htm#_1.__Antitrust_Claims


It is an excellent question and it would be kind of sad...but...also very interesting to see how it would play out IF the situation would ever warrant such a test case. It would get a LOT of coverage and draw a LOT of attention, I am sure...

; 0 )
 

Wouldn't be surprised if we won one in the next 10 years honestly. It only takes one year, and a lot of times, you don't even see it coming. OSU's gonna fall off for a few years, who knows about Michigan with Hoke. Penn State, if/when Paterno leaves shortly, who knows where they could head. Nebraska could be looking at a nice era, along with unfortunately Wisconsin. But I feel like we have enough resources to compete with those schools and Iowa.

On the other hand, it's been 44 years for a reason, so that could just continue and we never make it. We'll see, Kill could be that special guy who figures it out here and gets us that championship.
 

Walrus - correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that college football has hit some kind of new low (or high, depending on your point of view) for corruption and cheating.

I'm not sure that's accurate. College football has gone through many challenges in its history. Heck, President Theodore Roosevelt was talking about banning the game in the early 1900's because of rough play leading to player deaths and serious injuries.

There have certainly been other eras with cheating scandals. I remember reading about a cheating scandal at West Point when they had one of the top college FB programs in the country.

And, if you saw the ESPN 30 on 30 program about SMU and the death penalty, it was pretty clear that there was rampant cheating in that era in terms of players being paid under the table, or making big money in the off-season for "no-show" jobs.

I think the difference today is in the media. With 24-hour cable channels, ESPN, talk radio, blogs, internet message boards, Facebook and Twitter, every negative story gets re-broadcast and re-amplified over a multitude of channels.

Yes, there are coaches and schools that break the rules. But, there have always been coaches and schools that break the rules. I think the big difference is that we're more aware of it now, making it seem worse.

I still believe that the vast majority of programs are relatively clean. When something like the Ohio State Story breaks, it tends to tar all of college FB with the same brush.

And, if a few conferences tried to break away from the NCAA and start their own assocation, the big question is whether the TV networks would follow. Without the big TV money, any separtist group would likely be doomed to fail. I believe those TV contracts are tied to the conferences, so that is where the real legal fight would come if some of the BCS leagues tried to break away from the NCAA.
 

I'm not saying that there is an "all-time high" for cheating...

BUT...there certainly is an "all-time" financial value put on the entire "arms-race" in college football.

Multi-million dollar coaches who are NOT in control of the rampant booster contacts with the programs and the players are rather troublesom...HOWEVER, what is probably going to have to happen with the NCAA is that they are more or less going to be forced to bring the hammer down on the "untouchable" programs.

First USC...now Ohio State...can Auburn (defending national champ) be far behind? And, remember there is some nasty stuff going on at Oregon too. Auburn and Oregon played for the NC last season...and I don't know IF the NCAA can walk away from some of those programs now that they have taken USC and Ohio State down.

My question lies more with whether some of these "top of the line..." and formerly "untouchable" TOP 15 types of programs...with all of their sense of entitlements and outrageously and incredibly loyal, huge fan bases and "we will do anything to WIN...because we ALWAYS win" types of football programs will be willing to be publically humiliated, penalized, kept from competing for national championships by the NCAA and willing to share the revenue they can make because of their own name with other LESSER (in their own minds) conference members? Think about it...set up four 8 team regional divisions in a SUPER CONFERENCE, play only teams from the other regions for the ooc portions of the schedule and then have a playoff to determine a TRUE National Champion...and open up the bidding to ESPN, FOX, NBC, etc to see just HOW MANY Billions of dollars a 3 or 4 year deal with bring. Then, just divide that money, after expences among 32 teams. Now, start looking at some of the names of programs that are SO strong...USC, Oregon, Texas, Texas A & M, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, Ohio State, Florida, possibly Florida State...Miama, FL, Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, LSU, maybe Penn State, Arizona State, Auburn, and a few more. Would Notre Dame be tempted?

These schools would not be hampered by the NCAA any longer. They could come up with their own rules. They could have different recruiting rules. They could decide to pay their players IF they wanted.

There are all kinds of reasons why something like this would be welcomed by some of these types of programs...and maybe, you are correct, that conference ties and traditions may rule in the end. It may very well be that THE Ohio State fan base and boosters will be satisfied, humbled by their humiliating experience of losing scholarships, being banned from post season play and having to admit that they have gained benefits by cheating and allowing an almost total lack of institutional control in their BUCKEYE FOOTBALL Program. But, then again, maybe some of thm will NEVER accept that the NCAA has ANY kind of right to touch THE Ohio State FOOTBALL PROGRAM.

I just think that the NCAA has FINALLY realized that they have to start bringing the hammer down on the formerly untouchable MONSTER programs that in essence are the best known and most markatable programs. My question is this: has the NCAA waited too long, and will some of the supre powers be SO offended by their punishments that they decide to take their ball and go home and "run away" from the limiting NCAA and start their own governing body and marketing machine. It would be the quickest way to a playoff based TRUE national championship series. A total of 16 to 32 super teams could easily have their entire season geared toward a big time playoff between 4 or 8 teams at the end of the year. Why, the top 8 teams could have a real play-off system down to the National championship. The "elete eight"


And, who knows, perhaps the current system is just no longer managable. Maybe, in order to save the integrity of the game, the strongest programs with the most resources and the longest history of always being elete and entitled with the strongest fan bases and the most outrageous booster groups NEED to be eleminated from the regular old college football programs that really can NOT compete with those elete programs any way. Perhaps Division I could have a return to having real student athletes who want a college education and want to go to class playing on Saturdays. Maybe the "elete programs" would have all the four and five star players...and maybe that would be a good thing for them...their programs and those entitled fan bases.

Maybe the less than elete programs wouldn't make as much money from their football and possibly basketball and hockey programs. Maybe they wouldn't be giving coaches multi-million dollar contracts or spending as much. Maybe the college football "arms race" would become less of a porblem. Just think, the University of Minnesota just spent almost $300 million just to get their football program back on campus...and they have one of the 3 smallest and least able to generate income stadiums in the Big Ten Conference. PSU, OSU and Michigan all have stadiums that seat over 100,000. Minnesota, Indiana and NU are all less able to raise income from Game Day Saturday than all the rest of the Big Ten football programs. And, THE Ohio State University football program CHEATS to try to maintain their incredible advantage. And, we just have Nebraska entering the Big Ten...IF you don't think they are going to try to keep up with THE Ohio State in every way, shape and form, you will be very mistaken. When Michigan arizes from their journey to hell...and Penn State decides to really get serious...I really don't know IF the Big Ten will be big enough to hold these angry/and/or/sleeping giants. The REAL slumbering giants in the Big Ten in football are Ohio State, Nebraska, Michigan and Penn State. Just look out when they get revved up, on focus and decide to each "own" the world of college football. There are some other programs just like them in other conferences. I really don't know where it will all end...but...I have a feeling that if you haven't been right there with those other giants pretty much all along, it is NOT going to be pretty.

Our beautiful little 50,000 seat stadium just brought us back to campus...it didn't put us on equal or even footing with a LOT of programs. Just a fact of life.

But, if the U of M could join the ranks of other college and university football programs that want to have real student athletes playing football on Saturdays in the fall, Game Day Saturday can have GREAT traditions and be even better than it is today.

But when a program as GREAT as THE Ohio State has to cheat and look the other way and have the boosters running the show just to compete with the OTHER super powers...the rest of us really don't even have ANY kind of stinking chance to really ever compete with tosu. Why even pretend????? So, let's find a way to clean up and simplify and take some of the money out of college football and let the BIG TIME PROGRAMS do what ever they damn well please. Let them have the BIGGEST and the BEST tv contracts...and all the nightmares, headaches and all the cheating that goes with that. IF the NCAA drives off some of the biggest cheaters and rule benders, more power to them. Keep bringing the hammer down on the big boys NCAA. Let the chips fall where they may.
 

I think that college football has been growing financially and with the age of information, we are becoming more and more privy to the antics of certain programs. I don't think that filth has gotten any worse, in fact, I actually think they have had to do more to hide their respective shadiness.

As far as the NCAA....I think the real question is if it will always be considered a non-profit.
 

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