No shooters. Plain and simple

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Ogee Ogilthorpe

Ogee Ogilthorpe

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Is there a team in the top 25, or even a single BCS team, with a starting 5 that has ONE guy who can consistently hit a shot outside of 8 feet?

I thought the most eye-popping image of yesterday's game was when Rodney got the ball at the top of the key, one of the easiest 3-point shots on the floor, and David Lighty sagged off of him 6-8 feet, almost inside the FT line. And that's the guy playing the 3-spot.

Nolen, an incredibly solid PG in almost every respect, heaved up 5 three-pointers and literally did not come close once, including an air ball.

The Gophers are just too easy to guard when they don't have any shooters on the floor.


On a side note, OSU could literally not return ONE player from their starting 5 next year. Lighty, Lauderdale, and Diebler are seniors; Sullinger is most likely one and done, and it's POSSIBLE Buford could go (albeit unlikley). Next year might be the year attrition finally catches up with the Buckeyes.
 

Very True. You have to recruit shooters first. They have a natural talent which is hard and sometimes impossible to teach. Our freshmen have a lot to learn. But, they are better shooters then our starters. We lack experienced player that can shoot. Especially at the 1,2,and 3 positions. Your right. It's as simple as that.
 

That's been my plea to Tubby for a long time:

PLEASE RECRUIT SOME SHOOTERS!

Oh, and...

Quit playing A teams and B teams, EPSECIALLY when the B team is mostly freshmen with no confidence. I've been asking for this since at least year two, not just this year.
 

WilliamsArenaGuy said:
That's been my plea to Tubby for a long time:

PLEASE RECRUIT SOME SHOOTERS!

Oh, and...

Quit playing A teams and B teams, EPSECIALLY when the B team is mostly freshmen with no confidence. I've been asking for this since at least year two, not just this year.
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I think it's pretty obvious that Tubby prefers:

A) Defense to offense
B) As a result of A - Atleticism to shooting skills

Naturally, he, like any coach would prefer to recruit both in one player but guys who have both off the charts athleticism and can shoot the rock are also top 25 guys. It's not easy to get those guys. I seriously wonder if Tubby would have recruited Hoff for example. I doubt it. He seems unwilling to sacrifice the speed on defense for the basketball skills.

It looks like we may have a guy coming in that can do both in Andre Hollins. Lets hope so.
 

bga1 said:
I seriously wonder if Tubby would have recruited Hoff for example. I doubt it. He seems unwilling to sacrifice the speed on defense for the basketball skills.
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That's funny. I was just thinking the exact same thing. I bet he wouldn't have. Yet he is clearly his favorite player on the team who is given the most rope and trust.
 


bga1 said:
I seriously wonder if Tubby would have recruited Hoff for example. I doubt it.
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Have to agree. Based on his recruiting style and what he seems to look for in a player, I really doubt Tubby would've offered Hoffarber. I'd also say that he probably wouldn't have offered Leuer either (probably thinking he wasn't athletic enough for his size at the time). Who is the last lights out shooter Tubby has landed, or even seriously gone after? I can't think of one?

My guess is that he would've gone after Aldrich, and maybe Mbawke from that class (they were all the same class I think?), and then looked out of the state.
 

My solution would be

give Hollins more time. I think he is quite a good shooter. He will need more minutes to get confidence. But work more plays for him. He plays a nice defense too. There Tubby. I have it all figured out for you. Lucky you read the gopher hole.
 

There has been an ever-growing divide between athleticism and skill in the game of college basketball. Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant (and the recent one-and-done-rule) are to blame for this. Kids who grow up with elite athleticism basically squander the development of their skills because they don't see the point. They are already being fawned over by agents and shoe companies and NBA scouts before they even get into college, and they are getting drafted purely based on potential. Anybody who actually DOES have great skill and athleticism is playing in the NBA after one year, which deepens the divide. See Williams, Rodney.

There are far more schools out there these days that are trying to win like Tubby with athletes than there are guys like Bo who are trying to win with skill. Notre Dame is among the best this year in the "skill" category, outside of Duke (who has it all). UW has traditionally held that spot, and aren't too bad this year.

One of the risks of trying to win the way Bo does is the state of the Iowa program. Todd Lickliter basically tried to do it Bo's way and burned a once proud program to the ground. If you lose, fans REALLY turn on you. Heck, even if you WIN fans can turn on you (see NCST and Herb Sendek)
 

It's a shame, because so many great shooters come out of this state and are there for Minnesota's picking.

Jake Sullivan
Steve Sir
Ryan Wittman
Nick Jacobson
Jon Bryant
Ben Woodside

...and more I'm probably forgetting. I remember just about falling over when I heard that Monson didn't want Sir.
 



Doc1001 said:
give Hollins more time. I think he is quite a good shooter. He will need more minutes to get confidence. But work more plays for him. He plays a nice defense too. There Tubby. I have it all figured out for you. Lucky you read the gopher hole.
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Hollins definitely has great shooting potential, just lacking some confidence right now. He'll be a good shooter going forward. But he noted the starting five, and yes, in the starting five, we only pretty much have one shooter. As far as Tubby recruiting shooters though, I'm not sure what he's supposed to do? I mean, I wouldn't change his '08 or '09 classes and the 2010 class did have a couple guys who can shoot in Hollins and Big Mo, and actually Mav has shown a pretty good shooting ability so far. I think Oto has some range as well. Coming up next year, Andre Hollins has range, not so much Joe, but he can develop. But yes, the starting lineup has one shooter and that will be a problem. But at the same time, this team has some great defenders in that lineup and that can take you awfully far as well.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
Have to agree. Based on his recruiting style and what he seems to look for in a player, I really doubt Tubby would've offered Hoffarber. I'd also say that he probably wouldn't have offered Leuer either (probably thinking he wasn't athletic enough for his size at the time). Who is the last lights out shooter Tubby has landed, or even seriously gone after? I can't think of one?

My guess is that he would've gone after Aldrich, and maybe Mbawke from that class (they were all the same class I think?), and then looked out of the state.
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We went hard after jesperson this year.
 


From the Barn said:
We went hard after jesperson this year.
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Jesperson can also play some defense and go off the dribble some as well. Shooters are great to have but ultimately the easiest to take out of an offense if a defense has the committment. OSU shut down Blake because he can't make a lot of plays off the dribble.

I don't buy the athleticism as a curse argument however. Show some desire to learn how to shoot, dribble etc. Athletic and good shooting do not have to be mutually exclusive.
 



Gold Vision said:
And Ogelsby.
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And we have Oto who supposedly can shoot too.
Tubby isn't allergic to recruiting people that can shoot. He is allergic to guys that can only shoot, and we can get players that shoot and bring something more to the table, that seems like a good thing.
 

In the interem, I would like to see Tubby tell Rodney Williams "we need you to score 20 a game." Let the kid miss a few without getting jerked from the game when a shot doesn't fall.
 

Tubby recruited shooters, they just left the team. White, Joseph, and Carter could all shoot the 3. Nothing you can do about that now. You have to play with what you have.
 

USAFChief said:
In the interem, I would like to see Tubby tell Rodney Williams "we need you to score 20 a game." Let the kid miss a few without getting jerked from the game when a shot doesn't fall.
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Rodney couldn't sit in a gym by himself and score 20 on jumpshots in 40 minutes. Rodney getting more shots is NOT one of the top 10 issues this team faces. If anyone needs more touches my list includes and in no particular;

Trevor
Ralph
Blake
Austin
 

Run...Run and Run...we can't shoot, so let our athletes be athletic and run till they drop. Loved the action in the second half last night...should play that wide open at all times and let the chips fall where they may.
 

We need Rodney Williams to generate more offense or we simply can't keep pace. Williams must be turned loose and he must improve his shooting touch and confidence if this team will have any chance to reach its potential. Teams sagging inside off of Williams is the main reason our offense is so stagnant. Williams MUST drain some shots or this season will go nowhere fast. Once he hits a few, teams will guard him more honestly, and he'll be able to take them off the dribble, creating scoring chances inside. Until he does start shooting, teams will continue to sag and we'll be reliant on great defense and getting to the FT line. We're not gonna have many games where we shoot 24 for 27 from the FT line...
 

Tubby DID go after two VERY hard this recruiting cycle. He just came up on the short end of the stick. Do we not remember jesperson and oglesby? Oglesby is a hoffarber clone.

edit: did not read thread before posting :D
 

Had he coached Trent Tucker, Tubby would have blinded him in one eye because Tubby hates good shooters.

If Tubby was the coach when Williams Arena was built, he would have insisted it be an open-air stadium so that wind gusts would prevent anyone from shooting a good percentage.

Tubby only feeds false information to Charley Walters because he can't stand the idea of giving "Shooter" a good opportunity.
 

JackiO said:
Tubby DID go after two VERY hard this recruiting cycle. He just came up on the short end of the stick. Do we not remember jesperson and oglesby? Oglesby is a hoffarber clone.

edit: did not read thread before posting :D
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If we gave every coach credit for going after guys that he didn't get Tim Brewster would be the best coach in history and Monson would still be here.

You get credit for who you bring in - not for who you miss or for those that come and don't stay.
Right now we don't have many guys that can shoot well. Does Tubby want great shooters? Of course. His apparent lean when choosing is guys that can play defense and are athletic. The sacrifice - thus far has been on the shooting and fundamentals side.
 

bga1 said:
If we gave every coach credit for going after guys that he didn't get Tim Brewster would be the best coach in history and Monson would still be here.

You get credit for who you bring in - not for who you miss or for those that come and don't stay.
Right now we don't have many guys that can shoot well. Does Tubby want great shooters? Of course. His apparent lean when choosing is guys that can play defense and are athletic. The sacrifice - thus far has been on the shooting and fundamentals side.
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So it's fair for you to criticize Tubby by saying he probably wouldn't have recruited guys that committed long before he became the Gopher coach (Hoffarber, Leuer), but it's not fair to point out that he actually did aggressively recruit excellent shooters like Jesperson and Oglesby in the most recent recruiting cycle?

Makes perfect sense.
 

playhosea! said:
So it's fair for you to criticize Tubby by saying he probably wouldn't have recruited guys that committed long before he became the Gopher coach (Hoffarber, Leuer)
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In fairness, I was one of the people that agreed w/them on this point. Given our class that year, I believe Tubby would've gone after Aldrich, maybe Mbakwe, and then looked outside of the state. If he couldn't get Aldrich or Mbakwe, he would've probably been looking at the others outstate since he would have theoretically been recruiting them for some time. I just don't see him offering 4-5 players in-state from the same class, especially *at the time* borderline Top 100 recruits in Leuer and Hoffarber. Likewise, I doubt he would've gone after Nolen either (who will wind up with a number of Gopher records by the end of his career). Could be wrong though?
 


playhosea! said:
So it's fair for you to criticize Tubby by saying he probably wouldn't have recruited guys that committed long before he became the Gopher coach (Hoffarber, Leuer), but it's not fair to point out that he actually did aggressively recruit excellent shooters like Jesperson and Oglesby in the most recent recruiting cycle?

Makes perfect sense.
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I didn't view that as a criticism. Maybe he would have recruited someone a lot better. I didn't say he wouldn't have recruited Leuer (another poster added that)- he may well have. I opined that he probably wouldn't have recruited Hoff. I don't think those are criticisms - those are assessments of what his recruiting style and priorities seem to be.

As for criticizing, I think that at the end of the day who you get is who you get credit for or criticized for. For years Georgetown had squads that laid bricks from the outside but they had dominant big men that got them a long way in the NCAAs. John Thompson had some shooters but his deal was big, tough brutish defensive squads that intimidated you - and he won big with that theme. If a coach recruits that way and wins big that way then who is to complain.

Right now it appears that the athletes we have are having a tough time performing the half court offense he wants. It looks, from an amateur outsider's point of view like he needs to either vary the style of play or recruti some different types of players. However, I fully realize he is a hall of fame coach and we are happy he's here. ( I am happy he's here BTW- he's a good man and a good coach)
 

bga1 said:
I didn't view that as a criticism. Maybe he would have recruited someone a lot better. I didn't say he wouldn't have recruited Leuer (another poster added that)- he may well have. I opined that he probably wouldn't have recruited Hoff. I don't think those are criticisms - those are assessments of what his recruiting style and priorities seem to be.

As for criticizing, I think that at the end of the day who you get is who you get credit for or criticized for. For years Georgetown had squads that laid bricks from the outside but they had dominant big men that got them a long way in the NCAAs. John Thompson had some shooters but his deal was big, tough brutish defensive squads that intimidated you - and he won big with that theme. If a coach recruits that way and wins big that way then who is to complain.

Right now it appears that the athletes we have are having a tough time performing the half court offense he wants. It looks, from an amateur outsider's point of view like he needs to either vary the style of play or recruti some different types of players. However, I fully realize he is a hall of fame coach and we are happy he's here. ( I am happy he's here BTW- he's a good man and a good coach)
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No offense but he is not HOF coach (yet). Your (parentheses) are accurate - good coach. I'd say very good. Not HOF (yet).
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Run...Run and Run...we can't shoot, so let our athletes be athletic and run till they drop. Loved the action in the second half last night...should play that wide open at all times and let the Chips fall where they may.
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Put Armelin in for RS3, press, and push the ball! Ralph can do just about as much from the bench as he's done on the floor in the Big10 games so far. He has been almost useless... and he doesn't seem particularly bothered by it.
 

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