Westbrook

[Jim V2]

I don't know he keeps getting pt. He's a cancer on the team--only 2 reb and no assists.


:cool:

[From the Barn]

Apologies will be accepted here.

[WadeHokenson]

HAHAHA.....wow.

[GopherLady]

Ummm, I think that's what you call sarcasm from Jim V2 (hence the ;)) - unless you're being sarcastic in calling him out, From the Barn?

[From the Barn]

It was more directed to all those criticizing LW last week.

[Swaggerson]

GL, thanks for the scoreboard shot...it is traveling around company HQ this morning.

[SelectionSunday]

Was someone suggesting Lawrence would be good in a "6 feet and under league". Makes me wonder if that person has ever bothered taking the time to see what Westbrook contributes to the Gophers. He seems to be doing OK in the Big 10, too.

[TruthTeller]

I don't know he keeps getting pt. He's a cancer on the team--only 2 reb and no assists.


:cool:

What is fun to see is LW and Johnson playing so well. Just a short time ago there were so many doubters of these two guys.

Nice to see them mature on the court and prove that they belong.

[Drex96]

I don't know he keeps getting pt. He's a cancer on the team--only 2 reb and no assists.


:cool:

I'll bite.

Ask anyone whose "cancer" is in remission how they got fooled by a "clean bill of health" prognosis only to find themselves on their death bed 6 months later.

I'll wait until we complete our course of "chemo" before I'll retract statement number two (didn't make statement number one) because I saw signs of "cancer" when he gave up on defense last night. And don't forget that "chemo" tends to kill a lot of "healthy" cells in the process so be careful what you wish for...

Carter and Bostick are the "chemo" and Westbrook is finally stepping up his game after spending some time on the bench. Good for him and most importantly, good for the Gophers LAST NIGHT. My prognosis of a "clean bill of health" is still out. For the record, I'm hoping for a full recovery and at least a Sweet Sixteen appearance.

[Drex96]

Apologies will be accepted here.

Don't hold your breath.

Maybe if we see the same or similar performance from Westbrook at MSU for a win, otherwise you can forget it.

[SelectionSunday]

Yes, we have better players playing with him now, but Westbrook still arguably has been our best player and undoubtedly our fiercest competitor the last two seasons. Respectfully, I just don't understand some of the wrath Lawrence is receiving.

[Go Gophs]

At time he forces it and that cannot happen in close games with great teams. This team has a shot IMO, to contend for the BT title and a top 5 seed in the big dance. Sweet sixteen would not surprise me either.
He was cold blooded last night at the line. Reminded me of Bobby J taking the game over and telling everyone that we will not lose.

[SelectionSunday]

I don't think anyone has said Westbrook's game is flawless. But my gosh, what I've seen with my own eyes is a guy who's busted his ass and played a lot of good basketball for the Gophers in the past two seasons. Plain and simple, he's a very important piece of this program's awakening.

[From the Barn]

I think people have forgotten what it is like to have a scorer who actually wants the ball.

[GoGoGophers]

Don't hold your breath.

Maybe if we see the same or similar performance from Westbrook at MSU for a win, otherwise you can forget it.
:rolleyes:

Why stop there? Why not demand he drops 29 in the Final Four before you even think about it. Wait, no, the championship game. Your misguided opinions/personal dislikes are what matters, right?

Some of you people have no clue...

[SelectionSunday]

oops

[GoGoGophers]

I don't think anyone has said Westbrook's game is flawless. But my gosh, what I've seen with my own eyes is a guy who's busted his ass and played a lot of good basketball for the Gophers in the past two seasons. Plain and simple, he's a very important piece of this program's revivial.

Absolutely spot on.

The Gophers do not, no way, no how, win last night without Westbrook. What else do people want?

[From the Barn]

And how many other games do we lose the last two seasons without him at the free throw line?

[shikenjanski]

This guy wanted the ball and he delivered last night. He was confident and it showed.

I'm not sure, but are people looking for "ONE GUY" to step up in crunch time? The way things are shaping up, we very well might have two or three or "THE GUYS" on this team. I think Carter and Bostick's grapes have gotten bigger this past week.

[Mayne Street]

There were a few times Bostick got the ball at the top of the key and you could just see that he HAD to score. He got to the bucket and had some easy layups. I'd like to see him assert himself like that more often.

Also, still have the image of Bostick receiving a great pass from Carter in OT and throwing it down. I still have goosebumps!

[Drex96]

Yes, we have better players playing with him now, but Westbrook still arguably has been our best player and undoubtedly our fiercest competitor the last two seasons. Respectfully, I just don't understand some of the wrath Lawrence is receiving.


Respectfully, what I've seen from Westbrook is not "fierce" competitiveness--he's a stats hound. This season alone I can name two games (not counting the "fluffy non-cons") where there is also plenty of evidence of this: Louisville and MSU.

"Fierce competitors" show up for THOSE games, not just the ones where there's an opportunity to improve his PPG stat. Most of his points come after the outcome of the game has already been decided--just so happened that his late game shots actually counted for something in the Badger game. And I'll give him this--he's by far our best free throw shooter.

IMO Carter, Bostick, Johnson, Hoffarber and yes, Nolen were the "fierce competitors" against the Badgers. They wore down the less athletic Badgers and Westbrook had a "break out" game in his specialty--scoring points. He pretty much gave up playing defense about 6 minutes into the 2nd half, but it's a big win, so give him credit for that--it's all good.

[Drex96]

:rolleyes:
Your misguided opinions/personal dislikes are what matters, right?


Nope, just yours.

[SelectionSunday]

We're seeing two completely different players. We shall agree to disagree.

[Drex96]

We're seeing two completely different players. We shall agree to disagree.

Fair enough, SS.

[From the Barn]

Were the first nine points in the PSU game after the outcome was determined?

[Drex96]

Were the first nine points in the PSU game after the outcome was determined?

I think my opinion has been clearly stated. If you want to stand out in the frozen snow and continue the pissing match, have at it.

Westbrook having a career night against the Badgers still doesn't remove my reservations but if it makes YOU happy, BE HAPPY. I celebrate the victory and give credit to the team.

If you want to meet the bus with a "Welcome Home Superstar" banner for Westbrook on Sunday night, have at it--just don't expect me to be there waving my "Gold Out" pon poms.

As SS stated: "we'll just have to agree to disagree."

[From the Barn]

Sorry, the facts just aren't on your side, and when that happens, your opinion is irrelevant.

[thebarnsback]

Respectfully, what I've seen from Westbrook is not "fierce" competitiveness--he's a stats hound. This season alone I can name two games (not counting the "fluffy non-cons") where there is also plenty of evidence of this: Louisville and MSU.

"Fierce competitors" show up for THOSE games, not just the ones where there's an opportunity to improve his PPG stat. Most of his points come after the outcome of the game has already been decided--just so happened that his late game shots actually counted for something in the Badger game. And I'll give him this--he's by far our best free throw shooter.

IMO Carter, Bostick, Johnson, Hoffarber and yes, Nolen were the "fierce competitors" against the Badgers. They wore down the less athletic Badgers and Westbrook had a "break out" game in his specialty--scoring points. He pretty much gave up playing defense about 6 minutes into the 2nd half, but it's a big win, so give him credit for that--it's all good.


Hoffarber was a fierce competiter? What did he do to be fierce?, he got one steal that came right to him. He was horrendous last night.

I dont like to get down on a kid or anything, but I have been very unimpressed with him his whole career. Yes he is a great 3 point shooter, hes in a slump right now but he will shoot out of it. Other than shoot threes he does not bring anything else to the table. Horrible defender, not quick or fast enough to be a guard, cannot drive, isnt tough, and he can't rebound in traffic.

Saying Hoffarber was a fierce competiter is being a total homer. IMO he should take a seat next to KP and big JW on the bench.

He makes threes and has two huge shots in his career which is good but he isnt a consintant force at all and probably never will be.

Sorry for the rant but........... it is just my opinion.

[GSLgopher]

I know it's your opinion, but man "What you've just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." -Billy Madison

Blake Hoffarber is a winner. He may not put up gaudy numbers, but he does all the little things needed to win. A big rebound here, a thread the needle pass there. Or what about him being handed the point guard duties in crunch time at the Kohl Center? For some shooters who are in a slump, it affects their whole game. Although Blake's shots aren't falling, he is still a regular contributor to helping us win. That is my opinion and I believe many gopherholers will side with me on that.

[Jim V2]

Ummm, I think that's what you call sarcasm from Jim V2 (hence the ;)) - unless you're being sarcastic in calling him out, From the Barn?

Of course you're right, GL, and I even fessed up on another thread when I later discovered somebody had beaten me to this punch.

People can disagree on relative strengths and weaknesses, but calling someone a cancer???

Personally, I think everyone on that team is helping in their own way to make it a better team, and I'm grateful to all of them.

[thebarnsback]

didn't I infact say he is a great shooter? Yes I did! Other than shoot threes he doesn't do much, sure he can make a nice pass, get a loose ball, or a decent rebound, occasionally but aren't ALL D1 players supposed to be able to do that? Yes!!!! if you can't it's sad!!!!!

He is a great 3 point shooter and yes he is in a bad slump but when you are in a slump you don't get out of it by taking bad contested threes. You put the ball on the deck and go to the hoop tryin to get fouled.

If anyone thinks he is in the top five MVP on this team it is sad and you are a huge homer.

Please respond and tell me what he does that makes him more valuable than any regular player on this team.

[ShowinGoldyLove]

Other than shoot threes he does not bring anything else to the table. Horrible defender, not quick or fast enough to be a guard, cannot drive, isnt tough, and he can't rebound in traffic.

He makes threes and has two huge shots in his career which is good but he isnt a consintant force at all and probably never will be.

Wow. Such an asinine post I feel that much dumber for reading it.

I think you should take it up with Tubby for playing him too much then because Tubby must not know what he's doing to be playing him the 3rd most minutes on the team. Or Louisville, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, etc. for offering such a terrible player a scholarship. It's not like he was the driving force in any major games for us over the past 2 years (PSU last year, Indiana in Big 10 tourney, Northwestern last year, CSU game this year, etc.)


Please respond and tell me what he does that makes him more valuable than any regular player on this team.
Nevermind being the 3rd leading scorer on our team, 2nd out of all the guards in rebounding (ahead of 8 other players on the team, including a nearly identical average rebounding to both RSIII and Iverson at 3.4 rebs per game vs 3.8, despite being 6 inches shorter), 3rd on the team in steals, or already ranked one of the best 3-point shooters in Gopher history.

You say in your previous post, "Yes he's a great shooter." Well son, there aren't that many "great" shooters in basketball. The fact that he is "great" already puts him heads and shoulders above 95% of the rest of D1 players, and makes defenses have to cover him that much tighter, opening it up for the rest of our team to penetrate or go 1 on 1 in the post.

The kid must be garbage...I'm sure our team would be much better if we followed your advice over of Tubby's, Rick Pitino's, and Mike Brey's.

Edit: I just realized you are only in high school (as you noted in an earlier post). I didn't mean to pick on a young man...just thought I should show you why your assumptions/opinions are factually inaccurate.

[thebarnsback]

You might want to look at his big ten stats. He's been pretty bad, anyone could get decent stats against bad competition, like our NC schedule. He got all of his stats padded than.

[shikenjanski]

Sounds like some of us aren't accustomed to this role as frontrunner and winner. (I'm sure not.) We've been the whipping boy for so long that our natural reflex is to rationalize and defend ourselves.

After Hoffarber's shot at the Big Ten tournament last year I looked around, scanned the arena and was in a state of shock. I waited for someone to come over the PA system and announce that we had, in fact, lost the game somehow. It took me quite some time to register what I was feeling. It was, simply stated, confused joy that I felt.

Each of these wins melts something inside of me and chips away at that nauseating and persistent question; Why can't WE be the winners sometimes? We've been the also-ran for so many years. Maybe I'll never be comfortable as the guy whose team is THE BEST. But I'd sure like to give it a try.

[ShowinGoldyLove]

You might want to look at his big ten stats. He's been pretty bad, anyone could get decent stats against bad competition, like our NC schedule. He got all of his stats padded than.
Oh, the other 11 guys on our team must have not played in those NC games to "help" their averages then...I forgot Hoff played those teams by himself.

[biggieb45]

He must have stole your girlfriend and then had sex with her right in front of you! You have some serious hatred towards him. He's played his ass off. He got in foul trouble in the Louisville game because he wanted to do too much in front of his family and friends from home. He's been the spark that we need in games and was CLUTCH at the end of the game and in OT. Who would you prefer take in minutes anyways?

Lawrence, keep up the good work! Gopher nation thanks you for beating becky and everything you've done for the program.

[thebarnsback]

Its weaker competition and those games were where he got the higher averages. It's a fact not an opinion.

[biggieb45]

When you take/took tests in school. Did you do better on the easy tests (weaker competition) or the hard tests (better competition)? He and everyone SHOULD do better against bad teams!

Last I checked, becky is a good team (i vomited a little saying that) and he put up a monster game.

[Rouser]

Westbrook is a tough son of a gun He adds a lot to this team and plays hard all game long. His desire to take the big shot is what this team needs. His ability to knock down free throws is what this team needs. Just a solid solid player.

[Gold Rush]

I think the posters on here who have been ripping him are way off base. He is emerging as a team leader as well as scoring threat and we really needed that bigtime!!

[thebarnsback]

When you take/took tests in school. Did you do better on the easy tests (weaker competition) or the hard tests (better competition)? He and everyone SHOULD do better against bad teams!

Last I checked, becky is a good team (i vomited a little saying that) and he put up a monster game.


Are you honestly telling me Hoffarber had a monsterous game? 0 points, 2 boards, and 1 assist. That's a complete joke!

[GSLgopher]

I believe you two are talking about two different people, where as biggie is talking about Westbrook because a lot of people have knocked him, as you are knocking Hoffarber. Hoffarber provides some things to this team that don't show up in the box score (leadership).

[ShowinGoldyLove]

Are you honestly telling me Hoffarber had a monsterous game? 0 points, 2 boards, and 1 assist. That's a complete joke!
I can't believe I'm responding to a high-schooler who obviously hasn't watched many games.

No one is saying that Hoff had a great game. You said that "he shouldn't play over anyone on the team," and "should be sitting next to Kevin Payton." You asked what proof there is that he should be playing. I responded with his significance in every single statistical category compared to everyone else and how he's a huge asset to this team.

There is no longer anything else to argue about. You are simply ignoring the statistical reality of what he adds to this team that others players do not. He continues to receive the 3rd most playing time on the team for his ability to contribute when he is on the floor. I will continue to trust Tubby's judgment over yours, no offense.

However, if you want to give Tubby a 17 year-old's opinion of who should be playing and who should not, I suggest giving him a call.

[biggieb45]

Are you honestly telling me Hoffarber had a monsterous game? 0 points, 2 boards, and 1 assist. That's a complete joke!

Westbrook... If you were talking about Hoff, my bad. My point is still valid. You should do better against bad opponents than better ones. Simple logic.

[MNSnowman]

What is fun to see is LW and Johnson playing so well. Just a short time ago there were so many doubters of these two guys.

Nice to see them mature on the court and prove that they belong.Yes, it is nice to see both mature and improve vastly upon their first year as players.

What's particularly nice about this team is the improvement of the older players and the immediate contributions of the freshmen. I remember when when some people claimed that we could never compete for the better players due to an uneven "playing field" in terms of academic standards, weather, etc. Turns out that having an extremely capable coach will help level that playing field ... who would have known, eh? ;)