tubby getting ripped on 1500

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Tubby's not unique in that a lot of coaches are going to get ripped when they're on a 4-game losing streak. It's obviously going to be different than when they made their run in the BTT last year - or if they get on a winning streak yet this year.

You have to take the longer view rather than get caught up in the last game or the last week. The problem is that the longer view - the bigger picture - has some warts in it, too. Souhan says a lot of ridiculous things, but I listened to a few minutes of the feed, and he and Russo raise some issues that deserve to be talked about. The overall conference record in 3+ seasons. The defections as well as the rumblings Souhan claims to have heard over the last couple years about discontent in the program. Smith's own quotes after the game last night referring to players questioning whether the coach knows what he's talking about. There's little question in my mind that Tubby Smith knows what he's talking about and knows how to coach, but part of coaching is also having the confidence and trust of your players.

I see the defections, besides being a root of the current swoon, as a key indicator of the state of the program. Roster management is part of the job. As Jerry Kill has said on a couple occasions already, you have to keep recruiting these kids once you have them in the house. It's no different than a leader in a workplace and what (s)he has to do to maintain morale and keep people energized. Clem Haskins got a lot of W's by keeping his roster together through tough times. He convinced more than a few players to stay when they were on the verge of leaving. Tubby seems more inclined to consider them a lost cause and cut them loose. Maybe that's his way of doing things, but - again using the business analogy - it affects his bottom line, and he is accountable for that.

I have lofty expectations of Coach Smith and this program. Some will agree with that and some will not.
 

Has the Paul Carter rift with Tubby been verified? Souhan is throwing it around as fact.
 

Souhan had some valid points. But as usual he showed how little he really knows, claiming that Tubby 'chased Paul Carter away' and is now citing him as one of the 'men' they had last year.
 



howeda7 said:
Souhan had some valid points. But as usual he showed how little he really knows, claiming that Tubby 'chased Paul Carter away' and is now citing him as one of the 'men' they had last year.
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He skipped over the fact that DJ was also a Sr last year and was probably one of the 'men' Tubby was referring to.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Tubby's not unique in that a lot of coaches are going to get ripped when they're on a 4-game losing streak. It's obviously going to be different than when they made their run in the BTT last year - or if they get on a winning streak yet this year.

You have to take the longer view rather than get caught up in the last game or the last week. The problem is that the longer view - the bigger picture - has some warts in it, too. Souhan says a lot of ridiculous things, but I listened to a few minutes of the feed, and he and Russo raise some issues that deserve to be talked about. The overall conference record in 3+ seasons. The defections as well as the rumblings Souhan claims to have heard over the last couple years about discontent in the program. Smith's own quotes after the game last night referring to players questioning whether the coach knows what he's talking about. There's little question in my mind that Tubby Smith knows what he's talking about and knows how to coach, but part of coaching is also having the confidence and trust of your players.

I see the defections, besides being a root of the current swoon, as a key indicator of the state of the program. Roster management is part of the job. As Jerry Kill has said on a couple occasions already, you have to keep recruiting these kids once you have them in the house. It's no different than a leader in a workplace and what (s)he has to do to maintain morale and keep people energized. Clem Haskins got a lot of W's by keeping his roster together through tough times. He convinced more than a few players to stay when they were on the verge of leaving. Tubby seems more inclined to consider them a lost cause and cut them loose. Maybe that's his way of doing things, but - again using the business analogy - it affects his bottom line, and he is accountable for that.

I have lofty expectations of Coach Smith and this program. Some will agree with that and some will not.
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Good post Bad- No doubt Tubby has had some really bad luck this year and last year. I like what you said about the "long view".

To me the long view is this- He hasn't cracked either the first division or the .500 mark in the Big Ten yet in his four years ( it appears highly unlikely to happen this year). As bashed as Monson was - and he had some seriously bad clubs- his teams exceeded the .500 mark twice in his 8 years - 10-6 and 9-7. The fact that Tubby has had two NCAAs is essentially the luck of the draw in that we were certainly "last 4 in" material each of the years.

I really don't mind having an off year-even with a $2 million coach such as Tubby and
I don't think there's any way we can expect consistent first division finishes. What Bo Ryan is doing with Wisky (for example) is a freak of nature-simply unreal. But I think we should expect intermitent break throughs where we compete for the title- and we haven't had a whiff of that with Tubby. When you hang at the .500 mark in conference for three straight years and then you go downward-even if by bad luck- you are going to have serious complaining at his pay scale.
 

goldengophers said:
Has the Paul Carter rift with Tubby been verified? Souhan is throwing it around as fact.
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You are absolutely despicable for mentioning this and should be banned......at least that's what others think around here.
 




Souhan is a moron, he might be the worst sports opinion columnist we've ever had here.
 

Souhan has learned....

from the master Reusse. Why write something positive, when negative stories get far more reaction. Negative is what they lust for......it makes them "credible," in their small worlds.

Remember columnists don't need facts. Hearsay and innuendo is all they need to spin a good yarn.
 

goldengophers said:
Has the Paul Carter rift with Tubby been verified? Souhan is throwing it around as fact.
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Carter verified the reason for his departure (to be closer to his sister, pure and simple) in a recent interview published by one of the TC newspapers, I forget which one it was.
 

Art Vandelay said:
You are absolutely despicable for mentioning this and should be banned......at least that's what others think around here.
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No, but you still are despicable, Art, for your wallowing in self-pity. Your main goal seems to be to piss people off and then you're so hurt by their reaction to you. Like Nurse Casareto told the poor patient she stole the pain-killers from, "Man up."
 



bga1 said:
Good post Bad- No doubt Tubby has had some really bad luck this year and last year. I like what you said about the "long view".

To me the long view is this- He hasn't cracked either the first division or the .500 mark in the Big Ten yet in his four years ( it appears highly unlikely to happen this year). As bashed as Monson was - and he had some seriously bad clubs- his teams exceeded the .500 mark twice in his 8 years - 10-6 and 9-7. The fact that Tubby has had two NCAAs is essentially the luck of the draw in that we were certainly "last 4 in" material each of the years.

I really don't mind having an off year-even with a $2 million coach such as Tubby and
I don't think there's any way we can expect consistent first division finishes. What Bo Ryan is doing with Wisky (for example) is a freak of nature-simply unreal. But I think we should expect intermitent break throughs where we compete for the title- and we haven't had a whiff of that with Tubby. When you hang at the .500 mark in conference for three straight years and then you go downward-even if by bad luck- you are going to have serious complaining at his pay scale.
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Why not?

Those pesky expectations sure have been lowered.
 

There was more to the Carter transfer but because of the situation with his sister, it's not a subject most are comfortable talking about.
 

JohnnyGopher said:
There was more to the Carter transfer but because of the situation with his sister, it's not a subject most are comfortable talking about.
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I was really hoping for a comment on this from you. Thanks for as much as you can say.

I've heard this come up a couple times previously(not on GH) so it makes one wonder.

Is there a smoke/fire kind of thing. I have no idea but I am starting to wonder.
 

station19 said:
I was really hoping for a comment on this from you. Thanks for as much as you can say.

I've heard this come up a couple times previously(not on GH) so it makes one wonder.

Is there a smoke/fire kind of thing. I have no idea but I am starting to wonder.
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Same here.

I don't understand why some players leave (Cobbs, Carter, Devoe) and some have played and stayed without transferring (Blake, Trevor, Damien, Al, Ralph, Colton, Dawson, etc.) Royce White never uttered a bad word about Tubby once, and he loved to talk.

I just can't figure out if it is an issue with Tubby just being out there or if some players just don't like his style or system?

Are recruits unaware of his system and style when they sign? Do they ignore it for the nat'l championship? Do they ignore it for MN?

Not a single Monson recruit had an issue with Tubby (That I can recall) it has been all his own recruits that have transferred or had issues. Is it just a side effect of them being more highly regarded? Has Tubby changed?

I am just very confused.
 

BarnBurner said:
Why not?

Those pesky expectations sure have been lowered.
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We absolutely hired Tubby with the idea of consistent first division finishes. I expect it and I think many fans feel the same way.
 

EG#9 said:
We absolutely hired Tubby with the idea of consistent first division finishes. I expect it and I think many fans feel the same way.
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agreed. why pay a coach $2 mill a year if 2nd division finishes are good enough? there are plenty of things Tubby has had no control over that have affected the program as a whole but I would venture to say there are plenty of things that have happend that Tubby should be held accountable for.
 

EG#9 said:
We absolutely hired Tubby with the idea of consistent first division finishes. I expect it and I think many fans feel the same way.
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Not many on this forum. They will give this coach a pass at every turn. And turn things back, comparing Smith to the past coach. No recruiting restrictions for Tubby, no bad publicity from an academic scandal.


A guy making 2 large is expected to have substantially better results than the current status.

Any word uttered against Tubby is a call to arms.

Year 4.
 

there is still enough time....

for Tubby to vindicate his naysayers. Enough games for the team to make it into the tournament and then win a few games-which they should if they make it....


But that is the expectaiton and it is not unrealistic. Tubby has had the team long enough to recruit to his scheme ande personaltiy and if the Gophers flounder we are overpaying to say the least.....
 

It's remarkable the vitriol directed at the sports media in this town for being brutally honest. Many on here believe that Reusse, Souhan et al want to see the Gophers fail. Really? You think these guys want to cover bad teams? Do you think they'd want to cover the Timberwolves or the Lakers? Heck, the Timberwolves or the Thunder? Ohio State or Penn State (hoops)? Ohio State or Indiana (FB)? It's an easy answer. These guys would like to cover good teams and the criticism is well aimed.

Minnesota should not be a tough place to win. Whereas we produce little in the way of Big 10 football recruits, we do produce a good number of quality basketball recruits. We've a good fan base (although currently wilting to some extent) and what can be a great home court advantage. What concerns me most about what's gone on under Tubby's program is that outsiders looking in might be getting the idea that, even with a National Champion coach, you can't recruit and you can't win at Minnesota.

I was excoriated on this board last spring for suggested that, although Tubby should be extended, perhaps the pay should be commensurate with the results. Many saw that as suggesting we return to the days of Monson. Nothing could be further from the truth. We, the media, message board nerds, general public, should be allowed to have some expectations. This isn't football where marked improvement may take 4 or more years. College hoops can be turned around swiftly. That has not been accomplished here and there are plenty of shadowing aspects about this program right now.
 

Swede said:
You think these guys want to cover bad teams?
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Yes, Reusse has openly admitted that many, many times. He openly admits he enjoys it more when teams are imploding and things are a disaster. Haven't you heard him on the radio? He almost daily pines for the days of Loveboat scandals and academic crisis and cheap owners who won't pay players.

Just a couple of weeks ago he was talking about some of his "fondest memories" and I'd say about 80% of the things he recalled as his "fondest memories" are nightmares for most Minnesota fans.

It is simply who he is.

And, in the interest of disclosure, I'm not a big fan of his writing, but thoroughly enjoy his radio show.
 

kindofgreen said:
for Tubby to vindicate his naysayers. Enough games for the team to make it into the tournament and then win a few games-which they should if they make it....


But that is the expectaiton and it is not unrealistic. Tubby has had the team long enough to recruit to his scheme ande personaltiy and if the Gophers flounder we are overpaying to say the least.....
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Yes...because a $2 mil per year coach shouldn't have his starting PG go out with an injury?????? WTF does his pay have to do with Nolan's injury?

Since last year, we have lost the following:

Cobbs - Backup pg
Royce - top 50 player
Paul Carter - expected starter instead of Rodney at 3 and Senior
Al Nolan - starting PG
Big Mo - 2nd best center on team IMO
Devoe - backup pg and sg

If you put those 6 players back on this team...we are a top 10 team and contend for the big ten title.

Tubby recruited the team we expected...but bad timing, bad luck and I am sure some bad choices by players and Tubby have left us with the team we currently have...and it aint nearly what we had hoped or expected...but to talk like Tubby planned it this way or didn't do the job recruiting is just proposterous...mistakes were made and players were lost...and we can debate it...but regardless...if the team Tubby recruited and wanted were healthy and here to play...we had the team that would contend.
 

tjgopher said:
Yes, Reusse has openly admitted that many, many times. He openly admits he enjoys it more when teams are imploding and things are a disaster. Haven't you heard him on the radio? He almost daily pines for the days of Loveboat scandals and academic crisis and cheap owners who won't pay players.

Just a couple of weeks ago he was talking about some of his "fondest memories" and I'd say about 80% of the things he recalled as his "fondest memories" are nightmares for most Minnesota fans.

It is simply who he is.

And, in the interest of disclosure, I'm not a big fan of his writing, but thoroughly enjoy his radio show.
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I listen to Reusse everyday and if the sarcasm isn't palpable to you, you ought to find something more straight forward to listen to. Why do you suppose the Twins get as much of a "pass" as they do from Reusse? They've been consistently decent for the last decade. Vikings had a one year flash in the pan last year and this year, just no good and so he pines for ridiculous Keith Millard scandals of the past. Its no surprise that you and I both had in mind a particular airing from a couple of weeks ago on this subject. It shows that Reusse doesn't openly hope for the teams he covers to fail and you sir exaggerate. Why don't they talk about the Timberwolves? They stink and are boring to boot. The Wild hardly gets any pub but now of late have shown improvement and get more airtime. They want to cover the relevant and to be relevant you have to be good.

I would wager, and you should be able to confirm this if you listen to Reusse daily, that after the Twins, Gopher basketball would be his second sports love. Some might argue that it would be the Vikings but if you really listen to Ruesse, read his writings, etc, he doesn't wax about the Vikings past or present with anywhere near the personal influence or affection as he does when he takes occasion to discuss Gopher basketball. Never do you see a Reusse feature like the article and subsequent air time spent on his lamenting what a trip to the Barn has become - a sterile, lifeless, colorless basketball even as compared to the games of the 70's, 80's and 90's.
 

I hate reading Reusse. He thrives on negativity and never has anything good to say.
 

Do you not think that Tubby bears at least some of the responsibility for the Cobbs, White, and Joseph situations?

I also think that it's a little bit of wishful thinking to say Walker is the 2nd best center on the team when he has played 115 minutes and scored 44 points against the weakest part of the schedule. Through Iverson's first 12 games his freshman year he had played 229 minutes and scored 93 points.

GopherinPhilly said:
Yes...because a $2 mil per year coach shouldn't have his starting PG go out with an injury?????? WTF does his pay have to do with Nolan's injury?

Since last year, we have lost the following:

Cobbs - Backup pg
Royce - top 50 player
Paul Carter - expected starter instead of Rodney at 3 and Senior
Al Nolan - starting PG
Big Mo - 2nd best center on team IMO
Devoe - backup pg and sg

If you put those 6 players back on this team...we are a top 10 team and contend for the big ten title.

Tubby recruited the team we expected...but bad timing, bad luck and I am sure some bad choices by players and Tubby have left us with the team we currently have...and it aint nearly what we had hoped or expected...but to talk like Tubby planned it this way or didn't do the job recruiting is just proposterous...mistakes were made and players were lost...and we can debate it...but regardless...if the team Tubby recruited and wanted were healthy and here to play...we had the team that would contend.
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Tubby's recruits will be Seniors next year, let's see how that goes ... I'm not sure why we want to throw out coaches every 3 years around here ... If Nolan wasn't hurt everyone would be happy, $hit happens
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Yes...because a $2 mil per year coach shouldn't have his starting PG go out with an injury?????? WTF does his pay have to do with Nolan's injury?

Since last year, we have lost the following:

Cobbs - Backup pg
Royce - top 50 player
Paul Carter - expected starter instead of Rodney at 3 and Senior
Al Nolan - starting PG
Big Mo - 2nd best center on team IMO
Devoe - backup pg and sg

If you put those 6 players back on this team...we are a top 10 team and contend for the big ten title.

Tubby recruited the team we expected...but bad timing, bad luck and I am sure some bad choices by players and Tubby have left us with the team we currently have...and it aint nearly what we had hoped or expected...but to talk like Tubby planned it this way or didn't do the job recruiting is just proposterous...mistakes were made and players were lost...and we can debate it...but regardless...if the team Tubby recruited and wanted were healthy and here to play...we had the team that would contend.
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How did it work for Monson when Bickerstaff and Bauer were injured and Pryz left?

Double standard and hypocrisy rule the hole.
 

justthefacts said:
Do you not think that Tubby bears at least some of the responsibility for the Cobbs, White, and Joseph situations?

I also think that it's a little bit of wishful thinking to say Walker is the 2nd best center on the team when he has played 115 minutes and scored 44 points against the weakest part of the schedule. Through Iverson's first 12 games his freshman year he had played 229 minutes and scored 93 points.
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No. No. Maybe.

Cobbs played as much (10 mins PT) as might be expected behind Nolen and Joseph. He would be starting now if he stayed.

White made his own choices.

Joseph, no one knows (publicly) what happened.
 

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