Iverson and Joseph are our weakest links in regular rotation

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GopherFish

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Except for one game and a half this year, Iverson has stunk. He has ugly shot, can't hit free throws and doesn't protect ball when rebounding and shooting. He kills offensive momentum. His lack of athleticism can't be helped, but someone should teach him to protect ball better rebounding and use a higher release shooting. Hopefully, we get Royce and Trevor next year or Eliason shines next year so Colton can be limited to being a bench banger but not someone that needs to be counted on.

Considering the hype of Devoe Joseph, I am surprised how little he's improved from last year. He is not a very good shooter and doesn't contribute alot in other areas. He also is turnover prone. He is not ready to fill Westbrook's shoes. I hope he improves alot next year or at least helps us land Cory, but I sure hope Austin Hollins can shoot well so we aren't dependent on Devoe. Right now, Rodney and Blake would be better options at the 2.
 

Did you watch the game? AL Nolen needs to be benched. I don't care how good of a defensive player he is. Nolen is a 34% shooter for his career, and the sad thing most of his misses are in the lane. If he starts distributing like he is suppose to he is a great player, but he has not been doing that......Hoffaber was exposed yet again against good defenders. 25% shooting and only three points. My biggest concern with Hoffarber is he can't guard anyone because he is so slow. I for one will be glad to see Nolen and Hoffarber gone after next year.
 

GopherFish said:
Except for one game and a half this year, Iverson has stunk. He has ugly shot, can't hit free throws and doesn't protect ball when rebounding and shooting. He kills offensive momentum. His lack of athleticism can't be helped, but someone should teach him to protect ball better rebounding and use a higher release shooting. Hopefully, we get Royce and Trevor next year or Eliason shines next year so Colton can be limited to being a bench banger but not someone that needs to be counted on.

Considering the hype of Devoe Joseph, I am surprised how little he's improved from last year. He is not a very good shooter and doesn't contribute alot in other areas. He also is turnover prone. He is not ready to fill Westbrook's shoes. I hope he improves alot next year or at least helps us land Cory, but I sure hope Austin Hollins can shoot well so we aren't dependent on Devoe. Right now, Rodney and Blake would be better options at the 2.
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Lighten up. Iverson can bang with the best of them and from what I see, we can use some of that. He may not be silky smooth, but give him some time.

I think Devoe is trying to find himself. He thinks he needs to be a scorer and that results in him forcing the play sometimes. IMO, he will come into his own with a little time and as the scoring hierachy changes. He is a good defender and generally handles the ball well. He has far more value to us other than trying to lure his brother here!

I can think of a lot of Gopher teams over the years when certain players hit the floor, you waited for trouble to happen. I don't feel this way about any player on the current team. While we lack a "superstar" we are very solid top to bottom.
 

Joseph has not been shooting that well, but you can hardly complain about that when you posit that Rodney would play better at the two. Clearly they are very different players, but Joseph is clearly the better shooter. Also, Joseph is much more athletic than Hoffarber and does not get exposed as much on the defensive side of the ball.
 

GN

GopherNation said:
Did you watch the game? AL Nolen needs to be benched. I don't care how good of a defensive player he is. Nolen is a 34% shooter for his career, and the sad thing most of his misses are in the lane. If he starts distributing like he is suppose to he is a great player, but he has not been doing that......Hoffaber was exposed yet again against good defenders. 25% shooting and only three points. My biggest concern with Hoffaber is he can't guard anyone because he is so slow. I for one will be glad to see Nolen and Hoffaber gone after next year.
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HOFFARBER
HOFFARBER
HOFFARBER
 




How many different pronunciations/spellings are there? My favorite --- Hoffbarber.
 

Other than blocking a few shots, Ralph is not real

especially productive.

I think Iverson can be an asset, he has a bigger upside than Ralph who will always be a soft player. I hope to never see RIII's 15-18 foot jump shot ever again.

I like Al Nolen's defense on other quick/small guards and that is about it. More so than his shooting I do not like the fact that the ball stops moving rather soon after Al gets the ball and starts dribbing.

Al makes some nice passes for assists once in a while, but Cobbs, Hoffarber, and Joseph all keep the ball moving. Al usually starts to dribble, and kills the flow of the ball and game.
 



I've been very disappointed with Devoe this year, and its mostly his inability to hit shots. The main thing i've noticed with him is that his shot looks different this year; he's shooting a much flatter ball and his release doesn't look as smooth. I remember being excited about him last year because of his high release and and big arc on his shot. Hopefully, this is correctable and we might just be seeing a sophomore shooting slump out of him. Right now, he knows he's cold, and you can tell he's lost a little bit of confidence. The one positive i've noticed about his game is that his ballhandling is better, and he's shown the ability to run the point (he looked overwhelmed last year).

As for Iverson, I love that everyone refers to him as a "banger". I feel like "banger" is almost the baseball equivalent of a "gamer" aka someone with no real skill but possesses intangible qualities like "heart". Iverson is woefully unathletic, not a great rebounder or defender (due to the lack of any kind of vertical, and I would guess he has short arms as well) and he takes way too long with the ball allowing multiple defenders converge on him.

I can't be mad at Nolen. His ability to get to the basket is still very good. He's always been a terrible finisher and will continue to be that way. I was just dissapointed there weren't more people open off of Nolen's drives. Him getting stuffed that many times was just a testament to how terrible our half court offense is. He was playing out of abilities because literally no one else besides Westbrook has the ability to break down a defender.

And Hoffarber? Well, i'm not really surprised with his performance against a team with lock down defense like Purdue. He's been praised for his all-around game all year, but I feel like he's pretty much worthless if he's not able to find open looks for himself.
 

oak_street1981 said:
I think Iverson can be an asset, he has a bigger upside than Ralph who will always be a soft player. I hope to never see RIII's 15-18 foot jump shot ever again.
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Woah, woah, woah. Ralph's jump shot aside, which is pretty sweet for a guy his size, I wouldn't call him soft. Well, even if you want to call him soft, who cares? I would rather have a "soft" big-man who scores and plays defense than a "banger" who misses everything outside of 6 inches and is a foul magnet.

Also, comparisons right now between Ralph, Iverson, their skill-sets and current abilities are pretty valid. One is not clearly better than the other. However, I have never heard anyone say that Iverson has more upside than Ralph. In fact, I have always heard, and felt, the exact opposite. Given a few years, Ralph could develop into a much more dynamic, complete player than Iverson. Ralph could be playing in the NBA in a few years, if he develops, Iverson's chances at that are decidedly lower.
 

MEK711 said:
The main thing i've noticed with him is that his shot looks different this year; he's shooting a much flatter ball and his release doesn't look as smooth. I remember being excited about him last year because of his high release and and big arc on his shot. Hopefully, this is correctable and we might just be seeing a sophomore shooting slump out of him.
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If Hoffarber can turn his shot around, so can Devoe.
 

oak_street1981 said:
I think Iverson can be an asset, he has a bigger upside than Ralph who will always be a soft player. I hope to never see RIII's 15-18 foot jump shot ever again.
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Personally, I disagree.

Iverson has awful hands. Just awful. Rebounds and passes just bounce right off his hands with regularity. He also has no touch down low. I love his effort and physicality, but it rarely seems to result in anything positive other than just a thought like "wow, nice hustle."

Sampson does play soft sometimes. But I guess for me, at least he catches the ball (though, admittedly, his hands are also not that great- but they are significantly better than Iverson's).

I think that our most glaring weakness is definitely our inside play (or lack-there-of) on offense. It is the reason why our perimeter players struggle to get open shots within the halfcourt. Neither Iverson or Sampson seems to be able to be the regular inside presence that we need, but I believe Sampson has that potential, though I'd have liked to see him further along than he is. I just don't see any offensive potential with Iverson, but I would love to be proven wrong!
 



GopherNation said:
I for one will be glad to see Nolen gone after next year.
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I was thinking the same thing. You may add Westbrook to that list too. While watching a game you can predict when Westbrook is going to take an ill advised shot, drive to the hoop, or long 3 pointer.

If Westbrook makes a 3 you can 99% of the time predict he is going to take another 3 on the very next offensive possession.
 

Flash23 said:
I was thinking the same thing. You may add Westbrook to that list too. While watching a game you can predict when Westbrook is going to take an ill advised shot, drive to the hoop, or long 3 pointer.

If Westbrook makes a 3 you can 99% of the time predict he is going to take another 3 on the very next offensive possession.
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Westbrook has always frustrated me in this way. That, and the terrible dribbling that he displays at least a few times a game. To be fair, he is one of the only players on the team (maybe the only one) who can catch fire and carry a team, but it is still frustrating.
 

Westbrook is one of the all-time worst ball handlers I have seen amongst Gophers who were expected to frequently handle the ball. That said, he is also one of my favorite Gopher BB players for a host of other reasons, one of which is that he's a guy who can put the team on his shoulders. Now, once we're up there let's just hope he carries us in the right direction.
 

I just suffered through watching the game again (dvr). There is a lot of blame to go around, but watch Devoe.... Nobody had a worse all around game then him. In all aspects he was pathetic.
 

Devoe can and probably will improve his shooting but his game still has major flaws. It was his guy who drained a three in his face (not uncommon), sloppy one-handed passing, bad shot selection and a poor defender on and away from the ball. The guy showed little last year and nothing this season, he cannot be our future.
 

GopherNation said:
Did you watch the game? AL Nolen needs to be benched. I don't care how good of a defensive player he is. Nolen is a 34% shooter for his career, and the sad thing most of his misses are in the lane. If he starts distributing like he is suppose to he is a great player, but he has not been doing that......Hoffaber was exposed yet again against good defenders. 25% shooting and only three points. My biggest concern with Hoffarber is he can't guard anyone because he is so slow. I for one will be glad to see Nolen and Hoffarber gone after next year.
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Blake Hoffarber scored 24 points against Iowa and reached double figures five games in a row before tonight. Could I ask how you can complain about that?
 

I think it's easy to get on players when we play a bad game; it exposes a number of weaknesses that we can all nit-pick sitting back on our couches. However, the sun will rise tomorrow, we will practice tomorrow, and play another game on Saturday.

Life goes on.
 

So many issues with this that I don't even know where to start.

GopherNation said:
Did you watch the game? AL Nolen needs to be benched. I don't care how good of a defensive player he is. Nolen is a 34% shooter for his career, and the sad thing most of his misses are in the lane. If he starts distributing like he is suppose to he is a great player, but he has not been doing that......Hoffaber was exposed yet again against good defenders. 25% shooting and only three points. My biggest concern with Hoffarber is he can't guard anyone because he is so slow. I for one will be glad to see Nolen and Hoffarber gone after next year.
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Flash23 said:
I was thinking the same thing. You may add Westbrook to that list too. While watching a game you can predict when Westbrook is going to take an ill advised shot, drive to the hoop, or long 3 pointer.

If Westbrook makes a 3 you can 99% of the time predict he is going to take another 3 on the very next offensive possession.
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So Westbook sucks (leading scorer)...Hoffarber sucks (second-leading scorer and best 3-point shooter)...Nolen sucks (best defensive guard on team).
Who do you want to play, Bostick? Cobbs? Williams? It's amazing how short of a memory people have. BLAKE HOFFARBER SCORED 24 POINTS LAST GAME. He reached double-figures in five straight games. Westbrook was a beast against Penn State. HE SINGLE-HANDILY WON THAT GAME FOR THE GOPHERS (not to mention Wisconsin last season.). And now you wanna bench him!?!?!?!?
 

I agree

Cant wait for the rematch... Life goes one.

Need saturday's game and I hope Turner plays because it will be a better win for the resume if he does. Gophs will win if Turner plays or not.
 

BigGopherFan said:
Blake Hoffarber scored 24 points against Iowa and reached double figures five games in a row before tonight. Could I ask how you can complain about that?
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I don't think Hoff was the primary problem tonight (Iverson is my non-player of the game), but once again we saw that against talented teams he really can't get open. No one in Minnesota loves Tubby's soft non-conference schedule more than Hoffarber.
 

BigGopherFan said:
So Westbook sucks (leading scorer)...Hoffarber sucks (second-leading scorer and best 3-point shooter)...Nolen sucks (best defensive guard on team).
Who do you want to play, Bostick? Cobbs? Williams? It's amazing how short of a memory people have. BLAKE HOFFARBER SCORED 24 POINTS LAST GAME. He reached double-figures in five straight games. Westbrook was a beast against Penn State. HE SINGLE-HANDILY WON THAT GAME FOR THE GOPHERS (not to mention Wisconsin last season.). And now you wanna bench him!?!?!?!?
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My problem with Westbrook is if he knocks down a couple of shots he thinks he is on fire and then starts to think he can make everything. I do not have enough fingers to count the number of times he drove to the hoop, turned the ball over trying to create his own shot, and chucked up terrible 3's which lead to an opponents run. Countless times he has killed a Gopher run with his me first attitude. (Not this game because we never had a legit run this game)

When the game was slipping against Purdue he committed an offensive foul trying to take over, turned the ball over on another possession, AND even killed our momentum when we got a steal from our press and then decided it was more advantageous for him to try and score 1 on 3, which ultimately lead to a fast break for Purdue when he got rejected.

I agree he is probably our best pure scorer, yes he can carry our team (sometimes), and if he won games for us ALL the time there wouldn't be an issue. Obviously this doesn't happen. He needs to make better decisions, play under control, and play with his team (not just looking for his).

And everyone had a terrible game with the exception of Paul Carter. What I stated above happens all the time with Westbrook.

P.S. I didn't say bench him. I will be relieved when he is out of the program.
 

BigGopherFan said:
Blake Hoffarber scored 24 points against Iowa and reached double figures five games in a row before tonight. Could I ask how you can complain about that?
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I think he is saying that Hoff can't create his own shot he needs to be open initially and in rhythm. He isn't quick enough to dribble drive and that isn't his game. He is a spot up, rhythm shooter. If defenses don't give him any room to breathe you can pretty much lock him down.
 

Iverson and Joseph

GopherFish is right on the money. Iverson has a 3 inch vertical and is prone to missing 6 inch shots. Joseph THINKS he's a good shooter, but in 1 1/2 seasons has shown he's not. He's also prone to being picked. Cobb, Hoffarber, Nolen, and Westbrook are all clearly better than this guy.
 

Don't forget he has the worst hands (does he have fingers to grasp the ball?) And when he goes for a layup he somehow manages to misjudge his angle 90% of the time and the ball hits off the backboard to the weak side at 100 mph.
 

GopherNation said:
Did you watch the game? AL Nolen needs to be benched. I don't care how good of a defensive player he is. Nolen is a 34% shooter for his career, and the sad thing most of his misses are in the lane. If he starts distributing like he is suppose to he is a great player, but he has not been doing that......Hoffaber was exposed yet again against good defenders. 25% shooting and only three points. My biggest concern with Hoffarber is he can't guard anyone because he is so slow. I for one will be glad to see Nolen and Hoffarber gone after next year.
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Just because you watched the game, that doesn't mean you have any idea what you are talking about. Nolen has been great in most games, but wasn't great against Purdue. He still had a better game than Westbrook, Hoff, Cobbs, and Devoe. 1-10 is bad, but he still got to the line a fair amount. Nolen has played well this season.
 

You struggle against one of the best defensive teams in the country and people start calling for heads. Come on. Give Purdue some credit for playing great defense and realize that every player and every team have some bad offensive games. I've been pretty happy with out offense this year (I know it was against some pretty bad teams, but feel free to remind me anyways). It was one game. Let's not overreact here.
 

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