Calvin and Hobbes captures the state of the economic environment

[BleedGopher]

This sums it up pretty well...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_djgssszshgM/SYXCzpR0MbI/AAAAAAAAAyY/VYle3udsueo/s1600-h/CalvinHobbs.BMP

[bga1]

Some truth to that. Sad to say, one could easily write a very similar comic strip that would be a parody of the American labor union worker, another that would be a parody of our government tax systems and still another of those who refuse to be educated and yet expect to be taken care of.

It's now an entitlement society from government to big business to laborers.

[Gopher4Life]

Government allows business to function only as long as the bureaucracy derives great benefit from the participants. If business owners earn a profit along the way, that's a by-product and must be watched closely so it doesn't get out of hand. Government does not exist to serve the people; people exist to serve their government. Elected officials are not public servants; they are supervisors and the only legitimate problem solvers. Problems are systematically created to justify the expansion of government. We are so close to European Socialism. Enjoy.

[jamiche]

You guys don't get it. The reason we've had the best economy in the world for 75 years is a good government that provides the infrastructure (physical, legal and political) that enables people with good ideas and initiative to make a buck.

This "government is the enemy" crap started with Reagan which is about the same time that everybody started living beyond their means. The current mess has its origins in Reagan's reckless economic policies.

[Moonlight]

Thanks Bleed - I miss Calvin and Hobbes!
Hey Jammer - How've you been?
Well put.
Isn't amazing people can look at the same set of facts and draw completely different conclusions? The road to recovery is going to be very difficult, imperfect and need of multiple course corrections, something gov't finds challenging.
I'm sure the small percentage of people who still thought Bush was doing a good job will find the Obama administration very painful. As painful as the rest of us found Bush? I guess I can't wish that on anyone.

[bga1]

You guys don't get it. The reason we've had the best economy in the world for 75 years is a good government that provides the infrastructure (physical, legal and political) that enables people with good ideas and initiative to make a buck.

This "government is the enemy" crap started with Reagan which is about the same time that everybody started living beyond their means. The current mess has its origins in Reagan's reckless economic policies.


The government is not the enemy. It just needs to be kept in balance. If the government becomes a caretaker, as it rapidly is, it will not survive the long run. If you don't see the problem now - you will but it will be too late to change it.

Wouldn't it be great if we could all just let the government take care of all of us? Sure. The problem then is- who then is supporting the government?

As far as who has lived beyond their means- it's not everyone- as you say. In fact, ironically, it's exactly the people who ARE paying all of the taxes who were also able to pay their mortgages. You can look to the Carter Administration for the origination of the CRA, then the Clinton Administration for the strenthening of it such that we now have the subprime crisis. Teh problem we have is that people who could not afford homes were encouraged to do so by governemnt mandated credit policy originally intended for minorities. Once pandoras box was opened people of all types took advantage of it.

[Jim V2]

Calvin and Hobbes is one of my all time favorite cartoons, and Watterson nails it once again. Thanks for posting that, Bleed.

[jamiche]

The government is not the enemy. It just needs to be kept in balance. If the government becomes a caretaker, as it rapidly is, it will not survive the long run. If you don't see the problem now - you will but it will be too late to change it.

Wouldn't it be great if we could all just let the government take care of all of us? Sure. The problem then is- who then is supporting the government?

As far as who has lived beyond their means- it's not everyone- as you say. In fact, ironically, it's exactly the people who ARE paying all of the taxes who were also able to pay their mortgages. You can look to the Carter Administration for the origination of the CRA, then the Clinton Administration for the strenthening of it such that we now have the subprime crisis. Teh problem we have is that people who could not afford homes were encouraged to do so by governemnt mandated credit policy originally intended for minorities. Once pandoras box was opened people of all types took advantage of it.

If it weren't for Carter (balanced budget) and Clinton (budget surplus) this country would be in great shape.

The reason that we can infer the degree of your financial success, beej, is because you operate in a relatively orderly system. You can thank the government that you hate so much for that gift. In reality, the government has taken very good care of you.

[jamiche]

Thanks Bleed - I miss Calvin and Hobbes!
Hey Jammer - How've you been?
Well put.
Isn't amazing people can look at the same set of facts and draw completely different conclusions? The road to recovery is going to be very difficult, imperfect and need of multiple course corrections, something gov't finds challenging.
I'm sure the small percentage of people who still thought Bush was doing a good job will find the Obama administration very painful. As painful as the rest of us found Bush? I guess I can't wish that on anyone.

Hi Moonlight: Nice to hear from you too. I was at the game last night but I couldn't find you. I didn't see your handsome boys either. Mrs. Jamiche had some joint surgery today, so I'll be her man servant (or maybe just her servant) for a while. :)

[bga1]

If it weren't for Carter (balanced budget) and Clinton (budget surplus) this country would be in great shape.

The reason that we can infer the degree of your financial success, beej, is because you operate in a relatively orderly system. You can thank the government that you hate so much for that gift. In reality, the government has taken very good care of you.

Reread my post. I like order and I like good government. The balance has been breached.

Carter was the worst President in history by far. You do recall America being held hostage by Iran and 17% interest don't you?

[jamiche]

Unfortunately, the gov't is now the economic stop gap of the country. There is no choice. The relatively orderly system was gutted and we are all paying the price.

Given a choice between two bad options, I would take the Carter economy over this one every day of the week.

[tikited]

This "government is the enemy" crap started with Reagan which is about the same time that everybody started living beyond their means. The current mess has its origins in Reagan's reckless economic policies.

Right on the money as usual!!

[Schnoodler]

I would like to add, that reagonomics was the correct correction at the time. the problem isn't so much that we made the adjustments but that we didn't pull back and seek balance once the correction was completed. Reagonomics wasn't a center, it was far right. When we didn't readjust back to the center we ended up over correcting setting us on a course for huge imbalances (aka bubbles). It's much like taking the whole bottle of pills because one or two worked so well, OD is a consequence.


Calvin and hobbes nails it. nice post.

[Gopher4Life]

jamiche,

>>This "government is the enemy" crap...<<

Bloated, ever-growing, unresponsive, unaccountable government is part of the problem. Obscenely greedy, callous, full-of-themselves capitalists are the remainder of the problem.

Citizens created government and purposely limited it. Government now treats productive citizens as slaves in service to the master.

[jamiche]

I wish the world were as black and white and simple as you make it out to be.

[Gopher4Life]

The world is not as complicated as many would prefer for us to believe. I simplify so that readers of all ages and backgrounds can understand my point.

[bga1]

I wish the world were as black and white and simple as you make it out to be.

You mean the kind of black and white like everything is W's fault for the past 8 years? That kind of black and white??

[Schnoodler]

Well that's just the truth BGA. There's a difference.

[jamiche]

Umm, no. If you read my earlier post I said that the culture of debt and lack of accountability goes back to Reagan. There was dem prez and a few dem congresses in there. Your hero just brought it to a devastating head.

BTW, you said in an earlier post that Jimmy Carter was the worst prez in history. He was a lousy prez and clearly in the bottom third. However, he was an absolute giant compared to Bush.

[bga1]

Well that's just the truth BGA. There's a difference.


If it's true to you, then that's okay, let that be black and white for you. While we mostly disagree on things at least you have thought it out and are clear why you think it-even when you are wrong (as with this for example :) ). I like that.

[Moonlight]

Umm, no. If you read my earlier post I said that the culture of debt and lack of accountability goes back to Reagan. There was dem prez and a few dem congresses in there. Your hero just brought it to a devastating head.

BTW, you said in an earlier post that Jimmy Carter was the worst prez in history. He was a lousy prez and clearly in the bottom third. However, he was an absolute giant compared to Bush.
Thank you, Jammer. I am so sick of the need many have to blame our situation on one party, either party. There's no future in that. Clearly it is the result of poor management and egging on our consumption as if there were no tomorrow or day of reckoning.
There is also no perfect solution to this huge mess, but that doesn't stop bga from his daily rag on its handling. Bush got miles of support for 911 from the entire country, but apparently 5 minutes is too taxing for the Republican zealots.
EDIT: please note I say zealots, not all republicans!

[bga1]

Thank you, Jammer. I am so sick of the need many have to blame our situation on one party, either party. There's no future in that. Clearly it is the result of poor management and egging on our consumption as if there were no tomorrow or day of reckoning.
There is also no perfect solution to this huge mess, but that doesn't stop bga from his daily rag on its handling. Bush got miles of support for 911 from the entire country, but apparently 5 minutes is too taxing for the Republican zealots.
EDIT: please note I say zealots, not all republicans!


I find it interesting that you suddenly have a concern for placing blame. You certainly had no issue with it during the previous administration and it expressed it often.

I certainly would never consider you a zealot or even partisan. In fact I can never figure out just what side you will take. Hmmm............. I always wonder, how Moonlight will weigh in on this one?
Thanks for the chuckle.

BTW- Since the election I have said very little on here beyond congratulating Obama and the D's... until the stimulus package was proposed. This is the largest program in history to be proposed and it's worth the civil debate. And I have been civil. I'm sorry I offend you, it's plainly obvious that you would like to eliminate my opinion...

[Moonlight]

I find it interesting that you suddenly have a concern for placing blame. You certainly had no issue with it during the previous administration and it expressed it often.

I certainly would never consider you a zealot or even partisan. In fact I can never figure out just what side you will take. Hmmm............. I always wonder, how Moonlight will weigh in on this one?
Thanks for the chuckle.

BTW- Since the election I have said very little on here beyond congratulating Obama and the D's... until the stimulus package was proposed. This is the largest program in history to be proposed and it's worth the civil debate. And I have been civil. I'm sorry I offend you, it's plainly obvious that you would like to eliminate my opinion...
Have you read your posts? The outcome of this will be all on the dem's and Obama's head I believe you said, as if all this just started now. And at what point did you read my position on the previous admin? Several years into the second round.
As for your confusion on my positions: I grew up in a household of Republican Christians committed to raising their kids to think for themselves. My mind just doesn't run down the same old well-worn streams.

[Gopher4Life]

Moonie,

When your renagade days are over, you might see the light and return to the foundation and wisdom of your parents. That's how it happens for a lot of us.

G4L, semi-active SDS member at UM in 1970

[bga1]

Have you read your posts? The outcome of this will be all on the dem's and Obama's head I believe you said, as if all this just started now. And at what point did you read my position on the previous admin? Several years into the second round.
As for your confusion on my positions: I grew up in a household of Republican Christians committed to raising their kids to think for themselves. My mind just doesn't run down the same old well-worn streams.

The problem was created by people before Obama including most of the members (including Republicans if you read my posts) in this sitting Congress. Congress - those who vote for this stimulus package will bear double responsibility. Obama will bear only the responsibility for the results of the solution. He spoke in terms of bipartisanship and his first huge action totally lacks it. That brings it upon himself and the Dems.

You may well recall that Bush inherited a recession (look it up) and he was 9 months into office when 9-11 occured. He was not to blame for the recession though he was responsible for the recover which was a very good one. He was not to blame for 9-11 - or for the situation across the Middle East, but he was held responsible for the solution. Thoes who hated the solution - as you did- hated him. Those who liked the solution (thought it had faults in it's execution) liked him.

In the end Obama will be held responsible for the solution which he promised, with great vigor before the election, would come. His partners in the Democratic Congress will be held equally responsible.

I have zero confusion over your positions- they are crystal clear and predictable, just as mine are.
(I was teasing you if you missed it) Looks like we are both "zealots" if that's the word you like.

[monk10]

I might have missed here, but I thought the republicans standing up and trumpeting this stimulus bill are responding to the general dislike of partisan politics, and are demonstrating to America that they are a party that can work across lines. It appears that this bill is bipartisan. What am I missing when they stand up and say they support it?

[jamiche]

Bush got a free pass on 9/11 from a very intimidated media. His decision to blow off the intelligence report in August, 2000 that said that Bin Laden was planning to attack the U.S. was fatal and fateful. The media's fear of appearing to be unpatriotic also facilitated the run up to the Iraq war. Katrina was the "emperor has no clothes" moment. After that, they turned him into a comic book character, but it was too late and the damage to the country had been done.

[jamiche]

Moonie,

When your renagade days are over, you might see the light and return to the foundation and wisdom of your parents. That's how it happens for a lot of us.

G4L, semi-active SDS member at UM in 1970

Your SDS involvement, if true, makes your harping on the Obama Ayers "connection" during the campaign both ironic and hypocritical.

Whether from the far left or the far right, the world is black and white. As you said, more simple that way.

[Moonlight]

Actually, G4L, my father has seen the light. ("I'll bet you never thought you'd hear me say this but Reagan's view on regulation was wrong")
He voted for Obama as did his new lovely lady in his life, also a lifelong republican. Many republicans object to the rigid ways of the new republicans, or as my father would say, the people who hijacked the party with their extremist issue politics.
Many say that Bill Clinton was the best republican president we've had in a long time.
Unlike you, I have never been an extremist - my more liberal friends would agree. Perhaps having swung so hard one direction, you feel the need to swing far in the other direction.

[Moonlight]

bga - no one declares what other people think more than you do. So let me say a few of my own thoughts.

I don't hate Bush, never did and will not. I'm sure you don't hate Obama, so why would you gravitate so quickly to assigning my criticism to hatred rather than rational dislike of policies? I think he made some poor decisions and surrounded himself with people who think just like him and was unwilling to look at perspectives other than his own. I won't even say that I think the war in Iraq was a mistake, but it was poorly executed with no exit strategy.
In less than a month you have probably more more energy into criticizing Obama on this board than I did criticizing Bush.

[bga1]

Really - you need to relook the posts. I have said very little about Obama in comparison to Congress. I have been concerned that he is not showing leadership in directing a good bipartisan solution. He did not drive a plan to Congress. Instead he let Congress make the plan for the most part - a mistake. This bill, just a few weeks into his Presidency outspends the entire 5+ years of the Iraq war, so I think it's worth discussing with passion.

He doesn't have to be bi-partisan, he makes the call. But that is what he promised. So I am concerned about Obama, but the blame for crafting this mess goes mostly to Congress. The day he signs this- he then jumps in the boat with them.

If I'm wrong about what you've said about Bush then you have my apology.

[Moonlight]

Well, good point. But your perspective on congress has still been the "dems" are responsible for any problems - I can see why you would say this, but I'm afraid we may have many people posturing to avoid potential blame - no matter what we do, there will be big problems to deal with. Sadly, I don't feel I can trust the reports of either party as to this bill.

What we are trying to avoid is the situation japan has been/is in, and much of the analysis suggests that they failed to act. So we're acting. Maybe analysts will decide later our mistake was in acting. Obama will sign it as he must and then on we go to the next level of crisis.

I don't particularly like it either. I'm a fiscal conservative. Our whole culture is run amuck with irresponsible spending and immoral hoarding/greed. We want the good life but we as a country don't even know what that is. It isn't unending growth and prosperity - the tide goes in and out, and fluctuation in financial assets is normal. When I have less work, I have more time to spend/devote to loved ones and my community. I know many will say I'm naive when it comes to the intricacies of the global economy, but I can't see how a system or our planet can support a perspective that an economy must always grow or the sky is falling. A company shows profits but not as projected so the sky is falling. The kind of out of control consumption here in the US, soon to be out stripped by China, is one that cannot be supported indefinitely by the resources of our planet. At one point, I remember reading that if China were going to consume at our pace, we would need 2 more earths in the next 100 years to meet that demand.

Something has to stop the rampant greed and the collapse of the global economy is it. Does this bill help? Maybe. Would the republicans come up with something better? I doubt it. Is congress selflessly engaged in examining the right paradigm? Likely not.

[Schnoodler]

True is that growth is tied closely with what we pull out of mother earth and make good use of. We're relearning an important economic reality now as the bubbles that attempted to exceed such limits are bursting one after another. Hopefully, we learn something and refocus on more sustainable types of growth, and understand when markets exceed such limits it's not so much a time to celebrate as it is a time to start worrying and wondering what broke that needs to be fixed. Else it fixes itself but much more painfully so.

We have created a wonderful model for the world on how to inflate a bubble. And they appear to learn their lessons well. Hopefully the great teacher; reality, can get it's lesson across this time, and we can set a better expample the next go around. Think we can?,...me neither.

[bga1]

Well, good point. But your perspective on congress has still been the "dems" are responsible for any problems - I can see why you would say this, but I'm afraid we may have many people posturing to avoid potential blame - no matter what we do, there will be big problems to deal with. Sadly, I don't feel I can trust the reports of either party as to this bill.

What we are trying to avoid is the situation japan has been/is in, and much of the analysis suggests that they failed to act. So we're acting. Maybe analysts will decide later our mistake was in acting. Obama will sign it as he must and then on we go to the next level of crisis.

I don't particularly like it either. I'm a fiscal conservative. Our whole culture is run amuck with irresponsible spending and immoral hoarding/greed. We want the good life but we as a country don't even know what that is. It isn't unending growth and prosperity - the tide goes in and out, and fluctuation in financial assets is normal. When I have less work, I have more time to spend/devote to loved ones and my community. I know many will say I'm naive when it comes to the intricacies of the global economy, but I can't see how a system or our planet can support a perspective that an economy must always grow or the sky is falling. A company shows profits but not as projected so the sky is falling. The kind of out of control consumption here in the US, soon to be out stripped by China, is one that cannot be supported indefinitely by the resources of our planet. At one point, I remember reading that if China were going to consume at our pace, we would need 2 more earths in the next 100 years to meet that demand.

Something has to stop the rampant greed and the collapse of the global economy is it. Does this bill help? Maybe. Would the republicans come up with something better? I doubt it. Is congress selflessly engaged in examining the right paradigm? Likely not.

There's a lot we can agree upon in your post- so I'll leave it sit like that. Thanks.

[Gopher4Life]

jamiche,

>>Your SDS involvement, if true...<<

I was there the day the ROTC building on campus was stoned as well as other more peaceful meetings and rallies in those wild Fall and Winter quarters of 69-70. Can't say I'm proud of it today. If you'll recall, it was so chaotic on the main campus that students were offered their mid-term grades during Spring quarter if they would begin summer early and go home.

>>...makes your harping on the Obama Ayers "connection" during the campaign both ironic and hypocritical.<<

Or perhaps my concern is justified because I know from personal experience what I'm talking about.

>>Whether from the far left or the far right, the world is black and white. As you said, more simple that way.<<

I'll agree that the world is more complicated than polorized zealots make it seem...if you'll agree that the world is much simpler than governments, politicians, and even pundits want us to believe.

With some readers, simplicity is essential for understanding.

[jamiche]

The SDS and its offshoot, the Weather Underground, was a radical organization that used indiscriminate violence as one of the tools to achieve its objectives. Not just a bunch of peaceful, pot smoking hippies. Your involvement puts you in the same large bed as Bernadine, Bill and, as you and beej claim, Barack.

The fact that you swung from the far left to the far right makes no difference. It is the proclivity for extremist thinking that leads to violent behavior in some people that is disturbing.

[diehard]

I believe this also ties G4L to ACORN and Wade Rathke (SDS radical and founder and leader of ACORN for 28 years), add a degree of extension and his past ties him to Obama and the stimulus package that gives $5B of borrowed money to the non-profit under investigation for "voter fraud" organization. Do we really know what is going on in Oklahoma?

[Schnoodler]

I believe this also ties G4L to ACORN and Wade Rathke (SDS radical and founder and leader of ACORN for 28 years), add a degree of extension and his past ties him to Obama and the stimulus package that gives $5B of borrowed money to the non-profit under investigation for "voter fraud" organization. Do we really know what is going on in Oklahoma?

Oh I think he knows the scoop. And I think we all know why he hasn't posted so much the last two days.
http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/02/socialist-local-organized-in-oklahoma-city/

[Gopher4Life]

jamiche,

That's a cheap shot.

I was a 17-year old kid from a remote HS that graduated 120 who found himself on a campus of 40,000 as an unpopular war waged. I associated with SDS for about five months...or long enough to see what it was about and to realize I didn't belong. I recognized my mistake. Bill Ayers (and perhaps Obama) hasn't.

[diehard]

Oh I think he knows the scoop. And I think we all know why he hasn't posted so much the last two days.
http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/02/socialist-local-organized-in-oklahoma-city/


Great find! Best laugh all weekend. Marx, Jefferson, and Jesus straight to Oklahoma. You don't subscribe to the Red Webzine, do you? G4L, SDS, Rathke, ACORN, Obama, Stimulus Plan '09 #1. The new 6 degrees!

[diehard]

G4L, toughen up. We all give shots, we all take shots. You gave out your secret, now we can have a little fun. I doubt after all this time anyone is being any more mean-spirited than usual. You should guard your soft spots a little better. Although I have no SDS background, I voted for McGovern and Carter before I grew up. Man, did Carter school me or what!:eek:

[jamiche]

jamiche,

That's a cheap shot.

I was a 17-year old kid from a remote HS that graduated 120 who found himself on a campus of 40,000 as an unpopular war waged. I associated with SDS for about five months...or long enough to see what it was about and to realize I didn't belong. I recognized my mistake. Bill Ayers (and perhaps Obama) hasn't.

It wasn't a cheap shot. There were a lot of kids from all kinds of places that didn't join the SDS. You were associated with a violent organization with an offshoot (Weather Underground) that would be considered a domestic terrorist threat by today's standards. Whether it was five minutes or five months makes no difference. In your posts you seem very unwilling to absolve others, so why should you be absolved?

I think that you are a very smart person and, though I don't agree with many of your positions, I respect them. On this one, you can't have it both ways.

[rrjackIII]

Moonie,

When your renagade days are over, you might see the light and return to the foundation and wisdom of your parents. That's how it happens for a lot of us.

G4L, semi-active SDS member at UM in 1970

According to Wikipedia SDS dissolved in summer 1969.

"Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) was, historically, a student activist movement in the United States that was one of the main iconic representations of the country's New Left. The organization developed and expanded rapidly in the mid-1960s before dissolving at its last convention in 1969."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_a_Democratic_Society_(1960_organizati on)#SDS-WSA.E2.80.99s_continued_activity.2C_1969.E2.80.931 974_and_beyond

SDS --- IIRC was a pretty diverse group of the left leaning people and many were strong proponents of non-violence. I have no problem with G4L searching for a few answers to societal problems in 1970.

[Schnoodler]

Great find! Best laugh all weekend. Marx, Jefferson, and Jesus straight to Oklahoma. You don't subscribe to the Red Webzine, do you? G4L, SDS, Rathke, ACORN, Obama, Stimulus Plan '09 #1. The new 6 degrees!


No I thought I'd link G4L to the okoahoma socialist party in the spirit of the thread and went searching for the president of the local branch. there isn't one so i used that. Did find other stuff, oklahoma apparently had a pretty strong socialist party pre WWI.

[jamiche]

According to Wikipedia SDS dissolved in summer 1969.

"Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) was, historically, a student activist movement in the United States that was one of the main iconic representations of the country's New Left. The organization developed and expanded rapidly in the mid-1960s before dissolving at its last convention in 1969."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_a_Democratic_Society_(1960_organizati on)#SDS-WSA.E2.80.99s_continued_activity.2C_1969.E2.80.931 974_and_beyond

SDS --- IIRC was a pretty diverse group of the left leaning people and many were strong proponents of non-violence. I have no problem with G4L searching for a few answers to societal problems in 1970.

I don't know if you were around back then but the SDS was a very confrontational organization. Mostly a lot of campus takeovers, some rioting and a lot of inflammatory rhetoric. The Weather Underground, which was a part of the SDS, took it the next step. The primary issue, obviously, was Viet Nam, but that was a catalyst for a lot of talk of revolution. In retrospect, it was more idealistic than anything else but there was definitely a dark side to some of its participants.

[rrjackIII]

I don't know if you were around back then but the SDS was a very confrontational organization. Mostly a lot of campus takeovers, some rioting and a lot of inflammatory rhetoric. The Weather Underground, which was a part of the SDS, took it the next step. The primary issue, obviously, was Viet Nam, but that was a catalyst for a lot of talk of revolution. In retrospect, it was more idealistic than anything else but there was definitely a dark side to some of its participants.

jamiche - I was around back then - never joined SDS but campaigned for Gene McCarthy around the country in '68. No campus takeovers at St. Thomas College in 1967.

I know this was meant as a somewhat litehearted thread and I don't mean to drag it down but when G4L mentions campus life in 1970 I was reminded of how tumultuous campus life could be in 1970 as is evidenced in this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI1gcH2XCEw&feature=related

Campus life was a bit different back then and there was definitely a dark side. Some participants unfortunately resorted to violence but certainly not all.

[Gopher4Life]

rrjack,

SDS may or may not have disbanded nationally in mid-69, but it was very active on our main campus later during Fall and Winter of 69-70. Rallies in front of Coffman were routine. Most common characteristics seemed to be disdain for the war, frayed denim, long hair, and parent-paid bills.

jamiche,

Blaming an older adult for an error in judgment as an experimental teenager will always be a cheap shot in my book.

>>In your posts you seem very unwilling to absolve others, so why should you be absolved?<<

It's different when the adults fail to disavow their past behavior.

[Schnoodler]

"Most common characteristics seemed to be disdain for the war, frayed denim, long hair, and parent-paid bills."

My favorite movie: hair. I missed it all by a mere 10 years. Well at least I got to live the middle two. Still do now that I think of it. And I did add the first a few years ago. I need to call my parents....

[diehard]

Now that the SDS is being put to rest, I want to know about G4L's acid trips and how many times a day he smoked Mary Jane. They were inseperable from disdain for the war, frayed denim, long hair, and parent-paid bills.

[jamiche]

jamiche - I was around back then - never joined SDS but campaigned for Gene McCarthy around the country in '68. No campus takeovers at St. Thomas College in 1967.

I know this was meant as a somewhat litehearted thread and I don't mean to drag it down but when G4L mentions campus life in 1970 I was reminded of how tumultuous campus life could be in 1970 as is evidenced in this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI1gcH2XCEw&feature=related

Campus life was a bit different back then and there was definitely a dark side. Some participants unfortunately resorted to violence but certainly not all.

Campus life was an awful lot of fun back then.

[diehard]

Surprised no one has brought up the "flower Children" and free love.

[Schnoodler]

I can't decide if I liked it better when it was free or if paying for it somehow makes it better.

If you're going to San Francisco....

[Schnoodler]

Here's the entire lyric:

If you're going to San Francisco
Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair
If you're going to San Francisco
You're gonna meet some gentle people there

For those who come to San Francisco
Summertime will be a love-in there
In the streets of San Francisco
Gentle people with flowers in their hair

All across the nation such a strange vibration
People in motion
There's a whole generation with a new explanation
People in motion people in motion

For those who come to San Francisco
Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair
If you come to San Francisco
Summertime will be a love-in there

If you come to San Francisco
Summertime will be a love-in there

[rrjackIII]

Campus life was an awful lot of fun back then.

You're right. It wasn't all work and no play.