Cause for Concern?: Tubby, recruiting efforts, program direction, etc.

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ShowinGoldyLove

ShowinGoldyLove

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JohnnyGopher said:
Won't go into the details of why Joe [Coleman] is down on MN but there are some issues in his mind and Tubby and co. need to fix it as best they can.
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Moonlight said:
I think I know what Johnny is referring to.
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Based on the quotes from some of the most respected and informed posters on Gopherhole, this is VERY concerning to me as a fan.

Couple that with Tubby & Co. striking out on nearly every single person that they've targeted in the Top 150 in the past few years (that isn't from MN), is there some undercurrent with recruits regarding Tubby's coaching style, personality, etc. that is making them pass us over? If so, what the heck is it? (I understand Johnny & Moonlight don't want to bring bad issues to light, but it seems to be a pretty big deal).

I've tried to keep quiet over the past few months regarding our recruiting efforts lately, but I'll have to admit; I'm becoming VERY CONCERNED.

I know FoT will pop on by here with a list about Tubby's glory days getting blue-chip recruiting classes at Kentucky, but is it just me, or do those days seem to be gone?

Tubby is an old school coach/recruiter; seemingly a disciplinarian (guys making a mistake get pulled nearly immediately), somewhat lacking in offensive sets (has anyone figured out what's going on out there?), and getting in on 2 and 3 star recruits at the 11th hour. With recruiters like Calipari, Williams, Coach K, and upstarts like Pastner changing how recruiting works (24/7 job, not 5-6 months out of the year), programs need to be cutting edge with their recruiting efforts.

With the exception of the 2 MN recruits (Williams & White), have we even had a sniff of a top-notch recruit in this year or next year's class?

No offense to Maverick, Oto, Eliason, etc., but these guys are not the types of players a Big 10 program needs to compete for Top 4-5 finishes, much less titles. We're paying our coach one of the top salaries in the country for a reason. I'd be fine with our progress at this point; we've come a long ways in 3 years from where we were. However, based on our recent recruiting efforts, I think we're going to be in BIG trouble in the very near future if we don't right this ship fast.

I don't want to be all doom and gloom, because I've been much happier in the past 2-3 years than I was with the Monson years...these are just some things I've been thinking about over the past year or so. Sorry for the long-windedness of this message, but I thought I'd just throw it out there and get your thoughts?
 

One of the issues with Coleman may be "offergate" from this fall. If you remember, there was some confusion over the validity of Coleman's offer and I believe GopherLady finally posted that Tubby called the family to confirm the offer.

I am very concerned with the direction of the program as well, but I try to keep in mind that we've essentially had one poor (on paper) spring recruiting season that was largely due to unforseen scholarship availability.

That said, what is going on for 2011? We are not in on any "Big Time" recruits despite having plenty of playing time to offer in the future. By my count we will probably need to bring in at least 4 players in 2011 and have no commits. We have 3 scholarships open for sure plus possibly Oto's scholarship or Trevor's scholarship or both. We also have the very real possibility of someone transferring due to level of competition, homesickness, or grades. Finally, there's the outside shot that one of the 7 footers will play well enough that they choose the NBA Draft.

Think of what the roster looked like in Fall 2009 (or what it projected to look like in Fall 2010) and compare it to what we have now. We've went from looking like we've acquired enough talent to compete for the Big Ten title to appearing to still be an NCAA bubble team.

I know the focus has been on Tubby's "old school" recruiting approach and his style of play, but how much has rumors of his departure hurt his recruiting?
 

I wonder if the perception of the program hasn't taken a hit from the things that happened last year. It certainly appears that way, especially with the local kids.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
Based on the quotes from some of the most respected and informed posters on Gopherhole, this is VERY concerning to me as a fan.

Couple that with Tubby & Co. striking out on nearly every single person that they've targeted in the Top 150 in the past few years (that isn't from MN), is there some undercurrent with recruits regarding Tubby's coaching style, personality, etc. that is making them pass us over? If so, what the heck is it? (I understand Johnny & Moonlight don't want to bring bad issues to light, but it seems to be a pretty big deal).

I've tried to keep quiet over the past few months regarding our recruiting efforts lately, but I'll have to admit; I'm becoming VERY CONCERNED.

I know FoT will pop on by here with a list about Tubby's glory days getting blue-chip recruiting classes at Kentucky, but is it just me, or do those days seem to be gone?

Tubby is an old school coach/recruiter; seemingly a disciplinarian (guys making a mistake get pulled nearly immediately), somewhat lacking in offensive sets (has anyone figured out what's going on out there?), and getting in on 2 and 3 star recruits at the 11th hour. With recruiters like Calipari, Williams, Coach K, and upstarts like Pastner changing how recruiting works (24/7 job, not 5-6 months out of the year), programs need to be cutting edge when their recruiting efforts.

With the exception of the 2 MN recruits (Williams & White), have we even had a sniff of a top-notch recruit in this year or next year's class?

No offense to Maverick, Oto, Eliason, etc., but these guys are not the types of players a Big 10 program needs to compete for Top 4-5 finishes, much less titles. We're paying our coach one of the top salaries in the country for a reason. I'd be fine with our progress at this point; we've come a long ways in 3 years from where we were. However, based on our recent recruiting efforts, I think we're going to be in BIG trouble in the very near future if we don't right this ship fast.

I don't want to be all doom and gloom, because I've been much happier in the past 2-3 years than I was with the Monson years...these are just some things I've been thinking about over the past year or so. Sorry for the long-windedness of this message, but I thought I'd just throw it out there and get your thoughts?
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My feelings exactly. Recruits begged to play at Kentucky and Georgia is loaded with recruits every year, thats not the case at Minnesota. This staff does not seem to work as hard as other Big Ten staffs and it shows.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
I know FoT will pop on by here with a list about Tubby's glory days getting blue-chip recruiting classes at Kentucky, but is it just me, or do those days seem to be gone?
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I think that has a lot to do with it.

Also, just some food for thought... In the 6 seasons before Tubby coached Kentucky, he had 17, 15, 23, 24, 21, and 24 win seasons and those were in the MVC and SEC. I think many of you guys expect far too much out of Tubby and think that everything he touches will turn into gold. For the record, I do like Tubby and I think he has done a good (not great) job. I am just not joining in the ranks of those who expect a Big Ten title next year and Final Fours for the rest of his career. That's not to say I'm not hoping for it though...
 


Maturi could announce the building the practice facility. That might give the program a boost. Right now, there's a gray cloud hanging over the BB program at the U. It seems like the past several months has been beset with nothing but negative news...Jimmy Williams, Royce, Trevor, player transfers, etc., etc.

Also, Tubby hasn't signed an extension yet. Maturi has yet to make a determination about Trevor. There's a lot of things hanging out there that won't help recruiting. There's too much negativity associated with the program right now.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
Based on the quotes from some of the most respected and informed posters on Gopherhole, this is VERY concerning to me as a fan.

Couple that with Tubby & Co. striking out on nearly every single person that they've targeted in the Top 150 in the past few years (that isn't from MN), is there some undercurrent with recruits regarding Tubby's coaching style, personality, etc. that is making them pass us over? If so, what the heck is it? (I understand Johnny & Moonlight don't want to bring bad issues to light, but it seems to be a pretty big deal).

I've tried to keep quiet over the past few months regarding our recruiting efforts lately, but I'll have to admit; I'm becoming VERY CONCERNED.

I know FoT will pop on by here with a list about Tubby's glory days getting blue-chip recruiting classes at Kentucky, but is it just me, or do those days seem to be gone?

Tubby is an old school coach/recruiter; seemingly a disciplinarian (guys making a mistake get pulled nearly immediately), somewhat lacking in offensive sets (has anyone figured out what's going on out there?), and getting in on 2 and 3 star recruits at the 11th hour. With recruiters like Calipari, Williams, Coach K, and upstarts like Pastner changing how recruiting works (24/7 job, not 5-6 months out of the year), programs need to be cutting edge with their recruiting efforts.

With the exception of the 2 MN recruits (Williams & White), have we even had a sniff of a top-notch recruit in this year or next year's class?

No offense to Maverick, Oto, Eliason, etc., but these guys are not the types of players a Big 10 program needs to compete for Top 4-5 finishes, much less titles. We're paying our coach one of the top salaries in the country for a reason. I'd be fine with our progress at this point; we've come a long ways in 3 years from where we were. However, based on our recent recruiting efforts, I think we're going to be in BIG trouble in the very near future if we don't right this ship fast.

I don't want to be all doom and gloom, because I've been much happier in the past 2-3 years than I was with the Monson years...these are just some things I've been thinking about over the past year or so. Sorry for the long-windedness of this message, but I thought I'd just throw it out there and get your thoughts?
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Tubby had back-2-back Top 20 recruiting classes at Minnesota. 2008 and 2009, maybe you missed it.

Hollins, Eliason, and Walker are solid recruits but the class lacked a star (C Joseph). Add him and it's another Top 20 class.
 

mattw1067 said:
I think that has a lot to do with it.

Also, just some food for thought... In the 6 seasons before Tubby coached Kentucky, he had 17, 15, 23, 24, 21, and 24 win seasons and those were in the MVC and SEC. I think many of you guys expect far too much out of Tubby and think that everything he touches will turn into gold. For the record, I do like Tubby and I think he has done a good (not great) job. I am just not joining in the ranks of those who expect a Big Ten title next year and Final Fours for the rest of his career. That's not to say I'm not hoping for it though...
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His first season at Tulsa, he had 4 scholarship players at Tulsa. He recruited well (for that level) and made back-2-back Sweet 16 there. 2 of his recruits made the NBA. Can you name another Tulsa player who did that?

His two years at Georgia, he signed consecutive Top 20 classes. So he recruited well BEFORE he coached at UK.
 

KyGopherfan said:
Maturi could announce the building the practice facility. That might give the program a boost. Right now, there's a gray cloud hanging over the BB program at the U. It seems like the past several months has been beset with nothing but negative news...Jimmy Williams, Royce, Trevor, player transfers, etc., etc.

Also, Tubby hasn't signed an extension yet. Maturi has yet to make a determination about Trevor. There's a lot of things hanging out there that won't help recruiting. There's too much negativity associated with the program right now.
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Plenty of negativity here among GH-ers. Success doesn't come from a negative atmosphere.
 



Top 150 Recruits

Gophers signed 5 recruits in 2008 class. 2 were JuCo recruits. Neither was Top 150 in HS. The other 3 were Top 150 rated (out of state) recruits.

Gophers signed 4 recruits in 2009 class. 3 were in-state recruits (all 3 were Top 150). The 4th was not Top 150 (Cobbs) but borderline at that level.

Gophers signed 3 recruits in 2010 class. 1 (Walker) is Top 150 recruit from out of state. 2 others (Hollins, Eliason) are borderline Top 150 recruits - Gibbons rates both in his Top 150. The final 2 (Osenieks, Ahanmisi) are not Top 150 recruits.

So (arguably) 3 of 5 in 2008 class. 3 of 4 in 2009. And 3 of 5 in 2010. In terms of Top 150 recruits, that is.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Gophers signed...
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Amazing that you wrote that, and come to a totally different conclusion. "Borderline," "Gibbons rates them," etc; you realize then that they are NOT Top 150?

Based on your stats, 4 out of 11 players (excluding 3 MN kids, 2 of which are gone/not able to play) were bona fide Top 150 recruits, with only 1 of the last 5 signees being a Top 150 player.

In addition, each year has gotten progressively worse in terms of recruits, with literally nothing doing for the 2011 nor 2012 class; zip, nada, zilch. And every player we've targeted in those classes so far has signed elsewhere. THAT is why I'm concerned; I know we got Joseph, Sampson, etc. in his first year, but it's been a bad trend downwards since then.

As a Gopher fan, it's very concerning.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
Amazing that you wrote that, and come to a totally different conclusion. "Borderline," "Gibbons rates them," etc; you realize then that they are NOT Top 150?

Based on your stats, 4 out of 11 players (excluding 3 MN kids, 2 of which are gone/not able to play) were bona fide Top 150 recruits, with only 1 of the last 5 signees being a Top 150 player.

In addition, each year has gotten progressively worse in terms of recruits, with literally nothing doing for the 2011 nor 2012 class; zip, nada, zilch. And every player we've targeted in those classes so far has signed elsewhere. THAT is why I'm concerned; I know we got Joseph, Sampson, etc. in his first year, but it's been a bad trend downwards since then.

As a Gopher fan, it's very concerning.
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2008 - signed two 4 Star and one 3 Star plus two Top 25 rated JuCo recruits.

2009 - signed one (each) 5 Star, 4 Star, 3 Star, 2 Star recruit. The 3 Star is Top 25 rated JuCo.

Arguably, the 2009 class was > than 2008 so that's not "progressively worse" as you put it.

2010 - signed three 3 Star and two lesser rated recruits.

5 Star = Top 25.
4 Star = Top 75 to 100.
3 Star = Top 150.

2011 - Gophers still have several good options and G and F positions. One top target has gone elsewhere.

2012 - Gophers are listed (among Top 5 choices) by several highly regarded players in this class.

Your negativity DOES NOT HELP at all.
 

Fine line

Count me as one who is not concerned. First and foremost, the program is light years ahead of where it was when Monson left. The arrival of Tubby has meant a significant improvement, and along with it, some unrealistic expectations of some.

Take a look at the domino effect of what has happened in the last 8-10 months.

Trevor and Royce don't play a single minute for the Rodents this last year. Al Nolen misses the last half of the season. Those events easily caused the Gophers to finish 3-4 spots lower in the conference than where they finished.

More importantly, the loss of those guys resulted in a 1st round NCAA exit as opposed to potentially a Sweet 16 visit. THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

There's such a fine line between winning and losing and along with it, winning and losing recruits. There's a lot going on behind the scenes in the competition for some of these kids; sounds like Jesperson was a major uphill battle to begin with.

All that being said, whether or not Trevor plays the next 2 years for the Gophers is ENORMOUS, in my opinion. He fills a major need and I would imagine it would be a significant morale boost for the team as well. It would also relieve a good portion of the possible outside perception that there is any turmoil in the program.

If he can't play, that means essentially losing about 75% of that year's recruiting class (weighing Trevor and Royce more than the others in their incoming class). That's a big deal.
 




Our staff does seem to be doing a better job of getting out there and identifying talent early. This year we've been hot on the trail on a number of guys, none of which are 5-stars, but the guys we have been in on have quite a few good offers (this matters more to me). Also, it looks like we are pretty well setup with the 2012 class with 7 offers out to kids and 5 of them are at 4-star status now...

Otherwise, with the current kids in the program, I don't really sense the negativity. Then again, I have pretty much zero insider sources. But, while our last class lacked overall star power, we did sign some high-character type kids which should help. Furthermore, even if Trevor doesn't play here, we will still have one of the best (maybe the best) front-court in the Big Ten conference. And you all should know that Tubby's offense flows through the post, and with the current stable of big men, we should be very good in that department.

We could still be very good next year by pounding the ball inside, rebounding, and playing tough defense. We just won't have the depth at guard we've had in the past with Tubby.
 

I am concerned. Tubby got a lot of national hype when he came to Minnesota and he parlayed that hype into a good class. The MN kids were next and Tubby reeled them in. However, that class has not panned out yet. My bigger concern is coaching and coaching style. Paying a coach top 5 money and finishing in the middle of the pack in the Big Ten is not getting it done. Plain and simple. Results matter. I am patient, but if Mbwake doesn't play this year, look for another .500 season for the Gophers. At what point do we expect more from Tubby?
 

Yes, I was referring to Offergate

I agree w/Ogee. Mostly. I hope we have Trevor, yet he is a tie to a disappointing year in terms of outcome for recruitment.

No matter the extenuating circumstances, last year was a failure as far as the success of our recruits is concerned. It was a drag on the whole season, killing any momentum Tubby might have been building. Do I blame Tubby? No. Do I blame Maturi? No. Lacking a crystal ball is the flaw. Yes, it could have been predicted that each could be a problem given the past, yet I don't see how Tubby could have passed on either.
Despite White's ability, I am glad to have him officially gone. No more attention and life being sucked out of the program into the ego of a non-player.
 

GopherD said:
Our staff does seem to be doing a better job of getting out there and identifying talent early. This year we've been hot on the trail on a number of guys, none of which are 5-stars, but the guys we have been in on have quite a few good offers (this matters more to me). Also, it looks like we are pretty well setup with the 2012 class with 7 offers out to kids and 5 of them are at 4-star status now...

Otherwise, with the current kids in the program, I don't really sense the negativity. Then again, I have pretty much zero insider sources. But, while our last class lacked overall star power, we did sign some high-character type kids which should help. Furthermore, even if Trevor doesn't play here, we will still have one of the best (maybe the best) front-court in the Big Ten conference. And you all should know that Tubby's offense flows through the post, and with the current stable of big men, we should be very good in that department.

We could still be very good next year by pounding the ball inside, rebounding, and playing tough defense. We just won't have the depth at guard we've had in the past with Tubby.
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Nice post Gopher D. With Sampson, Iverson and hopefully Mbakwe we have the best front-court in the big ten. I think Devoe and Williams are due for break out years, Hoff and Nolan bring experience. Plus Hollins should contribute as well.

Art is getting to everyone. Go Gophers.
 


Friend Of Tubby said:
Tubby had back-2-back Top 20 recruiting classes at Minnesota. 2008 and 2009, maybe you missed it.

Hollins, Eliason, and Walker are solid recruits but the class lacked a star (C Joseph). Add him and it's another Top 20 class.
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FOT - I just can't give him much credit for the 2009 class. It's bad luck that White and Mbakwe couldn't play and that Cobbs didn't pan out but you have to recruit players that end up playing for you to get credit for them.
 

Moonlight said:
I agree w/Ogee. Mostly. I hope we have Trevor, yet he is a tie to a disappointing year in terms of outcome for recruitment.

.....Despite White's ability, I am glad to have him officially gone. No more attention and life being sucked out of the program into the ego of a non-player.
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I wish that he was gone but there was a post yesterday in another thread that RW is actively recruiting MN kids to ISU and that he is promoting Joe Coleman to join him there.

I've had people like RW in my life b4. The best way that I know of to deal with their disruptions, is to accept that they are what they are and give them time because in time they will destroy themselves.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Count me as one who is not concerned. First and foremost, the program is light years ahead of where it was when Monson left. The arrival of Tubby has meant a significant improvement, and along with it, some unrealistic expectations of some.

Take a look at the domino effect of what has happened in the last 8-10 months.

Trevor and Royce don't play a single minute for the Rodents this last year. Al Nolen misses the last half of the season. Those events easily caused the Gophers to finish 3-4 spots lower in the conference than where they finished.

More importantly, the loss of those guys resulted in a 1st round NCAA exit as opposed to potentially a Sweet 16 visit. THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

There's such a fine line between winning and losing and along with it, winning and losing recruits. There's a lot going on behind the scenes in the competition for some of these kids; sounds like Jesperson was a major uphill battle to begin with.

All that being said, whether or not Trevor plays the next 2 years for the Gophers is ENORMOUS, in my opinion. He fills a major need and I would imagine it would be a significant morale boost for the team as well. It would also relieve a good portion of the possible outside perception that there is any turmoil in the program.

If he can't play, that means essentially losing about 75% of that year's recruiting class (weighing Trevor and Royce more than the others in their incoming class). That's a big deal.
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I could not agree more.
 

One of my principal concerns...

...is the reputation Tubby seems to be acquiring for failing to prepare talented kids for the NBA.

I think it was Chad Ford of ESPN who took Tubby to task last year for mishandling Rodney Williams. At one point early in the season Ford had Williams as a top-ten draft prospect. Even now, with comparatively little burn time, Ford has Williams ranked as the 18th best prospect in next summer's draft, should Williams declare early.

Tubby's old-school, tightly-controlled, make-a-mistake-and-you-sit, my-way-or-the-bench offensive system doesn't play too well with the best athletes. Why do we supopose Cory Joseph chose Texas? Because he thought Rick Barnes could prepare him for the NBA better than Tubby Smith can, plain and simple.

Count me among the concerned.
 

uagain said:
...is the reputation Tubby seems to be acquiring for failing to prepare talented kids for the NBA.

I think it was Chad Ford of ESPN who took Tubby to task last year for mishandling Rodney Williams. At one point early in the season Ford had Williams as a top-ten draft prospect. Even now, with comparatively little burn time, Ford has Williams ranked as the 18th best prospect in next summer's draft, should Williams declare early.

Tubby's old-school, tightly-controlled, make-a-mistake-and-you-sit, my-way-or-the-bench offensive system doesn't play too well with the best athletes. Why do we supopose Cory Joseph chose Texas? Because he thought Rick Barnes could prepare him for the NBA better than Tubby Smith can, plain and simple.

Count me among the concerned.
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And you know this how....?
 

minngg said:
I am concerned. Tubby got a lot of national hype when he came to Minnesota and he parlayed that hype into a good class. The MN kids were next and Tubby reeled them in. However, that class has not panned out yet. My bigger concern is coaching and coaching style. Paying a coach top 5 money and finishing in the middle of the pack in the Big Ten is not getting it done. Plain and simple. Results matter. I am patient, but if Mbwake doesn't play this year, look for another .500 season for the Gophers. At what point do we expect more from Tubby?
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I guess I don't understand your logic. If Trevor doesn't play, expect another .500 season... and somehow Trevor not playing is Tubby's fault, or the lack of quality coaching?

I will certainly make this concession. Had Royce, Trevor, and Nolen played the entire season for the Rodents and they still finished where they did this year with a first round departure, then YES, I think Tubby should be held accountable, he'd be doing a substandard job coaching and recruiting, and I would be nervous and concerned about the direction of the program. Absolutely.

That's not how it panned out though. Royce, Trevor, and to an extent even Al, were almost completely out of control of the coaching staff.

Real world: I'm a Project Manager and I win a major project by proposing a staff of 6-8 of my best people. Shortly before the project breaks ground, 3 of my best employees either leave the company for higher paying jobs or a relocation to a more attractive locale, you're saying it's entirely on the Project Manager if the project doesn't go off as smoothly as it could have? Makes no sense.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I guess I don't understand your logic. If Trevor doesn't play, expect another .500 season... and somehow Trevor not playing is Tubby's fault, or the lack of quality coaching?

I will certainly make this concession. Had Royce, Trevor, and Nolen played the entire season for the Rodents and they still finished where they did this year with a first round departure, then YES, I think Tubby should be held accountable, he'd be doing a substandard job coaching and recruiting, and I would be nervous and concerned about the direction of the program. Absolutely.

That's not how it panned out though. Royce, Trevor, and to an extent even Al, were almost completely out of control of the coaching staff.

Real world: I'm a Project Manager and I win a major project by proposing a staff of 6-8 of my best people. Shortly before the project breaks ground, 3 of my best employees either leave the company for higher paying jobs or a relocation to a more attractive locale, you're saying it's entirely on the Project Manager if the project doesn't go off as smoothly as it could have? Makes no sense.
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Ogee- I mostly agree with you. I think most of the concern that is being seen with Tubby is centered on recruiting. He does some unusual stuff as far as game coaching, but talent for talent he wins more than his share so you shrug it off and say- hey it works. But the recruiting appears to be losing some momentum since the initial class. Last year he signed three top local guys but all were high risk for one reason or another and two now can't play. At the end of the day it isn't where your class ranks when you recruit them - it's what they put out when you put them on court if they ever appear there. Now the fact that we are seeming to have so much trouble getting this next class off the ground is certainly an issue. It's not time to panic but the signs haven't been great lately.
 

Not sure what "literally nothing doing for the 2011 nor 2012 class" means, but I think you're getting at something. We're so screwed for the 2012 class. So many teams already have commits for that year...

ShowinGoldyLove said:
Amazing that you wrote that, and come to a totally different conclusion. "Borderline," "Gibbons rates them," etc; you realize then that they are NOT Top 150?

Based on your stats, 4 out of 11 players (excluding 3 MN kids, 2 of which are gone/not able to play) were bona fide Top 150 recruits, with only 1 of the last 5 signees being a Top 150 player.

In addition, each year has gotten progressively worse in terms of recruits, with literally nothing doing for the 2011 nor 2012 class; zip, nada, zilch. And every player we've targeted in those classes so far has signed elsewhere. THAT is why I'm concerned; I know we got Joseph, Sampson, etc. in his first year, but it's been a bad trend downwards since then.

As a Gopher fan, it's very concerning.
Click to expand...
 

Barnes "prepares" players better for the NBA because he brings in way more talented players. He brings in way more talented players because he coaches at Texas. If Tubby were coaching at Texas he'd be sending players to the NBA at an extremely high rate. It's pretty simple.

uagain said:
...is the reputation Tubby seems to be acquiring for failing to prepare talented kids for the NBA.

I think it was Chad Ford of ESPN who took Tubby to task last year for mishandling Rodney Williams. At one point early in the season Ford had Williams as a top-ten draft prospect. Even now, with comparatively little burn time, Ford has Williams ranked as the 18th best prospect in next summer's draft, should Williams declare early.

Tubby's old-school, tightly-controlled, make-a-mistake-and-you-sit, my-way-or-the-bench offensive system doesn't play too well with the best athletes. Why do we supopose Cory Joseph chose Texas? Because he thought Rick Barnes could prepare him for the NBA better than Tubby Smith can, plain and simple.

Count me among the concerned.
Click to expand...
 

uagain said:
...is the reputation Tubby seems to be acquiring for failing to prepare talented kids for the NBA.

I think it was Chad Ford of ESPN who took Tubby to task last year for mishandling Rodney Williams. At one point early in the season Ford had Williams as a top-ten draft prospect. Even now, with comparatively little burn time, Ford has Williams ranked as the 18th best prospect in next summer's draft, should Williams declare early.

Tubby's old-school, tightly-controlled, make-a-mistake-and-you-sit, my-way-or-the-bench offensive system doesn't play too well with the best athletes. Why do we supopose Cory Joseph chose Texas? Because he thought Rick Barnes could prepare him for the NBA better than Tubby Smith can, plain and simple.

Count me among the concerned.
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I agree. John Wooden played seven guys in his regular rotations. I think he did pretty decent. I feel like Tubby simply doesn't want to change from his 10-11 man rotation.
 

underground629 said:
Barnes "prepares" players better for the NBA because he brings in way more talented players. He brings in way more talented players because he coaches at Texas. If Tubby were coaching at Texas he'd be sending players to the NBA at an extremely high rate. It's pretty simple.
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Tubby had 3 players at Tulsa drafted by NBA. He had 2 players at Georgia drafted. He had 16 players at UK drafted and/or make the NBA. That's 21. He's coached 19 years.

What are Barnes' numbers? Clemson, Providence, Texas.
 

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