O.U.T.C.O.A.C.H.E.D.

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Carlson 79

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...again.

Offensively, we play as individuals. Purdue is coached to play as a team. Just like Northwestern is coached to play as a team.

Even in the comeback in Madison, we got it done offensively with individual moves in the 2nd half.
We did and generally DO play good team defense, but Tubby is getting outcoached badly in the Big Ten now. Our quality of shot is nowhere near our opponents'. It shows in the stats.

I'm willing to withhold total judgment on Tubby until he gets his own athletes here, but right now I've got to say I'm getting nervous. Individual talent will take a team only so far.
 

Carlson 79 said:
...again.

Offensively, we play as individuals. Purdue is coached to play as a team. Just like Northwestern is coached to play as a team.

Even in the comeback in Madison, we got it done offensively with individual moves in the 2nd half.
We did and generally DO play good team defense, but Tubby is getting outcoached badly in the Big Ten now. Our quality of shot is nowhere near our opponents'. It shows in the stats.

I'm willing to withhold total judgment on Tubby until he gets his own athletes here, but right now I've got to say I'm getting nervous. Individual talent will take a team only so far.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say Tubby was necessarily out-coached. We were still in that game...and imagine if we had hit more than 16% from the 3pt line, and 28% from FG range. Some were poor choices for shots, but a lot were good shots that just didn't fall (I can think in particular, there were 2-3 of Blake's that were so close). If just a handful more of shots would of fallen, we would of had the game. I'm not saying there weren't other areas we could of improved on, but shooting killed us...not Tubby.
 

Agreed, GL. We were by no means put away and would have been right there had we been able to buy a basket, any basket. Purdue, now 100% shows why they were picked by many to win the BT.
 

Carlson 79 said:
Our quality of shot is nowhere near our opponents'. It shows in the stats.
Click to expand...

Pound the ball into the post, let the young bigs learn, open up the floor for better jumpers and/or drives to the bucket. It's like Tubby said in the post game interview: they need to find someone who is willing to feed the post.
 

But the post must be able to follow through. This is our biggest deficit - inexperience at the post. Not Tubby. Not Al. And it can be worked upon. The sky is not falling.
 


The only time we have a post presence is when they get an offensive rebound and a putback. Iverson has no moves whatsoever and really needs to develop some but RSIII has showed some pretty good moves down low. I'd like to see Johnson work the post more often as well instead of hanging around the perimeter. He's got the length to get up over people.
 

Against Northwestern I felt like we didn't have an answer for their 1-3-1 and therefore Carmody's adjustments > Tubby's adjustments so I agree in that game.

However, this wasn't about coaching. This was about Purdue playing much tighter defense against us than we played against them. This was about Minnesota having 3x more TO's than assists. This was about Minnesota shooting very poorly on the few open shots they had (that weren't at the free throw line).
 

You bandwagon jumpers are so darn reacationary. Every win is cause for a contract exctension. Every loss means we are frauds and the season is over. Give it a rest. This was a disappointing loss and nothing more.

In the Big Ten there are only about 4 games that you 'must win' (home against PSU, Iowa, NW and Indiana) and 4 games that you probably will lose (@ Wisky, MSU, OSU and Ill.) The other 10 are toss-ups and the goal is simply to win 6 or 7 of them. So far we are 2-3 in these toss-up games, but won one of the 4 we figured to lose. If we can win 3 or 4 of the 5 remaining toss-up games we will be fine. This needs to start Sunday at Indiana.
 

Carlson 79 said:
...again.

Offensively, we play as individuals. Purdue is coached to play as a team. Just like Northwestern is coached to play as a team.

Even in the comeback in Madison, we got it done offensively with individual moves in the 2nd half.
We did and generally DO play good team defense, but Tubby is getting outcoached badly in the Big Ten now. Our quality of shot is nowhere near our opponents'. It shows in the stats.

I'm willing to withhold total judgment on Tubby until he gets his own athletes here, but right now I've got to say I'm getting nervous. Individual talent will take a team only so far.
Click to expand...


holy schit dude

when we do the teamwork stuff and swing the ball and swing the ball and swing the ball......we are hopeless on offense.....we are stuck on the perimeter because no one can go one on one

our only chance to score is to break someone down

did you know that in BASKETBALL 101...... when the other team is a great defending team......if you dont have someone who can take his guy off the dribble you have major , major problems

purdue could take his guy individually, penetrate, get the defense broken down, then kick it out for a WIDE OPEN THREE or drop it inside for an EASY BUCKET...........it was all started with 'one on one, break you down basketball'

WE HAVE ABSOLUELY NO ONE WHO CAN DO THAT

again.......that is why i keep asking if royce and williams can break you down.......we will always be this team if they cant
 



Must Disagree

Moonlight said:
Agreed, GL. We were by no means put away and would have been right there had we been able to buy a basket, any basket. Purdue, now 100% shows why they were picked by many to win the BT.
Click to expand...

Gophs down by 16 points, only way they were able to climb above 10 down was the intentional foul. Purdue kicked our butts, plain and simple.

2 games in a row where tubby had no answer for the opposing teams plan of attack. Painter had a great game plan.

Purdue is a good team. However, Hummel was waaaaay less than 100% - he was grimacing and you could tell it was tough for him. I dont think Purdue has any better atheletes tan MN. Kid who scored 20 (#25) was a So, I think.

As for the shots falling - if Kevin Burleson's shots that were in and out would have fallen, he would have scored 20 a game. Shoulda, woulda coulda......
 

Not so

TruthTeller said:
Gophs down by 16 points, only way they were able to climb above 10 down was the intentional foul.

2 games in a row where tubby had no answer for the opposing teams plan of attack.
Click to expand...
In the game I watched, the Gophers made it a 2 possession game several times down the stretch. They were able to make shots to win the game in Wisconsin and couldn't here. Sztay with the facts.
 

Moonlight said:
In the game I watched, the Gophers made it a 2 possession game several times down the stretch. They were able to make shots to win the game in Wisconsin and couldn't here. Sztay with the facts.
Click to expand...

I will sztay will the facts.

The Gophs have been behind for the past few games, some games way behind. In fact, they had their rears handed to them. Those are facts.

Coming from behind game after game, of course they will make it a "x" psossession game at some point.

Did you feel comfortable being down 2 3 pointers for a for seconds moonlight?
 

"In the game I watched, the Gophers made it a 2 possession game several times down the stretch. They were able to make shots to win the game in Wisconsin and couldn't here."

Specifically, I think there were three occasions where the team had the ball down 5 and came up empty on the other end. If, at any time, one of those shots fall (a couple were 3s to cut the gap to 2) it becomes a "game on" scenario. Instead, shooters missed the bucket, Purdue bellied the lead back to 10-14, and the next Gopher run was spent trying to cut the lead again.

There were a half-dozen moments in this game where one made shot by the Gophers could have changed everything.
 



Exactly

Purdue thoroughly controlled this game, but as parkinglotgopher said there were several opportunities -- most importantly with plenty of time left on the clock -- for the Gophers to make it a one-possession game. The Gophers just couldn't hit that one shot or make that one big play. If we make it a one possession game, who knows, maybe the Boilers finally feel some true "game pressure"? The Boilers staved us off every single time it looked like we might get over the hump.
 

TruthTeller said:
Gophs down by 16 points, only way they were able to climb above 10 down was the intentional foul. Purdue kicked our butts, plain and simple.

2 games in a row where tubby had no answer for the opposing teams plan of attack. Painter had a great game plan.

Purdue is a good team. However, Hummel was waaaaay less than 100% - he was grimacing and you could tell it was tough for him. I dont think Purdue has any better atheletes tan MN. Kid who scored 20 (#25) was a So, I think.

As for the shots falling - if Kevin Burleson's shots that were in and out would have fallen, he would have scored 20 a game. Shoulda, woulda coulda......
Click to expand...

Purdue has MUCH better athletes....
Look at JaJuan Johnson, legit 6'10..can run the floor and score all over the court, not just down low. Who do we have that is his size and can do what he does? Nobody.
E'Twan Moore and Keaton Grant. Both 6'4 guards...who can run with, score, and defend with the best of them, who do we have that's similar? Nobody.
You add a 6'8 healthy Hummel to this team and they are very, very, good.
We just don't have the level of players that Purdue has....
 

As Goldteam clearly states we need players who can score by breaking their defender down. Both LW and Al at times can .. but more often that not they get out of control when trying to ... It's a major weakness on this team.
 

My comfort level is not at issue here. The truth is, and I agree with SS and Parkinglot that we stayed within striking distance, had time and opportunity. The better team won last night.
Purdue is a year ahead of us.
(Oh, and that wasn't a typo)
 


Carlson 79 said:
...again.

Offensively, we play as individuals. Purdue is coached to play as a team. Just like Northwestern is coached to play as a team.

Even in the comeback in Madison, we got it done offensively with individual moves in the 2nd half.
We did and generally DO play good team defense, but Tubby is getting outcoached badly in the Big Ten now. Our quality of shot is nowhere near our opponents'. It shows in the stats.

I'm willing to withhold total judgment on Tubby until he gets his own athletes here, but right now I've got to say I'm getting nervous. Individual talent will take a team only so far.
Click to expand...

I didn't get a chance to see the game last night, but shooting 27 percent leads me to believe that it was just poor execution. Had we turned the ball over a ton (like at Northwestern), I'd tend to agree with you.
 

For everybody who has no coaching experience and just watches the games from the stands/couch.... Don't question Tubby's coaching. Unless you have won a Nat'l Championship, just stop making these threads. I would be willing to bet $1,000,000 that Tubby is not coaching these kids to play as individuals. I think they just panic and throw up bad shots when the other team goes on a little run.
 

We were very, very close to being blown out in our own building vs. Purdue. We got lots of bailout foul calls in our favor and hit virtually every FT to keep us from being blown OUT.

We often had 4 guys standing around on offense, with our dribbler being pushed way out on the perimeter. We had virtually no inside-out flow at all. You can break down a defense in a number of ways, not just having a skilled ballhandler beating his man off the dribble. A great way to do it is with off-ball movement, setting a few screens, and crisp passes. There is no way a defender can run as fast as a pass can travel!

Bottom line for me: the jury is still very much out on Coach Smith. He's admitted this week that he needs to change some of the offense. Let's see how the implementation goes. I[m pulling for him!
 

Thee is one person to finger point for the Gopher offensive scheme: Tubby. Tubby has allowed the Gophers to play a playground style where the guard penetrate and everyone else stands around not knowing what to expect or to do. Or someone lets fly a 3.

As I posted in another thread, I want to see a 5 guys in constant motion offense. weakside cuts, backdoors, high/lows, post up DJ and Carter, and more drives by guys who can handle themselves in the paint ala DJ, Carter, Bostock. And when the bigs get the ball down low, they are expected to put a move to the hoop unless 2 timed. I hate it when the bigs pass the ball right back out. The guard needs to recognize when to penetrate with the flow of the offense.

Come on Tubby. Get an identity for your team.
 

Carlson 79 said:
...again.

Offensively, we play as individuals. Purdue is coached to play as a team. Just like Northwestern is coached to play as a team.

Even in the comeback in Madison, we got it done offensively with individual moves in the 2nd half.
We did and generally DO play good team defense, but Tubby is getting outcoached badly in the Big Ten now. Our quality of shot is nowhere near our opponents'. It shows in the stats.

I'm willing to withhold total judgment on Tubby until he gets his own athletes here, but right now I've got to say I'm getting nervous. Individual talent will take a team only so far.
Click to expand...

Tubby has won over 72% of his career games (ranks 13th best % among active coaches) so he gets "outcoached" about 28% of the time.

Rick Pitino has won 73% and gets outcoached 27% of the time.

Tom Izzo has won 70% of his career games, ergo gets outcoached 30% of his games.
 

Nort73 said:
For everybody who has no coaching experience and just watches the games from the stands/couch.... Don't question Tubby's coaching. Unless you have won a Nat'l Championship, just stop making these threads. I would be willing to bet $1,000,000 that Tubby is not coaching these kids to play as individuals. I think they just panic and throw up bad shots when the other team goes on a little run.
Click to expand...

You have a million to gamble with?!! lucky
 

Our starting five are going to have a tough time, we'll win with depth. That means, ala haskins era, we'll be in a deficit in most games as we wear them down. Same would have happened against Purdue, we just couldn't drop the ball throught the hole.
 

"O.U.T.C.O.A.C.H.E.D." B.S.

It appears as though some Kentucky "fans" are back on our boards. I have noticed especially with Nolan, that he isn't passing the ball as he was earlier in the year. Instead he drives to the basket and usually puts up a brick. I almost think he is jealous of the all the press Westbrook has received lately. Nolan's assists average has to be going down along with his turnovers increasing. Nolan must go back to passing the ball around like a point guard is suppose to do.

Anyone who questions Tubby's ability doesn't know basketball at all. Tubby is the best coach MN has ever had. Our team is young and will need to grow and get stronger with out a doubt. I can't believe that some MN fans have given up on Tubby already. Watch what happens in the next 2 years with our basketball and then the Kentucky "fans" will be long gone.
 

No one's giving up on Tubby. We just happen to have high expectations of him, and this program on the rise. He needs to make some between-game adjustments. Let's see if he's up to it.
 

Runext07 said:
It appears as though some Kentucky "fans" are back on our boards. I have noticed especially with Nolan, that he isn't passing the ball as he was earlier in the year. Instead he drives to the basket and usually puts up a brick. I almost think he is jealous of the all the press Westbrook has received lately. Nolan's assists average has to be going down along with his turnovers increasing. Nolan must go back to passing the ball around like a point guard is suppose to do.

Anyone who questions Tubby's ability doesn't know basketball at all. Tubby is the best coach MN has ever had. Our team is young and will need to grow and get stronger with out a doubt. I can't believe that some MN fans have given up on Tubby already. Watch what happens in the next 2 years with our basketball and then the Kentucky "fans" will be long gone.
Click to expand...

Good point. The thread originator is a newbie.

Kentucky is 34-17 since the change. Minnesota is 36-17. I'd think Kentucky fans would worry more about that.

Billy Gillispie has won 64% of his career games but got outcoached the other 36% of the time.
 

FYI, the "thread originator" has been around a lot longer than you may think. I came over to the re-vamped site recently, true, but was on the last site for years, posting only occasionally there.

I'm a U of M grad (1979) and have been a Gopher fan for nearly 50 years. I played high school hoops, and two other sports in college.

I wish Coach Smith all the best of success here. I'm merely stating that I have some concerns...there are patterns with this team that are repeating, and must be changed for us to get where we all want to go.
 

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