Williams wanted to settle for 2.5 Million

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Per Shooter:

A little birdie says representatives of Jimmy Williams, who contends he was offered a $200,000 a year Gophers men's basketball assistant coach job by Tubby Smith and is suing the Minnesota coach, offered to settle the case before trial for $2.5 million.
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No wonder Minnesota didn't settle this before it went to trial.

Wow.
 

LOL

Blizzard said:
Per Shooter:



No wonder Minnesota didn't settle this before it went to trial.

Wow.
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Double WOW!

I thought it was dumb to resign Job A before you had signed papers to take Job B.

If the Shooter is correct, the level of stupid seems to know no bounds.

Jimmie must have fallen on his head somewhere along the way.

I wish him well.
 

I think this is probably misleading reporting. I would bet that $2.5 mm was an "opening offer." No one expects to get anything near their opening offer (in a settlement; but if forced to roll the dice with a jury verdict, and you win, that's another story). Sometimes it's 5x what you really want and 10x the eventual settlement. You often want to start negotiations in a lawsuit as high as possible because the defendant will start with an equally ridiculous low offer, often nominal offer.

E.g., Williams demands $2.5 mm, the U counters with $10,000, and what should have happened is they go back and forth over weeks and settle at around $300,000 (a year and a half salary).

The problem is that if you don't negotiate right away, attorneys fees become so high that they screw up the ability to settle reasonably.
 

Didn’t see this before I posted in the other thread. Unless Shooter is making this up, I take it as a sign the University is very concerned about the way the case is going and is trying to do damage control. No benefit to Williams’ team to leak this information that I can see. But for the U, it creates the impression that they were forced to try the case and insulates them from an adverse result. Without this information, I’d guess the general public would see an award of $900,000 to Jimmy as a huge victory for him and a rebuke to the University and Tubby. Now the same verdict is a “win” for the U since it was much better result than could have been achieved by settling the case out of court.

From what I know about the case, Wandering Gopher is probably correct that this was not Jimmy’s “drop dead” settlement number, but it may well have doomed the negotiations. Even if everything Jimmy says is accepted by the jurors, they still have to find damages and it’s hard to see how they could be nearly that high. This is the type of information that judges (and most attorneys) hate to see become public because the negotiation process is supposed to be confidential and jurors may be tainted with the information.
 

I sense he may be a disgruntled former employee trying to get back at Minnesota for what may have happened in the 1970's.
 


Friend Of Tubby said:
I sense he may be a disgruntled former employee trying to get back at Minnesota for what may have happened in the 1970's.
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I don't get that sense at all. He wanted to come here and coach again.

The man lost his job, lost his health insurance, isn't doing what he loves, and might never be able to coach in D-1 bb again after this fiasco. You can argue about whose fault it is that he resigned at OSU, but this case obviously isn't about "revenge" for the past.
 

WanderingGopher said:
I don't get that sense at all. He wanted to come here and coach again.

The man lost his job, lost his health insurance, isn't doing what he loves, and might never be able to coach in D-1 bb again after this fiasco. You can argue about whose fault it is that he resigned at OSU, but this case obviously isn't about "revenge" for the past.
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Neither Tubby nor Williams comes off looking good. Tubby's evasive hemming and hawing during the deposition leads one to a reasonable conclusion that a job was verbally offered and accepted. Williams was just about the biggest fool in the world for resigning from his job and selling his house without a signed deal.

Three years into the mission and I would guess that the Maturis are not first on the list for Sunday dinner at the Smith home.
 

WanderingGopher said:
I don't get that sense at all. He wanted to come here and coach again.

The man lost his job, lost his health insurance, isn't doing what he loves, and might never be able to coach in D-1 bb again after this fiasco. You can argue about whose fault it is that he resigned at OSU, but this case obviously isn't about "revenge" for the past.
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No, actually he QUIT his job - he didn't LOSE it. His fault entirely.

No reason why he couldn't get another job in 2007-08 with his recruiting prowess.

Or is there?
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
No, actually he QUIT his job - he didn't LOSE it. His fault entirely.

No reason why he couldn't get another job in 2007-08 with his recruiting prowess.

Or is there?
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If you are making those kinds of insinuations, why did Tubby want him?
 




Friend Of Tubby said:
No, actually he QUIT his job - he didn't LOSE it. His fault entirely.

No reason why he couldn't get another job in 2007-08 with his recruiting prowess.

Or is there?
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That seems pretty harsh, and I think unreasonable. A lot of evidence in this case has been publicized and I think it's pretty clear there's plenty of blame to go around.

As for "getting another job," it seems obvious that this ordeal (and the public nature of it from the beginning, dredging up old recruiting violations) hurt his employability. Could he have gotten an equal job? Did he/should he have pursued a lesser job? I would imagine the jury will hear evidence from both sides.

I'll tell you one thing, it seems highly implausible that this guy would roll the dice with a lawsuit, where he may get nothing, rather than taking another job which you suggest was readily available.
 


Friend Of Tubby said:
No, actually he QUIT his job - he didn't LOSE it. His fault entirely.

No reason why he couldn't get another job in 2007-08 with his recruiting prowess.

Or is there?
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I find it disturbing that you are this irrational and clouded in every single stance you take . . . all because you stayed at the same Holiday Inn Express that Tubby stayed in.

This is a tough one for you. Because bashing Williams contradicts the fact that Tubby wanted to hire him. Catch 22, creepy.
 



Facts34 said:
I find it disturbing that you are this irrational and clouded in every single stance you take . . . all because you stayed at the same Holiday Inn Express that Tubby stayed in.

This is a tough one for you. Because bashing Williams contradicts the fact that Tubby wanted to hire him. Catch 22, creepy.
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It makes no sense that Williams (perceived as a good recruiter) couldn't land another job since 2007.

Please offer an explanation from your perspective.
 


WanderingGopher said:
That seems pretty harsh, and I think unreasonable. A lot of evidence in this case has been publicized and I think it's pretty clear there's plenty of blame to go around.

As for "getting another job," it seems obvious that this ordeal (and the public nature of it from the beginning, dredging up old recruiting violations) hurt his employability. Could he have gotten an equal job? Did he/should he have pursued a lesser job? I would imagine the jury will hear evidence from both sides.

I'll tell you one thing, it seems highly implausible that this guy would roll the dice with a lawsuit, where he may get nothing, rather than taking another job which you suggest was readily available.
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Hurt his employability? I highly doubt that. 3 years later?

Eddie Sutton got fired by UK in 1989 for cheating (or letting it happen). He was coaching again in 2 years.

One example of many. Another is Bob Huggins - forced out at UC in 2005. Hired by K-St in 2006. Hired away by WVU in 2007. Huggins had among THE WORST reputations in coaching then.
 

Blizzard said:
Per Shooter:



No wonder Minnesota didn't settle this before it went to trial.

Wow.
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if he was offered a 200,000 dollar a year job he would have made a quarter of that by now and if there are damages, such as braking a verbal contract as well as attorney's fees, 2.5 million does not seem out of this world as a demand seeing as there would have been a more reasonable counter from the U.

something tells me that the U is going to end up wishing they had taken the 2.5 mill.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
I sense he may be a disgruntled former employee trying to get back at Minnesota for what may have happened in the 1970's.
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yeah, so disgruntled that he got tubby smith to offer him a job in order to carry out his master plan of getting back at his former employee.:rolleyes:
 


bigtenchamps1899 said:
if he was offered a 200,000 dollar a year job he would have made a quarter of that by now and if there are damages, such as braking a verbal contract as well as attorney's fees, 2.5 million does not seem out of this world as a demand seeing as there would have been a more reasonable counter from the U.

something tells me that the U is going to end up wishing they had taken the 2.5 mill.
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The U is not the target of the lawsuit as I understand it.

The coach (Tubby) is the target and would be liable IF...
 

Would be surprised if the U does not indemnify Tubby for matters such as this.. we'll see.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
The U is not the target of the lawsuit as I understand it.

The coach (Tubby) is the target and would be liable IF...
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OK, ok. Look, I usually agree with your posts, but I think you are in over your head on this one.

As for the "target" of the lawsuit, he originally named the U, Tubby, Maturi, and I believe other entities within the U (Regents, I think...). The case is "against Tubby" now simply because those are the claims that survived earlier motions in the case. I highly doubt that, if Williams had his choice, the focus of the case would be himself vs Tubby. He's simply pursuing the only option left to him.

This has become an unfortunate stare-down in which no one really "wins." I think the U probably was short sighted in the earlier settlement discussions, maybe because it had just agreed to shell out a huge salary (by our cheap standards) for an elite coach. An extra few hundred thou to solve this mess would have been money well spent at that time.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
It makes no sense that Williams (perceived as a good recruiter) couldn't land another job since 2007.

Please offer an explanation from your perspective.
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I agree that it SEEMS reasonable to assume he would have been able to find another job.

But who knows? Maybe he could have, maybe he couldn't have. How old is Williams? He has to be in his early- to mid-60s. Maybe he's perceived as too old by the current crop of DI head coaches. Maybe he tried and failed. Maybe the only jobs he could have gotten were for less money.

There are lots of coaches that seem capable, even excellent, that are not in positions commensurate with their qualifications, abilities, value. Why? Who the hell knows?
 

Williams Applied for a Number of Jobs

Friend Of Tubby said:
My belief is that he hasn't TRIED to land another job.
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Not true. In an interview, he went through a list of jobs he had applied for. The reason he did not get those jobs had to do with the Minnesota situation. His Gopher basketball history was resurrected by Minnesota/Maturi after it had been buried and gone for a number of years. The ADs and coaches at the hiring schools did not want to get into any kind of contraversy with that stuff coming up again and hurting THEIR program reputation in the press. There is no doubt that the Tubby/Maturi thing hurt Williams big time when it came to getting another job.
 

IMHO

First, Williams is a fool for having resigned Job A before he had signed papers on Job B.

Second, he gives all the signs now of looking for one last free meal. Why not just spill hot McDonalds coffee on your lap and sue them?

I have zero sympathy for J. Williams.

:p
 

WanderingGopher said:
OK, ok. Look, I usually agree with your posts, but I think you are in over your head on this one.

As for the "target" of the lawsuit, he originally named the U, Tubby, Maturi, and I believe other entities within the U (Regents, I think...). The case is "against Tubby" now simply because those are the claims that survived earlier motions in the case. I highly doubt that, if Williams had his choice, the focus of the case would be himself vs Tubby. He's simply pursuing the only option left to him.

This has become an unfortunate stare-down in which no one really "wins." I think the U probably was short sighted in the earlier settlement discussions, maybe because it had just agreed to shell out a huge salary (by our cheap standards) for an elite coach. An extra few hundred thou to solve this mess would have been money well spent at that time.
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I didn't mean he PERSONALLY targeted Tubby.

I meant the lawsuit as it stands now targets him.
 

Facts34 said:
I agree that it SEEMS reasonable to assume he would have been able to find another job.

But who knows? Maybe he could have, maybe he couldn't have. How old is Williams? He has to be in his early- to mid-60s. Maybe he's perceived as too old by the current crop of DI head coaches. Maybe he tried and failed. Maybe the only jobs he could have gotten were for less money.

There are lots of coaches that seem capable, even excellent, that are not in positions commensurate with their qualifications, abilities, value. Why? Who the hell knows?
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If he was a hot commodity as recruiting assistant in 2007, he surely would have been in 2008 or 2009.
 

Honyocker said:
Not true. In an interview, he went through a list of jobs he had applied for. The reason he did not get those jobs had to do with the Minnesota situation. His Gopher basketball history was resurrected by Minnesota/Maturi after it had been buried and gone for a number of years. The ADs and coaches at the hiring schools did not want to get into any kind of contraversy with that stuff coming up again and hurting THEIR program reputation in the press. There is no doubt that the Tubby/Maturi thing hurt Williams big time when it came to getting another job.
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Any due diligence effort using NCAA Major Infractions Database would uncover the recruiting violations.

If Sutton can get a job 2 years after the Kentucky debacle in 1989 (one example only), then Jimmy Williams could get another job, too.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Any due diligence effort using NCAA Major Infractions Database would uncover the recruiting violations.

If Sutton can get a job 2 years after the Kentucky debacle in 1989 (one example only), then Jimmy Williams could get another job, too.
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Keep believing what you want even though there is proof to the contrary as Honyocker said that he has tried to get other jobs and been unsuccessful. You want to throw out the Eddie Sutton example, well first off that was over 20 years ago before the internet age and before any and every person could find detailed info on any and every infraction. Also, Eddie Sutton was a successful and well established head coach who ended up back at his alma mater after the Kentucky debacle. Don't you think an A.D. is going to be more willing to go out on a limb for big time head coach versus an assistant. Add in the fact that the said coach is returning to his alma mater where he was and is highly revered and the program is willing to overlook some things that other programs may not.
 

Sutton was also probably 10 years younger at the time.

But the real point is that one anecdotal example doesn't make the case, no matter how ofter it's trotted out by I Want To Cuddle With Tubby.
 

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