Marcus: Cory to MN "seems less likely now"; Al Nolen "very out of shape"

Marcus: Cory to MN "seems less likely now"; Al Nolen "very out of shape"

Gophers have holes to fill at point guard and wing
By Marcus Fuller

The Gophers have three players signed in this year's recruiting class, but they haven't filled their biggest needs for next season.

With forward Paul Carter and point guard Justin Cobbs transferring, Minnesota will lose players at two positions where it was already lacking depth. The Gophers now have only one point guard (Al Nolen) and wing forward (Rodney Williams) returning.

Findlay Prep (Nev.) All-American Cory Joseph would be the dream recruit to address Gophers coach Tubby Smith's issues at point guard. But the prospect of Joseph joining his older brother, Devoe, at Minnesota seems less likely now, as his decision gets closer.

I've heard that Cory's main goal is to get to the NBA after one or two years in college. He will have the best chance to do that at Texas or Villanova. It wouldn't surprise me if he has already made up his mind between one of the two schools.

If that's the case, the Gophers will have to move quickly to sign someone else to play point guard. Smith is expected to visit former Iowa recruit and Illinois native Ben Brust. But Smith will have to beat out Wisconsin coach Bo Ryan and Cal coach Mike Montgomery, who have already offered Brust a scholarship. Brust is more of a combo guard, but he is the best available point guard for Minnesota's level.

The Gophers are scheduled to have 6-foot-9 Brehm Prep (Ill.) forward Oto Osenieks visit Friday. Osenieks also visited Iowa State, Providence and Florida. He could be a replacement for Carter. He is listed as a power forward but has a nice looking three-point shot. But can he play defense? That is a must in Smith's system.

The late signing period started Wednesday, so the Gophers won't have much to choose from. They don't want to settle on anyone, but they might not have a choice.

Right now, the 2010-11 roster looks like this:
PG - Al Nolen
SG/PG -- Devoe Joseph
SG -- Blake Hoffarber
SG -- Austin Hollins*
SF -- Rodney Williams
PF -- Trevor Mbakwe
C/F -- Ralph Sampson III
C/F -- Colton Iverson
C/F -- Maurice Walker*
C -- Elliott Eliason*
*2010 recruits

-- A new NCAA rule passed recently allows coaches to have conversations with recruits at summer camps. This makes elite camps even more beneficial to programs for recruiting purposes. But Smith can't take advantage of it, because he's not expected to have an elite camp for the second straight summer.

-- Smith likely will take advantage of another new NCAA rule effective Aug. 10. The rule allows incoming freshmen to join the team on a foreign tour during the summer. The Gophers could have up to six newcomers this year, so taking a trip could go a long way toward building chemistry. I was told that the team is trying to schedule a trip to Canada because it would be less costly and a homecoming for Walker, Devoe Joseph and possibly Cory Joseph if he signs with Minnesota.

-- Nolen is the only true point guard left on Minnesota's roster if Cobbs leaves. If Cory Joseph signs elsewhere, Nolen could return to his starting position. But he still has a lot of work to do on and off the court. Nolen has to stay academically eligible to play next season. I've heard that he has looked very out of shape and far from his old self in workouts. But he will have the summer to return to form.

http://blogs.twincities.com/gophers/2010/04/gophers-have-lot-more-work-to.html

Go Gophers!!

I really don't understand the people that say - if you go to Texas or Nova you have a better chance of going pro early. Nonsense. At the Big Ten level - if you are that good, you get noticed. If it's based on the team, Minnesota will be as good or better than those two if Joseph comes here. Sadly this is the line of reasoning that comes from our local scribes. Not only do we not get any home cooking from these guys- we get the opposite.

Hassan Whiteside, a top 75 recruit last year, picked Marshall over bigger programs. He's projected to be a lottery pick this year.

If you can play, you'll be noticed by scouts. There is no difference in showcasing your skills at Minnesota vs Texas and Nova. A PG can flourish in Tubby's system just as well as in any other.

Whatever

These last few days Marcus seems to be throwing stuff out based on speculation and not based on inside info. His "inside info" seems to be speculation by others. I doubt our chances are higher or lower than they were a week ago or two weeks ago.

I've heard that he has looked very out of shape and far from his old self in workouts. But he will have the summer to return to form.

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Lol. Marcus probably read Nolen's twitter that said he ..

Damn i cant stop eating this is gonna be a problem in the future once my athletic days have run out

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The players are still working out, still lifting, and still playing basketball. Marcus does leave himself a nice out though in that " he'll have the summer to return to form ".

bga1 said:

I really don't understand the people that say - if you go to Texas or Nova you have a better chance of going pro early. Nonsense. At the Big Ten level - if you are that good, you get noticed. If it's based on the team, Minnesota will be as good or better than those two if Joseph comes here. Sadly this is the line of reasoning that comes from our local scribes. Not only do we not get any home cooking from these guys- we get the opposite.

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I hate to be a 'negative nelly' but the quote from Cory's interview posted on GH Cory mentioned "style of play" as something that appealed to him about Texas. Style of play may enter into getting to NBA quickly.

bga1 said:

I really don't understand the people that say - if you go to Texas or Nova you have a better chance of going pro early.

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Pewterschmidt said:

There is no difference in showcasing your skills at Minnesota vs Texas and Nova. A PG can flourish in Tubby's system just as well as in any other.

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I guess I have to disagree with these quotes.

Look at players like Devoe Joseph, who was supposed to make a huge impact as a freshman, being a highly heralded recruit...he averaged 5-6 pts/game in 15 min/game? Hardly stats that would make highly heralded recruits knocking on our door.

Based on Tubby's system, freshman rarely have a chance to make a big impact because
1) they usually don't get as much clock as they do at other schools because they haven't learned to play major D-1 defense. If they haven't learned defense, Tubby won't play them
2) Freshman appear to have a very short leash in Tubby's system. A mistake, definitely two, will land you on the bench pretty quickly
3) Offensively, whatever our offense supposedly is, it really doesn't appear that a large % of our players can understand/run it easily, much less freshman coming in. High-low plays a huge part of our offense, and guards/wings that want to create don't have a lot of room for creativity when you have a play called from the bench almost every time down the floor that usually revolves around the posts.

Call me a Debbie Downer, but I just don't see the sexiness in our system that most high-major, blue chip recruits look for to showcase their skills for a year or two before jumping to the NBA.

bga1 said:

I really don't understand the people that say - if you go to Texas or Nova you have a better chance of going pro early. Nonsense. At the Big Ten level - if you are that good, you get noticed. If it's based on the team, Minnesota will be as good or better than those two if Joseph comes here. Sadly this is the line of reasoning that comes from our local scribes. Not only do we not get any home cooking from these guys- we get the opposite.

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Style of play.

Playing time.

Showcase individual skills as apposed to developing the team concept.

Exposure.

That is why Calipari is so successful with the one and done's.

Boy, Marcus is full of goodies these days.

So now it's Cory wants to go to the NBA after one or two years and therefore Minnesota is out of it. Okay. Then to add further brilliance he moves on to we should be worried because Al Nolen is out of shape after missing the second semester and now it's the offseason. Wow was that insightful.

This is another one of those "filling space" columns without much to add to the conversation. If Cory decides to go to any of the other schools on his list, that's fine. Only Cory will know for sure why he's going where's he's going. But this whole "I heard that he wants to do this and thus he can't possibly be a Gopher" is almost as insightful as the "I heard that Oregon offered Tubby the job" nonsense he spewed a few weeks ago.

Yea, I read this last night. My immediate reaction: Given Marcus doesn't provide any evidence or any source it is all him talking out of his (em) rear end. Who really knows for sure what Cory is going to do? Certainly not Marcus or anyone other than Cory.

jovs said:

Showcase individual skills as apposed to developing the team concept.

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You can showcase individual skills within a team concept. We saw a very talented team of youngsters fall apart this season in Texas because there was constant friction between the talented newcomers and the returning players and no direction or answers from the bench. It's a balancing act and many a coach has run into the same problem over the years. Calipari's good at it, Pitino was at one time, Tom Izzo is another that comes to mind in that regard.


I'll never buy the notion that you can have too much talent. You can do a poor job of motivating, of developing, of getting that talent to sacrifice for a greater good but you can never have too much to the detriment of the team concept.

Incidentally, I understand that Nolan is working out. He is balling, lifting, etc. How do I know? Because he has said so. In fact he played last night to the point of exhaustion and lifted yesterday morning. He was working with one of the assistant coaches on a ball handling program to enhance his handle. So, please, Marcus, either provide evidence or shut the pie hole.

ShowinGoldyLove said:

I guess I have to disagree with these quotes.

Look at players like Devoe Joseph, who was supposed to make a huge impact as a freshman, being a highly heralded recruit...he averaged 5-6 pts/game in 15 min/game? Hardly stats that would make highly heralded recruits knocking on our door.

Based on Tubby's system, freshman rarely have a chance to make a big impact because
1) they usually don't get as much clock as they do at other schools because they haven't learned to play major D-1 defense. If they haven't learned defense, Tubby won't play them
2) Freshman appear to have a very short leash in Tubby's system. A mistake, definitely two, will land you on the bench pretty quickly
3) Offensively, whatever our offense supposedly is, it really doesn't appear that a large % of our players can understand/run it easily, much less freshman coming in. High-low plays a huge part of our offense, and guards/wings that want to create don't have a lot of room for creativity when you have a play called from the bench almost every time down the floor that usually revolves around the posts.

Call me a Debbie Downer, but I just don't see the sexiness in our system that most high-major, blue chip recruits look for to showcase their skills for a year or two before jumping to the NBA.

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All solid points. I want Cory to be a Gopher as much as anyone else, but Texas has a proven track record or showcasing underclassmen enough to produce high draft picks (Durant, Aldridge, Augustin come to mind off the top of my head). If I was in his position and the NBA was my number one goal, I would go to Texas for a year or two as well.

MinneMike said:

Yea, I read this last night. My immediate reaction: Given Marcus doesn't provide any evidence or any source it is all him talking out of his (em) rear end. Who really knows for sure what Cory is going to do? Certainly not Marcus or anyone other than Cory.

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On a side note, I'm always amused at how important some of these folks think they are. My favorite was Jerry Meyer from rivals the other day basically saying that since Cory hasn't let anything slip in terms of where he might be leaning that his mother probably doesn't even know. In other words, because Meyer didn't know it's possible even mom Joseph doesn't know what's going on. Yeah, because the order of who knows where Cory is leaning goes something like this: Cory, mom Joseph and then of course, Jerry Meyer.

ShowinGoldyLove said:

I guess I have to disagree with these quotes.

Look at players like Devoe Joseph, who was supposed to make a huge impact as a freshman, being a highly heralded recruit...he averaged 5-6 pts/game in 15 min/game? Hardly stats that would make highly heralded recruits knocking on our door.

Based on Tubby's system, freshman rarely have a chance to make a big impact because
1) they usually don't get as much clock as they do at other schools because they haven't learned to play major D-1 defense. If they haven't learned defense, Tubby won't play them
2) Freshman appear to have a very short leash in Tubby's system. A mistake, definitely two, will land you on the bench pretty quickly
3) Offensively, whatever our offense supposedly is, it really doesn't appear that a large % of our players can understand/run it easily, much less freshman coming in. High-low plays a huge part of our offense, and guards/wings that want to create don't have a lot of room for creativity when you have a play called from the bench almost every time down the floor that usually revolves around the posts.

Call me a Debbie Downer, but I just don't see the sexiness in our system that most high-major, blue chip recruits look for to showcase their skills for a year or two before jumping to the NBA.

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Cory plays defense. He'll play a ton. If he's ready to play in the NBA in two years - Tubby will play him. Devoe was a top 100 recruit- not even top 50 and not at the level of Cory in expectations at all. There's a lot of top 100 guys at major programs around the country that are riding a lot of pine their freshman year.

As to Tubby giving the short leash to Frosh - I think that's true but not so much with Sampson who he felt he had a big need for. Also, Nolen played a ton for Tubby his freshman year when there were few other options.

On the offense- I can't say I disagree. I can't understand his offense that's for sure.

Have you guys not heard of Rajon Rondo? The kid was an elite point guard and he started his freshman year at Kentucky and rarely left the game. He was a star. He stayed 2 years and now look at him. He's one of the league's best point guards. If Cory has any doubts, just look at how well Rondo is doing. He benefited greatly from Tubby's tutelage.

ShowinGoldyLove said:

I guess I have to disagree with these quotes.

Look at players like Devoe Joseph, who was supposed to make a huge impact as a freshman, being a highly heralded recruit...he averaged 5-6 pts/game in 15 min/game? Hardly stats that would make highly heralded recruits knocking on our door.

Based on Tubby's system, freshman rarely have a chance to make a big impact because
1) they usually don't get as much clock as they do at other schools because they haven't learned to play major D-1 defense. If they haven't learned defense, Tubby won't play them
2) Freshman appear to have a very short leash in Tubby's system. A mistake, definitely two, will land you on the bench pretty quickly
3) Offensively, whatever our offense supposedly is, it really doesn't appear that a large % of our players can understand/run it easily, much less freshman coming in. High-low plays a huge part of our offense, and guards/wings that want to create don't have a lot of room for creativity when you have a play called from the bench almost every time down the floor that usually revolves around the posts.

Call me a Debbie Downer, but I just don't see the sexiness in our system that most high-major, blue chip recruits look for to showcase their skills for a year or two before jumping to the NBA.

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Tubby has started freshmen everywhere he's coached. At UK (for example) these frosh started.

1999 - Tay Prince and Desmond Allison shared SG starting duties.
2000 - Keith Bogans started at SG.
2001 - Jason Parker started at C and Gerald Fitch at SG.
2002 - Chuck Hayes started at F most of the season.
2005 - Randolph Morris (C) and Rajon Rondo (PG) started all year.

Of those 8 players, 6 made the NBA.

The Truth said:

You can showcase individual skills within a team concept. We saw a very talented team of youngsters fall apart this season in Texas because there was constant friction between the talented newcomers and the returning players and no direction or answers from the bench. It's a balancing act and many a coach has run into the same problem over the years. Calipari's good at it, Pitino was at one time, Tom Izzo is another that comes to mind in that regard.


I'll never buy the notion that you can have too much talent. You can do a poor job of motivating, of developing, of getting that talent to sacrifice for a greater good but you can never have too much to the detriment of the team concept.

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UK (2002) is an example of "too much talent" I think. That was Tubby's most "talented" UK team but had one of his worst results.

Saying a top 100 recruit like Devoe dissappointed his freshman year, averaging 5-6 pts a game and 15/min a game, you don't watch much basketball. Check the stats look up those players ranked 60 to 100 and tell my how much they play and average their freshman year. If you believed the local hype about the canadian kid, and had him ranked higher in your mind...who's fault is that? Devoe will be a very solid college player. He is not a McDonald's all-american. His NBA chances are bleak.

I think the point he's trying to make is that, regardless of truth, if you ask random people across the country, they're going to say that Nova or Texas are better for turning players pro quickly. Of course people here will say otherwise, and I agree with those people, but sometimes perception is reality, and that's something we're going to have battle here until we can prove otherwise with regularity.

Hopefully Cory thinks about it carefully, but if he went to Texas thinking that that was his best option to turn him into a high draft pick in a year or two, it'd be a little hard to fault him for that logic.

Perception can be reality. How many recent gopher guards are in the NBA?

There may be a point about the style of play, recent players in the NBA, etc. but if he's looking for exposure, he'll get more here then Texas or Villanova. All will get thier play on ESPN, CBS, etc. But every Big 10 game is on national television and easy to find for pretty much anyone with a satellite dish or digitial cable. The Big XII's tv contract is a joke, and the majority of games are carried on local affiliates in the footprint only. The Big East is similar. Just because it gets Digger Phelps and Dickie V more excited does not actually equal more exposure.

march madness said:

How many recent gopher guards are in the NBA?

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Past 10 years = 0.

Friend Of Tubby said:

Tubby has started freshmen everywhere he's coached. At UK (for example) these frosh started.

1999 - Tay Prince and Desmond Allison shared SG starting duties.
2000 - Keith Bogans started at SG.
2001 - Jason Parker started at C and Gerald Fitch at SG.
2002 - Chuck Hayes started at F most of the season.
2005 - Randolph Morris (C) and Rajon Rondo (PG) started all year.

Of those 8 players, 6 made the NBA.

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Not trying to pick a fight here, but of those players only Rondo was a high draft pick which is what Marcus apparently thinks is of priority to Cory. Bogans was a 2nd rounder while Hayes and Randolph didn't even get drafted. Kentucky also had much more national recognition than Minnesota when it comes to draft exposure. I do think Tubby could do a lot of good for Cory's game and think he is an NBA caliber player regardless, but I'm just not sure if Cory realizes this. It's not idiotic to think his chances of being a high NBA draft pick are better at another school in another system.

ShowinGoldyLove said:

Past 10 years = 0.

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How many Gopher guards in the past 10 years came in as top 50, top 25 or top 10 players? Same answer. Zero. Talent in talent out.

-- Nolen is the only true point guard left on Minnesota's roster if Cobbs leaves. If Cory Joseph signs elsewhere, Nolen could return to his starting position. But he still has a lot of work to do on and off the court. Nolen has to stay academically eligible to play next season. I've heard that he has looked very out of shape and far from his old self in workouts. But he will have the summer to return to form.


He must have been hitting the books hard to be out of shape.... so at this time he is out of shape but will be ELIGIBLE and in shape when the season starts. No sense being in shape if he can't play.

I agree that Cory's chances at leaving school early and being a high draft pick are probably higher at other schools. I just wish it wasn't so blatantly obvious that Marcus is just throwing his own fecal matter against the wall to see if it sticks. Can't any reporter in this town do some reporting? I don't want Marcus to be a Gopher hole poster. We speculate. He should report. Plus, it doesn't help that he apparently gets quite a few of his facts from this very board. And, would it kill ONE person in this town to be positive ONCE in a while? When the Star Tribune and Pioneer Press finally go out of business, I for one won't be crying.

jmag21 said:

I agree that Cory's chances at leaving school early and being a high draft pick are probably higher at other schools. I just wish it wasn't so blatantly obvious that Marcus is just throwing his own fecal matter against the wall to see if it sticks. Can't any reporter in this town do some reporting? I don't want Marcus to be a Gopher hole poster. We speculate. He should report. Plus, it doesn't help that he apparently gets quite a few of his facts from this very board. And, would it kill ONE person in this town to be positive ONCE in a while? When the Star Tribune and Pioneer Press finally go out of business, I for one won't be crying.

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Sadly, Myron is close to pulling even with Marcus as a beat writer when it comes to factual reporting, decent writing and leaving the opinions to the columnnists. Unfortunatly, most of it is Marcus going backward, not Myron getting better.

This all becomes meaningless banter in a few days. Wait, its meaningless banter now. Just relax, what happens will happen with or without your imput (and especially Fuller's) and enjoy the weekend.

ShowinGoldyLove said:

Past 10 years = 0.

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How many graduated Tubby recruited point guards have we had in the past 10 years = 0