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thewerminator

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I don't know any insider stuff but the longer it takes Cory the better for the U......like i said i'm not saying anything but a gut feeling, he's not around the big lights this week, its family so it can't be anything but good for us. I am impressed with his choice to think long and hard its a big decision and i will be a fan of his one way or the other.
 

On the downside: He's not around the bright lights, but he is around his coach, who has already publicly stated that he thinks either Texas or Villanova are the best "fits" for Cory. That guy is definitely not a bright light. :)
 

Minnie Soda said:
On the downside: He's not around the bright lights, but he is around his coach, who has already publicly stated that he thinks either Texas or Villanova are the best "fits" for Cory. That guy is definitely not a bright light. :)
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You really have to wonder why his coach would be pushing so hard in one or two directions only. It's not like any of his 5 choices wouldn't be legit. With no reason to seem to have a vested interest in where Corey ends up (unless it were UNLV, which he's not endorsing), why so verbal? So, you have to wonder what kind of kickbacks his coach might be getting from (a) Texas or (b) Villanova. Eh?
 

cncmin said:
You really have to wonder why his coach would be pushing so hard in one or two directions only. It's not like any of his 5 choices wouldn't be legit. With no reason to seem to have a vested interest in where Corey ends up (unless it were UNLV, which he's not endorsing), why so verbal? So, you have to wonder what kind of kickbacks his coach might be getting from (a) Texas or (b) Villanova. Eh?
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That's what I've kind of hinted at. I'm looking at Texas and wondering if anything's up. I'm not saying Rick Barnes is running a dirty program, but it does make you wonder when at least two kids (Avery and Tristan) have already gone from Findlay Prep to Texas, and now the coach seems to be trying to push Cory there, as well. Shouldn't that raise some eyebrows? You tell me.
 

Coach Peck seems like a good coach as he has developed his players well. If Findlay Prep closes or he moves on - I wonder if he will move to Texas as part of Barnes' staff?

Peck pushing UNLV also seemed out of place (he was on staff there).

I wonder if this is related to Tubby's refusal to play the game - no payments to other coaches via the elite camps? I wonder which elite camps Peck works at?
 



Gopher in Texas said:
Coach Peck seems like a good coach as he has developed his players well. If Findlay Prep closes or he moves on - I wonder if he will move to Texas as part of Barnes' staff?

Peck pushing UNLV also seemed out of place (he was on staff there).

I wonder if this is related to Tubby's refusal to play the game - no payments to other coaches via the elite camps? I wonder which elite camps Peck works at?
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Great point, it does make you wonder... "the game within the game"

In an article about Al Skinner, one of the knocks on his recruiting was that he wouldn't play ball with the AAU guys.
 

Whatever happens, good luck Cory. I hope you come here, but if you don't I am sure you will have a great career. And we still have your brother. If you don't come here, I will be a fan as long as you stay out of the B10! I watched you on ESPN a week or so ago and I thought you were amazing. I don't mean to seem indifferent but we will be fine and so will Cory. Tubby won't hang his career here on one player.
 

and no one considers the coach has no hidden agenda and wants the kid to go to a better program than Minnesota which Texas and Villanova both are.
 



scools12 said:
and no one considers the coach has no hidden agenda and wants the kid to go to a better program than Minnesota which Texas and Villanova both are.
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Are you a Minnesota fan?! Why do we keep shooting our program down? Why do people keep stating, on HERE of all places, that Texas and Villanova are better than Minnesota?! Sure, five years ago, Texas and Villanova were much, much better than Minnesota. But, in the here and now, Minnesota is right up there with those programs, and gaining strength. Tubby Smith gave the Minnesota program instant credibility, and there isn't a recruit in the country who doesn't know that name. He's building this program, and working hard to take it to an unprecedented level. So, please, unless you're a Wisconsin troll just trying to make things difficult, stop publicly stating that Minnesota is a second-class program!!
 

I understand that the Gophers must wait it out for a talent like Joseph, but with that comes great risk. I wouldn't consider it good in any way that Cory's announcement is dragging out. The Gophers will be left standing at the altar searching for scraps if Cory goes elsewhere. And it becomes more painful if Al doesn't get eligible and Justin follows through on transferring.
 

Minnie Soda said:
Are you a Minnesota fan?! Why do we keep shooting our program down? Why do people keep stating, on HERE of all places, that Texas and Villanova are better than Minnesota?! Sure, five years ago, Texas and Villanova were much, much better than Minnesota. But, in the here and now, Minnesota is right up there with those programs, and gaining strength. Tubby Smith gave the Minnesota program instant credibility, and there isn't a recruit in the country who doesn't know that name. He's building this program, and working hard to take it to an unprecedented level. So, please, unless you're a Wisconsin troll just trying to make things difficult, stop publicly stating that Minnesota is a second-class program!!
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so let me get this straight. I can't state publicly what I think on a public message board because you don't like it and it doesn't match your point of view? Minnie Soda you are pretty narrow minded if you think I am not a fan because our views don't match and you just want to hear all things are great about the program.

I am fan that can be objective of what is true and what isn't. The fact is Texas and Nova are better programs. If you don't want to believe that it is your opinion but you really need to take the rose-colored glasses off and face reality.
 

Minnie,
Your support for the program is commendable but take off the maroon glasses for a moment to understand the facts. I AM a supporter of all MN sports programs and would love nothing more to see Tubby continue to turn our program around to become a prominent national program. The fact is that we are NOT there yet. To make the NCAA tourney is only a slight step more prestigeous than getting your name in the phone book. Big time coaches lose their jobs if they don't make the tourney on a very regular basis (and some even lose their jobs after making the tourney and not winning games in the tourney - Clemson), so let's not annoint Tubby's brief tenure as brilliance due to the fact that we have made an NCAA appearance in 2 of his 3 years with a record of 0-2 (add in the first round exit in the NIT in the year that we did not make the NCAA tourney). Villanova and Texas are better basketball programs right now and noone could fault any recruit from selecting those schools. UNLV is another matter. It is one thing to support the local university, it is another to truely believe that we are regarded as a prominent national basketball program right now and comparable to Villanova and Texas. We have a chance to get there with a few key additions and improvement by those still in the program, but we are not real close right now.
 



scools12 said:
so let me get this straight. I can't state publicly what I think on a public message board because you don't like it and it doesn't match your point of view? Minnie Soda you are pretty narrow minded if you think I am not a fan because our views don't match and you just want to hear all things are great about the program.

I am fan that can be objective of what is true and what isn't. The fact is Texas and Nova are better programs. If you don't want to believe that it is your opinion but you really need to take the rose-colored glasses off and face reality.
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If Texas and Villanova are better programs, then how the heck is Minnesota supposed to be able to make ground when its own fans are basically telling a kid like Cory that he should go there instead of coming to play for the Gophers? Sure the vast majority of people on here are very supportive of the U of M and its mission, and I'm sure you're among those people. I respect the fact that you don't think Minnesota measures up with Texas and Villanova. That's your right, and I'm sure you have sound reasons for the way you feel. But, honestly, if you think that Cory Joseph could help take Minnesota to the next level -- and I think that's the consensus of most on this board -- then it's probably best for you to just keep those feelings to yourself.

I have no idea whether Cory, or other recruits, have ever looked at this site. But we're kidding ourselves if we don't think that 18-year old kids are online, and there's a decent chance that they might read what's written here. Just look at the situation with Vander Blue at Wisconsin, if you have any doubts about that.

So, I'm not saying that we can't complain when things are bad. If the Gophers were coming off a 10-win season, I'd be moaning, too. But are they bad right now? I think Minnesota's program has a very bright future ahead of it. Convincing kids like Cory to come here is paramount to that taking place. So all I'm saying is that we don't need to give recruits reasons to go elsewhere.
 

scools12 said:
I am fan that can be objective of what is true and what isn't. The fact is Texas and Nova are better programs. If you don't want to believe that it is your opinion but you really need to take the rose-colored glasses off and face reality.
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If you would have said a program like Duke, UNC, Kansas, Michigan State, etc. then your statement is a no brainer. There is no doubt those programs are much better than Minnesota right now. However programs like Texas and Villanova are not what I would consider leaps and bounds ahead. Texas has recently recruited well but it rarely shows up on the court at the end of the year. They usually go one or two and out in the tournament (last two years Texas is one and out). Additionally, unlike their football program, they are not what I would consider a historically powerful program. Barnes built it up to what it is today and it appears he honestly doesn't seem to concerned about getting the program to a NCAA championship level (based on his recent comments). Regarding Villanova, Wright is a good recruiter like Barnes and benefits from being in a large media market. His team also did not perform up to expectations in the tournament (although you cannot deny they did well in 2009 and 2008). Also, he can't really hang his hat on developing NBA superstars as the guys he has sent to the league have been relative busts (I don't think his offense is conducive to developing guys for the NBA). All in all yes you could make the argument those two programs are currently better than Minnesota but its not a very large gap right now and a star recruit like Cory combined with the continued development of our core group can quickly turn the tables. Thats the big difference between football and basketball. One super recruit can turn a program from good to great in one year (not saying thats Cory but its possible).
 

Minnie Soda said:
If Texas and Villanova are better programs, then how the heck is Minnesota supposed to be able to make ground when its own fans are basically telling a kid like Cory that he should go there instead of coming to play for the Gophers?
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I didn't see one place in this thread where anyone said Cory should go to either of those programs. People are saying that if Cory wants to go to a better program, then he should go to one of those programs. That is not opinion or conjecture. It is fact.

Minnie Soda said:
I respect the fact that you don't think Minnesota measures up with Texas and Villanova.
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Again, doesn't think. Knows. Not opinion. Fact. Cannot be argued against. Look for two seconds:

Since 1990 (inclusive):
Minnesota 5 tournaments 1 Sweet Sixteen 1 Elite Eight
Texas 19 tournaments 7 Sweet Sixteens 3 Elite Eights 1 Final Four
Villanova 12 tournaments 4 Sweet Sixteens 2 Elite Eights 1 Final Four

[sarcasm]Looking at that list, I can see how one would think Minnesota is better than Texas or Villanova.[/sarcasm]

Minnie Soda said:
But, honestly, if you think that Cory Joseph could help take Minnesota to the next level -- and I think that's the consensus of most on this board -- then it's probably best for you to just keep those feelings to yourself.
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Huh? Can you repeat the part where you said all about the things?

Minnie Soda said:
I have no idea whether Cory, or other recruits, have ever looked at this site. But we're kidding ourselves if we don't think that 18-year old kids are online, and there's a decent chance that they might read what's written here.
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And if you think a high-profile college basketball recruit gives one iota of consideration to what Joe Q. Rube says on a random message board, you are vastly underestimating the intelligence of the human race.

Minnie Soda said:
So all I'm saying is that we don't need to give recruits reasons to go elsewhere.
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*Delusions of grandeur* with a liberal dose of *thinking your opinion on a sports-themed message board means anything to anyone even tangentially related to the program*.

Boy, it's a good thing recruits actually consider factors outside of which school has the best current and historical program, or every team outside of Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, UCLA, and Kentucky would be in some serious trouble.
 

"However programs like Texas and Villanova are not what I would consider leaps and bounds ahead. Texas has recently recruited well but it rarely shows up on the court at the end of the year. They usually go one or two and out in the tournament (last two years Texas is one and out)."

Texas hasn't exactly been chopped liver in the NCAA Tournament. They have appeared in the NCAA Tournament every year since 1999, and only on two occasions (2004-05 and 2009-10) were they 1 and done. Since 2001-02, the Longhorns are 16-9 in the NCAA Tournament with a Final Four appearance and 5 Sweet 16's (or better). I wouldn't call that "usually one or two and out."

"His (Jay Wright's) team also did not perform up to expectations in the tournament (although you cannot deny they did well in 2009 and 2008)."

Ditto for Villanova, which has fast become one of the "it" programs in college basketball under Jay Wright. Since the 2004-05 season, Wright's teams are 12-6 in the NCAA Tournament with only one 1 and done (2006-07). That includes a Final Four appearance and 4 Sweet 16's (or better). Wright's Villanova teams were performing well in the NCAA Tournament well before the 2007-08 season. He was here for the Elite 8 in Minneapolis in 2005-06. Overall, I'd say Wright's teams have fared exceptionally well in the NCAAs.

The Gophers are making clear progress, and for that I am glad every day we have Tubby, but we have a ways to go before we're in the same ballpark as Texas or Villanova. Certainly stealing Cory from either of those recruiting Titans would be a big step in the that direction.
 

Minnie Soda said:
If Texas and Villanova are better programs, then how the heck is Minnesota supposed to be able to make ground when its own fans are basically telling a kid like Cory that he should go there instead of coming to play for the Gophers? Sure the vast majority of people on here are very supportive of the U of M and its mission, and I'm sure you're among those people. I respect the fact that you don't think Minnesota measures up with Texas and Villanova. That's your right, and I'm sure you have sound reasons for the way you feel. But, honestly, if you think that Cory Joseph could help take Minnesota to the next level -- and I think that's the consensus of most on this board -- then it's probably best for you to just keep those feelings to yourself.

I have no idea whether Cory, or other recruits, have ever looked at this site. But we're kidding ourselves if we don't think that 18-year old kids are online, and there's a decent chance that they might read what's written here. Just look at the situation with Vander Blue at Wisconsin, if you have any doubts about that.

So, I'm not saying that we can't complain when things are bad. If the Gophers were coming off a 10-win season, I'd be moaning, too. But are they bad right now? I think Minnesota's program has a very bright future ahead of it. Convincing kids like Cory to come here is paramount to that taking place. So all I'm saying is that we don't need to give recruits reasons to go elsewhere.
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I have no idea of recruits look at this site or not. I have never said that any recruit should not come here. Minnesota is a great university. One which I have graduated from. I don't know about the Vander Blue situation but if I a recruit makes a decison on what some unknown psoter on a message board thinks IMO that is rather weak reason. I think many give too much weight to what is posted on any message board.
 

SelectionSunday said:
I understand that the Gophers must wait it out for a talent like Joseph, but with that comes great risk. I wouldn't consider it good in any way that Cory's announcement is dragging out. The Gophers will be left standing at the altar searching for scraps if Cory goes elsewhere. And it becomes more painful if Al doesn't get eligible and Justin follows through on transferring.
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Not really.

Looks like Cobbs isn't transferring (though that could change if we get Joseph), and we have to operate as if Nolen will be back, which is a safe assumption.

If we don't get Joseph, we're not replacing him with another 5* recruit at this juncture, sure. But Kevin Noreen just became available and Tubby visited, Brust is still in play, etc.
 

scools12 said:
I have no idea of recruits look at this site or not. I have never said that any recruit should not come here. Minnesota is a great university. One which I have graduated from. I don't know about the Vander Blue situation but if I a recruit makes a decison on what some unknown psoter on a message board thinks IMO that is rather weak reason. I think many give too much weight to what is posted on any message board.
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I don't think what's posted on a message board is the only thing a recruit bases his decision on. Yes, that would truly be sad. But I do think it can give the recruit a general sense for how the public feels about a program. For instance, if I was a kid being recruited by a program whose coach is on the hot seat, and there are countless negative messages posted about how he runs his program, it might have an impact on my decision.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I didn't see one place in this thread where anyone said Cory should go to either of those programs. People are saying that if Cory wants to go to a better program, then he should go to one of those programs. That is not opinion or conjecture. It is fact.



Again, doesn't think. Knows. Not opinion. Fact. Cannot be argued against. Look for two seconds:

Since 1990 (inclusive):
Minnesota 5 tournaments 1 Sweet Sixteen 1 Elite Eight
Texas 19 tournaments 7 Sweet Sixteens 3 Elite Eights 1 Final Four
Villanova 12 tournaments 4 Sweet Sixteens 2 Elite Eights 1 Final Four

[sarcasm]Looking at that list, I can see how one would think Minnesota is better than Texas or Villanova.[/sarcasm]



Huh? Can you repeat the part where you said all about the things?



And if you think a high-profile college basketball recruit gives one iota of consideration to what Joe Q. Rube says on a random message board, you are vastly underestimating the intelligence of the human race.



*Delusions of grandeur* with a liberal dose of *thinking your opinion on a sports-themed message board means anything to anyone even tangentially related to the program*.

Boy, it's a good thing recruits actually consider factors outside of which school has the best current and historical program, or every team outside of Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, UCLA, and Kentucky would be in some serious trouble.
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Gee, thanks so much for taking all that time to construct a concrete argument on WHY NOT to attend the University of Minnesota. I'm sure recruits who happen to find their way to this site will find your researched work very useful. :rolleyes:
 

WanderingGopher said:
Not really.

Looks like Cobbs isn't transferring (though that could change if we get Joseph), and we have to operate as if Nolen will be back, which is a safe assumption.

If we don't get Joseph, we're not replacing him with another 5* recruit at this juncture, sure. But Kevin Noreen just became available and Tubby visited, Brust is still in play, etc.
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When Khalid El Amin picked a school other than Minnesota, I recall Clem saying that he wished El Amin the best, but we would win without him. The Final Four appearance followed closely behind IIRC. I hope Cory comes here- it would be fantastic. If not, Tubby will find a way to win.
 

bga1 said:
When Khalid El Amin picked a school other than Minnesota, I recall Clem saying that he wished El Amin the best, but we would win without him. The Final Four appearance followed closely behind IIRC. I hope Cory comes here- it would be fantastic. If not, Tubby will find a way to win.
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Good point. And I agree. I don't think having Cory Joseph on the roster is the ONLY way that Minnesota is going to win in the future. But, man oh man, why are so many of us providing reasons why a recruit SHOULDN'T come to Minnesota?!
 

Minnie Soda said:
Good point. And I agree. I don't think having Cory Joseph on the roster is the ONLY way that Minnesota is going to win in the future. But, man oh man, why are so many of us providing reasons why a recruit SHOULDN'T come to Minnesota?!
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Nattering nabobs of negativity is what they are. I agree with you Minnie. Coming here would be a GREAT move for Cory considering the whole situation. I can't imagine a better scenario for him.
C'mon Cory- make it easy on mom and dad to see both of you at once!
 

Minnie Soda said:
Gee, thanks so much for taking all that time to construct a concrete argument on WHY NOT to attend the University of Minnesota. I'm sure recruits who happen to find their way to this site will find your researched work very useful. :rolleyes:
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Why do you keep insisting on putting words in people's mouths? I have never once said, or even insinuated, that recruits should not go to the University of Minnesota. How could I, when I moved hundreds of miles away from home to do so myself?

The only point I addressed was your absurd contention that Minnesota is even remotely on the level of Texas or Villanova. It's so asinine that I can't even believe you haven't made an immediate retraction.

Note, once again, how "better school ≠ automatic commitment". I thought it was patently obvious that the average recruit considers the competitiveness of a school as only one among a myriad of factors, but apparently you need to be beaten over the head with it.

And, further, if a team being good is the only reason to watch or follow it, all of the pro and college arenas in the metro would have been mostly empty for the past 20 years.
 

Minnie Soda said:
Are you a Minnesota fan?! Why do we keep shooting our program down? Why do people keep stating, on HERE of all places, that Texas and Villanova are better than Minnesota?! Sure, five years ago, Texas and Villanova were much, much better than Minnesota. But, in the here and now, Minnesota is right up there with those programs, and gaining strength. Tubby Smith gave the Minnesota program instant credibility, and there isn't a recruit in the country who doesn't know that name. He's building this program, and working hard to take it to an unprecedented level. So, please, unless you're a Wisconsin troll just trying to make things difficult, stop publicly stating that Minnesota is a second-class program!!
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Agreed!!
 

dpodoll68 said:
Since 1990 (inclusive):
Minnesota 5 tournaments 1 Sweet Sixteen 1 Elite Eight
Texas 19 tournaments 7 Sweet Sixteens 3 Elite Eights 1 Final Four
Villanova 12 tournaments 4 Sweet Sixteens 2 Elite Eights 1 Final Four

[sarcasm]Looking at that list, I can see how one would think Minnesota is better than Texas or Villanova.[/sarcasm]
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I love how our own 'fans' are so willing to abide by the NCAA penalty when referencing our own history. :rolleyes: I for one refuse to pretend something didn't happen that I know did, as some form of abritrary punishment. Our punishment is 2000-2006, and believe me, it was punishment enough. Here are the actual #'s you reference (I'll assume you're right on Texas and Nova.)

Since 1990 (inclusive):
Minnesota 8 tournaments 2 Sweet Sixteen 2 Elite Eight 1 Final Four
Texas 19 tournaments 7 Sweet Sixteens 3 Elite Eights 1 Final Four
Villanova 12 tournaments 4 Sweet Sixteens 2 Elite Eights 1 Final Four

It still favors Texas and Nova, but not by as much as you're trying to indicate, especially when it comes to having a shot to win it all.
 

exactly...we got busted. if we knew about every team's bending the rules there would probably magically never be any final fours in the record books.
 

howeda7 said:
I love how our own 'fans' are so willing to abide by the NCAA penalty when referencing our own history. :rolleyes: I for one refuse to pretend something didn't happen that I know did, as some form of abritrary punishment. Our punishment is 2000-2006, and believe me, it was punishment enough. Here are the actual #'s you reference (I'll assume you're right on Texas and Nova.)

Since 1990 (inclusive):
Minnesota 8 tournaments 2 Sweet Sixteen 2 Elite Eight 1 Final Four
Texas 19 tournaments 7 Sweet Sixteens 3 Elite Eights 1 Final Four
Villanova 12 tournaments 4 Sweet Sixteens 2 Elite Eights 1 Final Four

It still favors Texas and Nova, but not by as much as you're trying to indicate, especially when it comes to having a shot to win it all.
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As much as I agree the punishment is stupid and arbitrary, we can't pretend it isn't there. The NCAA, who sanctions and administers college basketball, says those things didn't happen, so they didn't. Period. It's sort of like saying that Bush stole the 2000 election, so let's just pretend that Al Gore was president the next 8 years. As much as Bush was illegitimate, he indeed was the president, just like in the eyes of the NCAA, our 1997 Final Four never happened.

And don't even try that "fan" BS with me. Just because I choose to see things as they are, rather than live in a fantasy world where the Gophers didn't cheat, and where we are on the level of Texas or Villanova, doesn't make me any less of a fan.
 

dpodoll68 said:
As much as I agree the punishment is stupid and arbitrary, we can't pretend it isn't there. The NCAA, who sanctions and administers college basketball, says those things didn't happen, so they didn't. Period. It's sort of like saying that Bush stole the 2000 election, so let's just pretend that Al Gore was president the next 8 years. As much as Bush was illegitimate, he indeed was the president, just like in the eyes of the NCAA, our 1997 Final Four never happened.

And don't even try that "fan" BS with me. Just because I choose to see things as they are, rather than live in a fantasy world where the Gophers didn't cheat, and where we are on the level of Texas or Villanova, doesn't make me any less of a fan.
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We can agree to disagree, but trying to tie it to a Presidential Election is a stretch. The reality is that those tournament appearances did actually happen, Al Gore was never actually elected.

And when determining the potential ability of a school to make Final Fours etc. I think they count as much as any of the others. I'm not pretending we didn't cheat. But as I said, the real punishment for that is fact that the program was sent into a black-hole for 7 years. That's a much more significant and real punishment that pretending some games didn't happen years after they were played. I doubt any FSU or Alabama football recruit or Kentucky basketball recruit is going to weigh anything differently because some of the championships they currently boast about may turn out vacated in a few years.
 

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