STrib: Gophs/Borton are 0-5 in the BT for the first time since 2000-01

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Borton

I don't really know what to say or how to say it where Borton is concerned. Let me start by saying that I took my family to the Final Four in New Orleans in 2004. Little did I know at that time that under her leadership, she would take the women's team to the depths they now find themselves in. She just doesn't have a clue who the most talented high school players are in this state. That is evidenced by the fact that she has offered a division 1 scholarship to Mikayla Bailey, who may be the third best player on her high school team. I am truly stunned by the offer. IMO we have to go in a different direction and hire a coach that can recognize talent and then successfully recruit that talent because Borton can't.
 

You could see Borton wasn't a great longterm solution about 3-4 years ago. She was great for the shot term with that talent cause she can coach. But she can't build a program. I look at her like I look at the west Virginia football coach…except he is leaving after 4 years and she stuck around too long
 

3 or 4 years ago several players left the team. Jamie Broback? and others. Never heard much on the reasons. Anyone have any info?
 

Agree that recruiting Minnesota is a big issue. I'm not saying you can always win with Minnesota kids and there are always going to be some, especially kids growing up in the metro area, who want to go "away" to college and the U isn't "away."

So it's a killer that Tayler Hill doesn't want to play here, or Cassie Rochel, or Theairra Taylor. But it's even more of a killer that Kamille Wahlin and Brittany Chambers don't get an offer.

It doesn't guarantee success to recruit all of the best Minnesota girls, but it probably guarantees failure to miss as often as we do.
 


It amazes me how Pam Freeze can win here and at Maryland. Coaching does matter. This is another example of dithering Joe Maturi and his pathetic management of this Athletic program, in sports that matter and pay the bills.
 

Gophers

Did they even recruit Alyssa Karel who is at Wisc???
 

station19 said:
3 or 4 years ago several players left the team. Jamie Broback? and others. Never heard much on the reasons. Anyone have any info?
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Yes. There was a bloc of players that were totally against the coach, but Jamie was the only one that left, although she had some other issues as well. One of my High School best friends is married to one of Bortons former players. I'd PM you if you really wanted to know more, but I dont want to air dirty laundry on here and get my buddy or his wife pissed at me.
 

I'm not the expert on this but here's what I've heard.

There are 3 issues.

1. Girls who flat out do not want to play at Minnesota. Tayler Hill, Cassie Rochel, Theiarra Taylor. There aren't a lot of them, at least that are known to me. But could these 3 make a difference or at least Hill and Rochel (Taylor has been hurt). You bet.

Hill was especially painful because the Gophers recruited her right up to the bitter end and in so doing lost the opportunity to go after Chambers, her classmate, or maybe Borton just didn't want her.

2. Girls who don't qualify academically. My info is hearsay and so I don't want to name any names, but I will say that 2 more players of the Hill-Rochel caliber may fit into this category and in one case the Gophers missed out on other options by staying after one of these girls. Alyssa Karel was one of the missed opportunities, or maybe Borton just didn't really want her.

3. Girls who Borton doesn't want and doesn't offer. Chambers and Karel are 2 such cases, though if Hill et al hadn't been in the way, maybe she would have gone after them, I don't know. Other such cases are Cory Montgomery, Kamille Wahlin, Kachine Alexander, Tara Steinbauer, Courtney Boylan. All have gone on to play in the Big 10 or other BCS.

In fairness to Borton, many of these were not regarded as big misses at the time. Alexander was injured. Karel was rated behind Angel Robinson, Wahlin and Boylan behind Buford, Chambers behind Tayler Hill, Montgomery behind Jenna Smith. But of course we didn't get Robinson or Hill or Smith.

My personal opinion is the Gophers could win with nothing but Minnesota kids, but you have to get them all. If you miss on Tayler Hill, you need a comparable replacement whether from Minnesota (unlikely) or elsewhere (hard to do). And of course you also need to be able to get your kids to realize their potential rather than stagnate for four years. You need to do both, it's not either/or.

Recruiting all the best Minnesota kids doesn't guarantee success, but missing as many as we have missed goes a long way toward guaranteeing failure.
 



Joel extended Pam's contract the year before last so he likely isn't going to risk another "payoff" by letting her go.

I am not sure if it is solely a recruiting issue. The Gophers seem to lose a lot of games where they have had significant leads. That would imply a coaching issue.

Bottom line is the program rapidly regressing back to the Cheryl Littlejohn era (pre Whalin) when they were getting crowds of 300 to 800 fans playing in the sports pavilion and getting 2 to 3 Big Ten wins a year.

Way to keep your finger on the pulse Joel.
 

millions2spare said:
It amazes me how Pam Freeze can win here and at Maryland. Coaching does matter. This is another example of dithering Joe Maturi and his pathetic management of this Athletic program, in sports that matter and pay the bills.
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1) It is Brenda Freese, not Pam Freeze.

2) It is Joel Maturi, not Joe Maturi.

3) Joel inherited Borton, he did not hire her. And, when exactly was he going to fire her? After she missed the NCAA in 2007, only three years after she took them to the Final Four? No. After she made the NCAA tourney in 2008? No. After she won an NCAA tourney game in 2009, winning against Notre Dame in South Bend? No. She's definitely put him in a tough spot. She's been just good enough to hang on to her job, but probably not downright terrible enough to be flat out fired. Until now. He could well pull the trigger after the season, especially if it continues to barrell down the hill and she misses the postseason altogether for the second straight year.

4) And, WBB does not pay the bills. It is a somewhat high profile sport, but does not earn a profit.
 

The sad part about the state of the women's program is that before the arrival of Tubby, the loudest I've ever heard The Barn was for the second-round demolition of K-State during their Final Four year.
 

sunnyday2 said:
.In fairness to Borton, many of these were not regarded as big misses at the time. Alexander was injured. Karel was rated behind Angel Robinson, Wahlin and Boylan behind Buford, Chambers behind Tayler Hill, Montgomery behind Jenna Smith. But of course we didn't get Robinson or Hill or Smith.
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I would call Jenna Smith a pretty big miss since she was the player of the year, but the Gophers never had a chance at her. She wanted to play out of the state of MN for college, so there was no way she was ever going to MN.
 



sunnyday2 said:
I'm not the expert on this but here's what I've heard.

There are 3 issues.

1. Girls who flat out do not want to play at Minnesota. Tayler Hill, Cassie Rochel, Theiarra Taylor. There aren't a lot of them, at least that are known to me. But could these 3 make a difference or at least Hill and Rochel (Taylor has been hurt). You bet.
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Are you saying that these girls wouldn't come to Minnesota no matter who the coach is? Or wouldn't come her solely because of Borton?
 

gopherbadgerman said:
Yes. There was a bloc of players that were totally against the coach, but Jamie was the only one that left, although she had some other issues as well. One of my High School best friends is married to one of Bortons former players. I'd PM you if you really wanted to know more, but I dont want to air dirty laundry on here and get my buddy or his wife pissed at me.
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Unless I'm mistaken, these players left in 2006: Liz Podominick, Jamie Broback, Brittney Davis, Lauren Lacey, Natasha Williams.
 

I started scratching my head on some of the coaching moves the year after the final four run. She had a lot of talented players and it seemed as though she was trying harder to manage minutes than win games. It wasn't long and the defections started. As was previously stated, given the history of the program it was at least still advancing to the tournament for a few years there. There really wasn't an obvious reason to let her go earlier. Along that line of tournament entries (and even some tournament wins), you can add "do you want to fire her the same year she has become the winningest coach in program history?" to the list for this year. It is a tight spot and the only thing that is clear is the program is stuck solidly in reverse. I went to some of those games before, during, and after the final four run and the atmosphere in the Barn was special. It had the look of a recruiting tool that could only be duplicated in a few select places in the country. All that is gone now. We are back to Littlejohn world. As this has played out, I guess it is time to exclaim once again how special Whalen was (not only in ability, but as a star for the image of the program). Won't ever forget that final four run. Minnesotans love a winner and it is just another reminder of the explosion that is tightly stored away, waiting for Gopher football success.
 

I am not sure if it is solely a recruiting issue.
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I agree with that. I said something about kids, whoever they are, not stagnating for 4 years.

Are you saying that these girls wouldn't come to Minnesota no matter who the coach is? Or wouldn't come her solely because of Borton?
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No way to know. I was just sayin' that when they were in that once in a lifetime selection process, they chose not to come to the U. Whether that was Borton or something else, maybe the veterinary medicine program wasn't up to par, I don't know. But it's something an AD would think about.

I also said that one of 3 reasons why MN kids don't come to the U is the want to go "away." 2nd reason was academics. Sometimes the 1st one and always the 3rd one--kids who are not offered--are the coach's fault. And the list of misses for those two reasons is growing. Misjudgment of the talent was sorta my main point.
 

Sunnyday2, I assume you're the person responsible for Minnesota Hoops Blog which I really enjoy. Are Banham and Hirt, if she recovers, good enough to turn this program in a different direction next year? You've got Loberg and Cotten to team with them and the freshmen. After Fox's difficulties her senior year and the disappointing play of the seniors last year, I'm not sure how much faith I have in Buford, Voight, and Mastey next year. We might be seeing the stagnation you refer to already happening with them.

Also, in a recent blog you indicated a possibility of Banham and Hirt maybe not coming here? Please tell me that's not a real possibility.
 

sunnyday2 said:
I'm not the expert on this but here's what I've heard.
2. Girls who don't qualify academically. My info is hearsay and so I don't want to name any names, but I will say that 2 more players of the Hill-Rochel caliber may fit into this category and in one case the Gophers missed out on other options by staying after one of these girls. Alyssa Karel was one of the missed opportunities, or maybe Borton just didn't really want her.

3. Girls who Borton doesn't want and doesn't offer. Chambers and Karel are 2 such cases, though if Hill et al hadn't been in the way, maybe she would have gone after them, I don't know. Other such cases are Cory Montgomery, Kamille Wahlin, Kachine Alexander, Tara Steinbauer, Courtney Boylan. All have gone on to play in the Big 10 or other BCS.

In fairness to Borton, many of these were not regarded as big misses at the time. Alexander was injured. Karel was rated behind Angel Robinson, Wahlin and Boylan behind Buford, Chambers behind Tayler Hill, Montgomery behind Jenna Smith. But of course we didn't get Robinson or Hill or Smith.
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Hill was NEVER coming to the U. Her dad wanted a high profile program and he was pretty sure that the U was on the decline (guess he was right). She did just enough to keep the locals interested in her recruiting - but everyone associated with D1 AAU basketball knew she was gone.

Karel is an honors nursing student at UW who was summa cum laude at Cretin Derham. She was definitely not an academic concern. She would have been a Gopher - if Borton would have shown any interest at all. Ask Ted Riverso about Alyssa sometime - she is the biggest recruiting mistake they have made. (ie - not pursuing a girl that really wanted to come)

Steinbauer was not recruited either. Smith was a cursory recruit - she was a good kid - but frankly - her dad make Kris Humphries dad look good. She was headed elsewhere.

Borton seems to have a very strong preference for larger, stronger, gals and tends to over look the slighter built, shorter gals. Has been a huge mistake as we continue to field one of the most unathletic teams in the Big Ten.

Borton needs to be sent packing - immediately - and let Riverso take over.
 

Hates Monikers said:
Unless I'm mistaken, these players left in 2006: Liz Podominick, Jamie Broback, Brittney Davis, Lauren Lacey, Natasha Williams.
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Yep but Broback was the only one that really left becsuse of Borton, as I understand it. Not saying there was no effect on the others, but there were more factors than just the coach on the others.
 

Departures

Davis was very upfront about leaving because of lack of playing time.

Borton simply has to go. I think that in spite of the fears that Maturi does not want to fire her, I wouldn't be surprised to see it actually happen in the next couple years. They have a lot good kids who excel in the classroom but the losses are mounting and no one sees that ending any time soon.
 


Insult to injury....one of the top 2012 MN high school recruits Kali Peschel of Sauk Centre just committed to Iowa today. She had an offer from Borton.
 

I believe you can win with Minnesota women playing basketball at the U. If some of our best kids weren't leaving the state and in particular the puke states of iowa and sconnie, we would be more than competitive.

I had two daughters play hs basketball on competitive teams in a good conference. Winning womens teams seem to limit their turnovers, play good D and make free throws. I have watched very little of this years Gopher team because I can't stand to watch teams that have more turnovers than made FG's. I have heard Pam speak to groups and think she is a good speaker, but that doesn't win games-is Geno available?
 

Women's Hoops and Women's Hockey have both plummeted to seldom plumbed depths recently.

Hockey, I can see the problem in that UMD offers an attractive alternative.

Basketball, all I see is a polarized program that seems to have toxic leadership. Maturi really f'ed up by letting Brenda Freese go... (or was that Chris Voelz's fault?)
 

Bring back Lindsay Whalen...

Lindsay Whalen should be the next coach at Minnesota. She could keep all the top Minnesota kids home and actually recruit a few national 4 star kids as well.

I have no doubt she could do an excellent job of coaching as well.
 

Ewert86PC said:
Maturi really f'ed up by letting Brenda Freese go... (or was that Chris Voelz's fault?)
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Didn't she go to Maryland because the person that she was in a relationship with was out there?
 

Didn't she go to Maryland because the person that she was in a relationship with was out there?
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No she left because she could not stand Voelz.
 

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