Will Be Better Jobs Next Year Than Minnesota If Brew Is Fired

[akgopher]

One aspect to Brew being on the hot seat that no one is addressing is where we'll be in the pecking order of openings if we are looking for a new coach. There could be better openings that the Notre Dame, Texas Tech, Cincinnati, and Kansas jobs this year. There's a good chance Michigan and Colorado could be looking next year and this opening is much less attractive than those two. I'm all about taking a hard look at keeping Coach Brewster next year, but who's better that will come here? Would Tuberville turn Colorado down for us?

[Bob_Loblaw]

Michigan is obviously the best job (assuming RichRod doesn't turn it around), but i'd have a hard time imagining that they wouldn't go and get Harbaugh and call it a day.

There are some other possible big jobs that could open...
LSU (Miles clock management is wearing thin in Baton Rouge)
Georgia (they'd have to have a pretty bad season)
Texas A&M
Colorado
Maryland
Arizona St.
Washington St.
A terrible season could put Miami on that list as well

[AhliBobwa]

One aspect to Brew being on the hot seat that no one is addressing is where we'll be in the pecking order of openings if we are looking for a new coach. There could be better openings that the Notre Dame, Texas Tech, Cincinnati, and Kansas jobs this year. There's a good chance Michigan and Colorado could be looking next year and this opening is much less attractive than those two. I'm all about taking a hard look at keeping Coach Brewster next year, but who's better that will come here? Would Tuberville turn Colorado down for us?

Umm....Minnesota is a better job than Colorado. WAY more upside, better facilities, etc.

[Studwell55]

Do you really think Maturi has this thought out so well? This man makes exactly one decision at a time. First, fire somebody. Next, assemble a list of coaches you might be interested in. Then, contact third parties who might help establish a back channel.

The irony is that firing your guy should really be the last step!

[mnboiler]

And if the LSU or Georgia job is open you think Joel Maturi wouldn't call Les Miles or Mark Richt right away. Tuberville would be a great get. Stay away from DickRob(A-Hole), Charlie Wiess(See DickRod add in the fact he can't coach), Mike Leach, Mark Mangino(both PR Nightmares).

How do you not call Miles or Richt right away if you are looking for a coach.

[Bob_Loblaw]

I'd be interested in Richt, but Les Miles makes Denny Green's clock management look genius.

[littlebigboy]

I like the idea that Brewster has the pgm on the winning track and all you nay sayers eat CROW!!!!

[GoAUpher]

How do you not call Miles or Richt right away if you are looking for a coach.

You can't. I can think of reasons why you don't end up hiring them (mostly that we might not be able to afford them). Otherwise, yea, you definitely call.

[GopherGod]

Umm....Minnesota is a better job than Colorado. WAY more upside, better facilities, etc.


Agreed, Colorado has a state law where only X number of employees of the university can get multi-year contracts. As a result, Colorado has a hard time getting good assistant coaches to stay there when they can go to another school and get a multi-year contract.

[akgopher]

Tubberville talking to Texas Tech. Man it's cold out there, but that's Lubbock.

[howeda7]

Do you really think Maturi has this thought out so well? This man makes exactly one decision at a time. First, fire somebody. Next, assemble a list of coaches you might be interested in. Then, contact third parties who might help establish a back channel.

The irony is that firing your guy should really be the last step!

How a good AD fires/hires a coach:

1. Keep list of candidates at all times

2. Make decision to fire coach

3. Open back channels with candidates

4. Fire the coach

5. Open formal communications

6. Make hire.

How Maturi does it:

1. Decide to fire coach.

2. Dither for 6 to 9 months to make absolutely sure you don't want to change your mind. If news of #1 leaks out, give coach half-hearted endorsement.

3. Fire Coach during long-winded non-sensical press conference

4. Begin to think about replacements

5. Form committee to suggest replacements since you don't really have any in mind

6. Choose an NFL TE coach you'd never heard of before the search committe mentioned him.

7. Wait a few years and repeat. If you're lucky you stumble into Tubby Smith at step 5.

[Golden Elephant]

Sadly this thread has degenerated into dump on Maturi, but responding to the OP, there will usually be better openings than Minnesota, and to try to time a firing based on those openings would seem extremely difficult, and mostly counterproductive. There are 66 BCS programs. Where do you think the Minnesota job would rank among those 66 in terms of the desirability of the job? I'd put it at around 40-45th, maybe, at the very highest. Even if you say as high as 40, with the churn of college coaching, there's usually going to be a couple to a half-dozen or more jobs that are open that are more desirable than MN.

[oak_street1981]

Sadly this thread has degenerated into dump on Maturi, but responding to the OP, there will usually be better openings than Minnesota, and to try to time a firing based on those openings would seem extremely difficult, and mostly counterproductive. There are 66 BCS programs. Where do you think the Minnesota job would rank among those 66 in terms of the desirability of the job? I'd put it at around 40-45th, maybe, at the very highest. Even if you say as high as 40, with the churn of college coaching, there's usually going to be a couple to a half-dozen or more jobs that are open that are more desirable than MN.

deserves way more heat than he is getting. He will be retired and sent out to pasture very soon.

[nemosgold]

I'd take Les Miles in a heartbeat.

[AhliBobwa]

Sadly this thread has degenerated into dump on Maturi, but responding to the OP, there will usually be better openings than Minnesota, and to try to time a firing based on those openings would seem extremely difficult, and mostly counterproductive. There are 66 BCS programs. Where do you think the Minnesota job would rank among those 66 in terms of the desirability of the job? I'd put it at around 40-45th, maybe, at the very highest. Even if you say as high as 40, with the churn of college coaching, there's usually going to be a couple to a half-dozen or more jobs that are open that are more desirable than MN.

In the past I might agree. However, the effect of TCF Bank stadium cannot be underestimated. There are only a small handful of facilities in the entire country that compare favorably with a TCF Bank stadium that is out of this world. Add to that an incredible metro area and there are not that many jobs ahead of Minnesota. Let's say every coach in the Big Ten resigned tomorrow except those for Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State. Iowa might jump to the top of that list because of recent success and they are currently readymade both sides of the ball. However, for long term recruiting purposes the combination of TCF stadium and the Big Ten's best metro area in Minneapolis is a potent force. Kinnick is fine, but it is the only one of the remaining stadiums/metro areas that even compares. Madison is nice, but that stadium looks like an erector set. Everywhere else suffers from deficiencies in location or a lackluster stadium.

I'm saying that there are no more than 20-25 major college jobs better than Minnesota when you look at the long term potential.

[gopherbadgerman]

Umm....Minnesota is a better job than Colorado. WAY more upside, better facilities, etc.

I think they are pretty even. Its hard to say that the MN job is much better than many jobs at this point...Indiana probably, besides that, it has got to be the worst in the B10

[gopherbadgerman]

I'm saying that there are no more than 20-25 major college jobs better than Minnesota when you look at the long term potential.

There is no way I can believe this. There are at least 7 B10 jobs better than MN, 6 Big 12 Jobs, 7 SEC Jobs, 4 ACC, 5 Big East, + Notre Dame better than MN, that does not include Pac 10 jobs and some others that are probably even with us. Although the stadium is a real plus, public support and admin support plays a big role, as does recruiting base and history, all of which the U of M is lacking in.

[GoAUpher]

In the past I might agree. However, the effect of TCF Bank stadium cannot be underestimated. There are only a small handful of facilities in the entire country that compare favorably with a TCF Bank stadium that is out of this world. Add to that an incredible metro area and there are not that many jobs ahead of Minnesota. Let's say every coach in the Big Ten resigned tomorrow except those for Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State. Iowa might jump to the top of that list because of recent success and they are currently readymade both sides of the ball. However, for long term recruiting purposes the combination of TCF stadium and the Big Ten's best metro area in Minneapolis is a potent force. Kinnick is fine, but it is the only one of the remaining stadiums/metro areas that even compares. Madison is nice, but that stadium looks like an erector set. Everywhere else suffers from deficiencies in location or a lackluster stadium.

I'm saying that there are no more than 20-25 major college jobs better than Minnesota when you look at the long term potential.

Erector set or no, the atmosphere makes CR an easier sell to recruits. Its easy enough to overcome "erector set" with good play on the field or great atmosphere inside the stadium (which is typically tied to sustained good play on the field).

I think MN would be above Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, and Northwestern for sure on the desirable jobs list (if you look at the B10). I'd hesitate to say we go above MSU, Wisky, or Iowa just based on our 40+ years in the wilderness. However, different coaching candidates might disagree depending on what they're looking for. In any case, I don't think we trail those 3 significantly. OSU, PSU, Mich remain in their own class and we're not near that.

[MadtownGopher]

I'd be interested in Richt, but Les Miles makes Denny Green's clock management look genius.

Les Miles has won a national championship, how would you not want him as head coach of the Gophers. No way either of those guys even considers Minnesota. Either one would be on the same level as a Tubby type hire.

[gopherbadgerman]

Erector set or no, the atmosphere makes CR an easier sell to recruits. Its easy enough to overcome "erector set" with good play on the field or great atmosphere inside the stadium (which is typically tied to sustained good play on the field).

I think MN would be above Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, and Northwestern for sure on the desirable jobs list (if you look at the B10). I'd hesitate to say we go above MSU, Wisky, or Iowa just based on our 40+ years in the wilderness. However, different coaching candidates might disagree depending on what they're looking for. In any case, I don't think we trail those 3 significantly. OSU, PSU, Mich remain in their own class and we're not near that.

I will agree on Indiana, and will give you NW, but honestly you think that U of M is better than Purdue and Illinois?

[GoGoldenGophers]

First time poster, long time follower. This is just my opinion of where the U would rank, but I just ranked each team if I thought they were definitely a better program or if they are equal or worse, you may disagree with my selections, but I tried to be unbiased. The programs I listed as equal or worse, are all programs where I believe a coach would at least consider the U over these other programs or are on at least arguably a better program based on tradition/facilities and all that jazz. Thoughts are appreciated. By my count I have 29 programs that I would consider significantly better than the U job, the rest you could at least make an argument for the U over that job.


Big Ten: Better

Ohio State Buckeyes
Wisconsin Badgers
Penn State Nittany Lions
Michigan Wolverines
Iowa Hawkeyes

Big Ten: Equal or Worse

Indiana Hoosiers
Purdue Boilermakers
Northwestern Wildcats
Illinois Fighting Illini
Michigan State Spartans

SEC: Better

South Carolina Gamecocks
Georgia Bulldogs
Florida Gators
Tennessee Volunteers
Ole Miss Rebels
Arkansas Razorbacks
Alabama Crimson Tide
Auburn Tigers
Louisiana State Tigers

SEC: Equal or Worse

Kentucky Wildcats
Vanderbilt Commodores
Mississippi State Bulldogs

Big 12: Better

Oklahoma Sooners
Texas Longhorns
Oklahoma State Cowboys
Nebraska Cornhuskers

Big 12: Equal or Worse

Texas A&M Aggies
Texas Tech Red Raiders
Kansas Jayhawks
Colorado Buffaloes
Baylor Bears
Kansas State Wildcats
Missouri Tigers
Iowa State Cyclones

ACC: Better

Boston College Eagles
Clemson Tigers
Florida State Seminoles
Virginia Tech Hokies
Miami Hurricanes

ACC: Equal or Worse

Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets
North Carolina State Wolfpack
Wake Forest Demon Deacons
Maryland Terrapins
North Carolina Tar Heels
Virginia Cavaliers
Duke Blue Devils

Pac 10: Better

Oregon Ducks
California Golden Bears
UCLA Bruins
Southern California Trojans


Pac 10: Equal or Worse

Oregon State Beavers
Arizona State Sun Devils
Arizona Wildcats
Stanford Cardinals
Washington Huskies
Washington State Cougars

Big East: Better

West Virginia Mountaineers
Pittsburgh Panthers

Big East: Equal or Worse

Syracuse Orange
Louisville Cardinals
South Florida Bulls
Connecticut Huskies
Cincinnati Bearcats
Rutgers Scarlet Knights

[GoAUpher]

Les Miles has won a national championship, how would you not want him as head coach of the Gophers. No way either of those guys even considers Minnesota. Either one would be on the same level as a Tubby type hire.
+1

[Bob_Loblaw]

Les Miles has won a national championship, how would you not want him as head coach of the Gophers. No way either of those guys even considers Minnesota. Either one would be on the same level as a Tubby type hire.

Miles is a good coach so I wouldn't be upset with his hiring, but I think there are certainly some question marks with Miles. Since he has had to play his own players at LSU (not Saban's), they went from one of the best teams in the country to 8-5 and 9-4. Additionally, his coaching has directly costed LSU 1 game (Mississippi) and it was god awful against Penn St.

I'm not saying he isn't a good coach, I would just prefer Richt.

[GopherGod]

First time poster, long time follower. This is just my opinion of where the U would rank, but I just ranked each team if I thought they were definitely a better program or if they are equal or worse, you may disagree with my selections, but I tried to be unbiased. The programs I listed as equal or worse, are all programs where I believe a coach would at least consider the U over these other programs or are on at least arguably a better program based on tradition/facilities and all that jazz. Thoughts are appreciated. By my count I have 29 programs that I would consider significantly better than the U job, the rest you could at least make an argument for the U over that job.


Big Ten: Better

Ohio State Buckeyes
Wisconsin Badgers
Penn State Nittany Lions
Michigan Wolverines
Iowa Hawkeyes

Big Ten: Equal or Worse

Indiana Hoosiers
Purdue Boilermakers
Northwestern Wildcats
Illinois Fighting Illini
Michigan State Spartans

SEC: Better

South Carolina Gamecocks
Georgia Bulldogs
Florida Gators
Tennessee Volunteers
Ole Miss Rebels
Arkansas Razorbacks
Alabama Crimson Tide
Auburn Tigers
Louisiana State Tigers

SEC: Equal or Worse

Kentucky Wildcats
Vanderbilt Commodores
Mississippi State Bulldogs

Big 12: Better

Oklahoma Sooners
Texas Longhorns
Oklahoma State Cowboys
Nebraska Cornhuskers

Big 12: Equal or Worse

Texas A&M Aggies
Texas Tech Red Raiders
Kansas Jayhawks
Colorado Buffaloes
Baylor Bears
Kansas State Wildcats
Missouri Tigers
Iowa State Cyclones

ACC: Better

Boston College Eagles
Clemson Tigers
Florida State Seminoles
Virginia Tech Hokies
Miami Hurricanes

ACC: Equal or Worse

Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets
North Carolina State Wolfpack
Wake Forest Demon Deacons
Maryland Terrapins
North Carolina Tar Heels
Virginia Cavaliers
Duke Blue Devils

Pac 10: Better

Oregon Ducks
California Golden Bears
UCLA Bruins
Southern California Trojans


Pac 10: Equal or Worse

Oregon State Beavers
Arizona State Sun Devils
Arizona Wildcats
Stanford Cardinals
Washington Huskies
Washington State Cougars

Big East: Better

West Virginia Mountaineers
Pittsburgh Panthers

Big East: Equal or Worse

Syracuse Orange
Louisville Cardinals
South Florida Bulls
Connecticut Huskies
Cincinnati Bearcats
Rutgers Scarlet Knights


A pretty good list and agree with most of it but I would say that Texas A&M is definitely a better job, tons of money, alumni support, strong recruiting ground, and very good facilities.

[Gopherube]

Minnesota is a less than attractive place to be a HC in college football.
Basketball is different. Both Dutcher and Clem proved that you can win and win big at MN.
40+ of very poor football does not go unnoticed by big time college fb coaches. Last one to let us know that was Bob Stoops.
The U needs somone like Brew, who has never been a HC at a major university, that has a passion for what he is doing, an eternal optimist, an ego and wants to prove to "the world" that he can do it.
I think we're dreaming if we think we can get the Richts, Miles', Petersons, Pattersons, and Tubbervilles' of the world to come here. They've got enough money in the bank that they can sit out a year and still come up with a program that will be more appealing.
(Forget about Dungy no matter how much $$ you throw at him.. In his book, "Quiet Strength", he throws MN under the bus about 4 times with his shots about how cold it is "up here" in MN. His wife Lauren absolutely hated the weather and couldn't wait, after 4 years, to get the heck out of here.)

[howeda7]

In the past I might agree. However, the effect of TCF Bank stadium cannot be underestimated. There are only a small handful of facilities in the entire country that compare favorably with a TCF Bank stadium that is out of this world. Add to that an incredible metro area and there are not that many jobs ahead of Minnesota. Let's say every coach in the Big Ten resigned tomorrow except those for Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State. Iowa might jump to the top of that list because of recent success and they are currently readymade both sides of the ball. However, for long term recruiting purposes the combination of TCF stadium and the Big Ten's best metro area in Minneapolis is a potent force. Kinnick is fine, but it is the only one of the remaining stadiums/metro areas that even compares. Madison is nice, but that stadium looks like an erector set. Everywhere else suffers from deficiencies in location or a lackluster stadium.

I'm saying that there are no more than 20-25 major college jobs better than Minnesota when you look at the long term potential.

Wow. Can you over-estimate a stadium any more? It's brand new. That's great. That's the only thing about it that is unique. It's 50,000 seats. That alone tells you all you need to know about whether the program is anywhere near a top 25 job. The idea is laughable. We're better then Wisconsin now just because our stadium is more modern? As much as I'd love that to be the case, give me a break. In the Big 10 alone we are only definatively ahead of Indiana and Northwestern. On a good day, we are even with Purdue and MSU. That's it. If we're lucky we're a top 50 job MAYBE.

The basketball job is a top 25-30 job nationally. That made it possible to get somone like Tubby. The football job? Not close. Could it get there some day? Sure. But the idea that TCF Bank Stadium suddenly vaulted in 40 spots is ridiculous.

[howeda7]

First time poster, long time follower. This is just my opinion of where the U would rank, but I just ranked each team if I thought they were definitely a better program or if they are equal or worse, you may disagree with my selections, but I tried to be unbiased. The programs I listed as equal or worse, are all programs where I believe a coach would at least consider the U over these other programs or are on at least arguably a better program based on tradition/facilities and all that jazz. Thoughts are appreciated. By my count I have 29 programs that I would consider significantly better than the U job, the rest you could at least make an argument for the U over that job.


Big Ten: Better

Ohio State Buckeyes
Wisconsin Badgers
Penn State Nittany Lions
Michigan Wolverines
Iowa Hawkeyes

Big Ten: Equal or Worse

Indiana Hoosiers
Purdue Boilermakers
Northwestern Wildcats
Illinois Fighting Illini
Michigan State Spartans

SEC: Better

South Carolina Gamecocks
Georgia Bulldogs
Florida Gators
Tennessee Volunteers
Ole Miss Rebels
Arkansas Razorbacks
Alabama Crimson Tide
Auburn Tigers
Louisiana State Tigers

SEC: Equal or Worse

Kentucky Wildcats
Vanderbilt Commodores
Mississippi State Bulldogs

Big 12: Better

Oklahoma Sooners
Texas Longhorns
Oklahoma State Cowboys
Nebraska Cornhuskers

Big 12: Equal or Worse

Texas A&M Aggies
Texas Tech Red Raiders
Kansas Jayhawks
Colorado Buffaloes
Baylor Bears
Kansas State Wildcats
Missouri Tigers
Iowa State Cyclones

ACC: Better

Boston College Eagles
Clemson Tigers
Florida State Seminoles
Virginia Tech Hokies
Miami Hurricanes

ACC: Equal or Worse

Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets
North Carolina State Wolfpack
Wake Forest Demon Deacons
Maryland Terrapins
North Carolina Tar Heels
Virginia Cavaliers
Duke Blue Devils

Pac 10: Better

Oregon Ducks
California Golden Bears
UCLA Bruins
Southern California Trojans


Pac 10: Equal or Worse

Oregon State Beavers
Arizona State Sun Devils
Arizona Wildcats
Stanford Cardinals
Washington Huskies
Washington State Cougars

Big East: Better

West Virginia Mountaineers
Pittsburgh Panthers

Big East: Equal or Worse

Syracuse Orange
Louisville Cardinals
South Florida Bulls
Connecticut Huskies
Cincinnati Bearcats
Rutgers Scarlet Knights

This list is reasonable, especially those that are better, but there are several on your 'Equal or Worse list' that you have a hard time convincing me are not significantly better. Among them:

Illinois-Certainly an up and down program, but they've been to two BCS Bowls this decade and when good fill a stadium far bigger then ours.

Georgia Tech: Multiple BCS games this decade IIRC. A national championship in the last 20 years. A stong loyal fan base in the teeth of Bulldog country.

Washington: Multiple Rose Bowls the last two decades. A strong fan base. The new coach will lead them back.

There are others, but these are the 3 that stick out the most. You listed 29 that were better. There's at least another 10. Minnesota is somewhere between 40-60 considering you didn't consider any non-BCS jobs. (TCU, etc.)

[AhliBobwa]

Wow. Can you over-estimate a stadium any more? It's brand new. That's great. That's the only thing about it that is unique. It's 50,000 seats. That alone tells you all you need to know about whether the program is anywhere near a top 25 job. The idea is laughable. We're better then Wisconsin now just because our stadium is more modern? As much as I'd love that to be the case, give me a break. In the Big 10 alone we are only definatively ahead of Indiana and Northwestern. On a good day, we are even with Purdue and MSU. That's it. If we're lucky we're a top 50 job MAYBE.

The basketball job is a top 25-30 job nationally. That made it possible to get somone like Tubby. The football job? Not close. Could it get there some day? Sure. But the idea that TCF Bank Stadium suddenly vaulted in 40 spots is ridiculous. :pig::pig::pig:

You really needed to read what I wrote more carefully before you responded.

One thing at a time. I'm not saying that Minnesota is demonstrably better than all but 25 jobs in the country. What I am saying is that after the top 25 jobs in the country Minnesota has as good and more often than not better potential to create sustained success as any other program. Remember in my initial post I stipulated that every Big Ten coach was gone tomorrow and you were to build a program at a school for the long haul.

Therefore, the issue isn't arguing that Minnesota is better than Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Florida, Bama, USC, Oklahoma, etc. What I am contending is that after that upper tier, Minnesota has as much potential and in many cases more to build sustained success in the future as Iowa, Wisconsin, Mizzou, Arkansas, Georgia Tech, Michigan State, or any other 2nd tier non-elite schools in BCS conferences.

First of all TCF Bank stadium IS special. Every single non-Gopher fan I know who has seen it agrees. The stadium has a beautiful design with an incredible view of downtown, the 2nd largest jumbotron in college football, an intimate feel where even the furthest away seats feel close and provide a good look at the action, the largest (and one of the most beautiful) home locker rooms in college football, and the room to expand to 85,000 seats as the program builds.

Secondly, the school is huge which means there is an enormous base for alumni support. . Minnesota needs to go to 2 New Year's Days bowls in a row (winning one) or attend one Rose Bowl to really start to maximize this support.

In addition, Minneapolis is an incredible city filled with lots of useful stuff to lure recruits. It is the best metropolitan area of any school in the Big Ten

I'm sick and tired of people with no sense of history constantly asserting, based on the last 15 or 20 years of evidence that Wisconsin or Iowa is more conducive to success than Minnesota. Historically, Minnesota has been much more of a powerhouse than either of those programs. Neither Iowa nor Wisconsin can dream about 6 National Titles and 18 Big Ten Championships.

Remember, the only difference between the very recent history and not quite as recent history is that middle aged/old men don't know (or care to learn about) anything they can't personally remember.

CR and Kinnick have enjoyed more recent success but that was before we had a facility that puts theirs to shame. And for all of football history before that the Gophers were annihilating both the Hawkeyes and Badgers on a regular basis in Brick House. TCF IS a demonstrably better facility than Iowa or Wisconsin possesses. All that's missing is a couple big years to consistently fill the seats and really tap the enormous alumni base

Show me the non-top 25 or 30 program that has the combination of facilities, alumni base, metropolitan area, and tradition that exceeds that of the Minnesota Golden Gophers. While some are undoubtably similar, you will not find one with any superior tools at its disposal than Minnesota has.

Is it possible that Minnesota won't climb past the other mid tier schools I mentioned? Of course that is possible. But Minnesota rates extremely well against all other schools when you add up the ingredients of what is necessary to build a consistent winner at a place other than Ohio State or USC.
:clap:

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

In addition, Minneapolis is an incredible city filled with lots of useful stuff to lure recruits. It is the best metropolitan area of any school in the Big Ten



I disagree, Chicago is the best metro area in the Big Ten.

But other than that, you make good points.

[MRJ]

One aspect to Brew being on the hot seat that no one is addressing is where we'll be in the pecking order of openings if we are looking for a new coach. There could be better openings that the Notre Dame, Texas Tech, Cincinnati, and Kansas jobs this year. There's a good chance Michigan and Colorado could be looking next year and this opening is much less attractive than those two. I'm all about taking a hard look at keeping Coach Brewster next year, but who's better that will come here? Would Tuberville turn Colorado down for us?

I'm not sure whether this means we're lucky to have Brewster or simply stuck with him for the duration. :confused::confused::confused:

[The 12th Man]

Miles is a good coach so I wouldn't be upset with his hiring, but I think there are certainly some question marks with Miles. Since he has had to play his own players at LSU (not Saban's), they went from one of the best teams in the country to 8-5 and 9-4. Additionally, his coaching has directly costed LSU 1 game (Mississippi) and it was god awful against Penn St.

I'm not saying he isn't a good coach, I would just prefer Richt.


You're right. I wouldn't want any part of a guy who went 9-4 in the SEC. Terrible.

[howeda7]

:pig::pig::pig:

You really needed to read what I wrote more carefully before you responded.

One thing at a time. I'm not saying that Minnesota is demonstrably better than all but 25 jobs in the country. What I am saying is that after the top 25 jobs in the country Minnesota has as good and more often than not better potential to create sustained success as any other program. Remember in my initial post I stipulated that every Big Ten coach was gone tomorrow and you were to build a program at a school for the long haul.

Therefore, the issue isn't arguing that Minnesota is better than Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Florida, Bama, USC, Oklahoma, etc. What I am contending is that after that upper tier, Minnesota has as much potential and in many cases more to build sustained success in the future as Iowa, Wisconsin, Mizzou, Arkansas, Georgia Tech, Michigan State, or any other 2nd tier non-elite schools in BCS conferences.

First of all TCF Bank stadium IS special. Every single non-Gopher fan I know who has seen it agrees. The stadium has a beautiful design with an incredible view of downtown, the 2nd largest jumbotron in college football, an intimate feel where even the furthest away seats feel close and provide a good look at the action, the largest (and one of the most beautiful) home locker rooms in college football, and the room to expand to 85,000 seats as the program builds.

Secondly, the school is huge which means there is an enormous base for alumni support. . Minnesota needs to go to 2 New Year's Days bowls in a row (winning one) or attend one Rose Bowl to really start to maximize this support.

In addition, Minneapolis is an incredible city filled with lots of useful stuff to lure recruits. It is the best metropolitan area of any school in the Big Ten

I'm sick and tired of people with no sense of history constantly asserting, based on the last 15 or 20 years of evidence that Wisconsin or Iowa is more conducive to success than Minnesota. Historically, Minnesota has been much more of a powerhouse than either of those programs. Neither Iowa nor Wisconsin can dream about 6 National Titles and 18 Big Ten Championships.

Remember, the only difference between the very recent history and not quite as recent history is that middle aged/old men don't know (or care to learn about) anything they can't personally remember.

CR and Kinnick have enjoyed more recent success but that was before we had a facility that puts theirs to shame. And for all of football history before that the Gophers were annihilating both the Hawkeyes and Badgers on a regular basis in Brick House. TCF IS a demonstrably better facility than Iowa or Wisconsin possesses. All that's missing is a couple big years to consistently fill the seats and really tap the enormous alumni base

Show me the non-top 25 or 30 program that has the combination of facilities, alumni base, metropolitan area, and tradition that exceeds that of the Minnesota Golden Gophers. While some are undoubtably similar, you will not find one with any superior tools at its disposal than Minnesota has.

Is it possible that Minnesota won't climb past the other mid tier schools I mentioned? Of course that is possible. But Minnesota rates extremely well against all other schools when you add up the ingredients of what is necessary to build a consistent winner at a place other than Ohio State or USC.
:clap:

See the list above. There's at least 40 schools that are clearly better then Minnesota right now. There's another 10-20 with whom we'd be in a flat-footed tie in mediocrity. You seem to be asserting that 'in a perfect world' there's only 25 schools that we could never surpass. I suppose that might be true. But to say that any reasonable coach wouldn't choose the job at Iowa, Wisconsin, VA Tech, LSU, Arkansas, Oklahoma State, etc. because the Minnesota job 'might' have as much upside in 10 years is ridiculous. Not only is it possible that Minnesota won't climb past many/most of these schools, it's downright unlikely that they will.

That doesn't mean we quit trying. But those are all better jobs, TCF or no TCF. And 6 Nationional Titles and 18 Big 10 Titles is great and all, but when none of them occured in the last 40 years it doesn't mean much. Army and Navy were great football powers 40 years ago. Do you think they will return to that level any time soon? Yes, Minnesota has a huge alumni base. That should be a huge asset. But the current reality is that they had huge swaths of empty seats in thier brand new stadium at several of thier home games. They couldn't get enough of those millions of alumni to bother to show up, even with the shine not off the stadium. Yes, MSP has some recruiting advatanges over most schools. It's offset by what so many hear falsly bemoan as the Gophers downfall. Gopher football is the #5 or #6 game in town, not #1. No matter what they do, they'll never pass the Vikings or the Twins for that crown.

The Minnesota basketball job IS one of the top 25-30 jobs in the nation. It has the same advantages/disadvantages except that instead of of a shiny new arena they have a 'classic' beloved arena that provides a big home court advtange. But, despite setbacks, they have managed to compete at a very high level in the last 20 years. Also, thanks to needing far fewer recruits, the simple advantage of being the only school in the state is a far greater advtange. Simply by keeping the top Minnesota kids in town, (assuming they actually find thier way to the court) means you can build a very strong program. They also manage to sell out a large share of games and generally finish in the top 25 in average attendance nationally. The football team has never done so, IIRC and physically cannot now, given the size of TCF compared to most big-time programs.

[AhliBobwa]

See the list above. There's at least 40 schools that are clearly better then Minnesota right now. There's another 10-20 with whom we'd be in a flat-footed tie in mediocrity. You seem to be asserting that 'in a perfect world' there's only 25 schools that we could never surpass. I suppose that might be true. But to say that any reasonable coach wouldn't choose the job at Iowa, Wisconsin, VA Tech, LSU, Arkansas, Oklahoma State, etc. because the Minnesota job 'might' have as much upside in 10 years is ridiculous. Not only is it possible that Minnesota won't climb past many/most of these schools, it's downright unlikely that they will.

That doesn't mean we quit trying. But those are all better jobs, TCF or no TCF. And 6 Nationional Titles and 18 Big 10 Titles is great and all, but when none of them occured in the last 40 years it doesn't mean much. Army and Navy were great football powers 40 years ago. Do you think they will return to that level any time soon? Yes, Minnesota has a huge alumni base. That should be a huge asset. But the current reality is that they had huge swaths of empty seats in thier brand new stadium at several of thier home games. They couldn't get enough of those millions of alumni to bother to show up, even with the shine not off the stadium. Yes, MSP has some recruiting advatanges over most schools. It's offset by what so many hear falsly bemoan as the Gophers downfall. Gopher football is the #5 or #6 game in town, not #1. No matter what they do, they'll never pass the Vikings or the Twins for that crown.

The Minnesota basketball job IS one of the top 25-30 jobs in the nation. It has the same advantages/disadvantages except that instead of of a shiny new arena they have a 'classic' beloved arena that provides a big home court advtange. But, despite setbacks, they have managed to compete at a very high level in the last 20 years. Also, thanks to needing far fewer recruits, the simple advantage of being the only school in the state is a far greater advtange. Simply by keeping the top Minnesota kids in town, (assuming they actually find thier way to the court) means you can build a very strong program. They also manage to sell out a large share of games and generally finish in the top 25 in average attendance nationally. The football team has never done so, IIRC and physically cannot now, given the size of TCF compared to most big-time programs.

You aren't even paying attention to what I wrote. There are absolutely not 40 schools with a demonstrable advantage over Minnesota in terms of building a program for the long haul. Again, Wisconsin was terrible before Alvarez. That wasn't that long ago. The point (once again for the slow class) is that there are certain factors that put together make up a programs true potential. Minnesota's elite facilities, huge alumni base, great metro area, all add up to a program with the edifice needed to build a program. For a detailed description of this go back and actually READ MY LAST POST.

And while I personally agree the Gopher basketball job is a great gig you seem to very quickly have forgotten NCAA sanctions and the Monson years. When Tubby Smith took the job at Minnesota many analysts wondered if he could take a program at the bottom of the Big Ten and turn it around. Back then 'experts' absolutely did not consider Minnesota an elite basketball job.

Howeda, you are the kind of poster who throws out knee jerks reactions and revisionist history instead of actually taking the time to parse out what someone else is saying. I don't go in for personal attacks so I'm not going to be nasty, but I am done trying to force people to use some analytical ability when considering the statements of others

[buddylee853]

You aren't even paying attention to what I wrote. There are absolutely not 40 schools with a demonstrable advantage over Minnesota in terms of building a program for the long haul. Again, Wisconsin was terrible before Alvarez. That wasn't that long ago. The point (once again for the slow class) is that there are certain factors that put together make up a programs true potential. Minnesota's elite facilities, huge alumni base, great metro area, all add up to a program with the edifice needed to build a program. For a detailed description of this go back and actually READ MY LAST POST.

And while I personally agree the Gopher basketball job is a great gig you seem to very quickly have forgotten NCAA sanctions and the Monson years. When Tubby Smith took the job at Minnesota many analysts wondered if he could take a program at the bottom of the Big Ten and turn it around. Back then 'experts' absolutely did not consider Minnesota an elite basketball job.

Howeda, you are the kind of poster who throws out knee jerks reactions and revisionist history instead of actually taking the time to parse out what someone else is saying. I don't go in for personal attacks so I'm not going to be nasty, but I am done trying to force willfully ignorant people like yourself to use some analytical ability when considering the statements of others

THIS ^^^

[ruralgopher]

I think outside of the elite historical programs it all comes down to getting the right coach. If a coach had a historically great season this program would be viewed as favorably as most of the 'better' schools listed above, assuming that the U paid accordingly. Suddenly every Minnesotan would be fans who 'had been there through the tough years', the media would jump on the bandwagon like they do everytime the vikes or twins have a good year and this would be a 'premier job with a football history that rivals the most storied programs'.

[howeda7]

You aren't even paying attention to what I wrote. There are absolutely not 40 schools with a demonstrable advantage over Minnesota in terms of building a program for the long haul. Again, Wisconsin was terrible before Alvarez. That wasn't that long ago. The point (once again for the slow class) is that there are certain factors that put together make up a programs true potential. Minnesota's elite facilities, huge alumni base, great metro area, all add up to a program with the edifice needed to build a program. For a detailed description of this go back and actually READ MY LAST POST.

And while I personally agree the Gopher basketball job is a great gig you seem to very quickly have forgotten NCAA sanctions and the Monson years. When Tubby Smith took the job at Minnesota many analysts wondered if he could take a program at the bottom of the Big Ten and turn it around. Back then 'experts' absolutely did not consider Minnesota an elite basketball job.

Howeda, you are the kind of poster who throws out knee jerks reactions and revisionist history instead of actually taking the time to parse out what someone else is saying. I don't go in for personal attacks so I'm not going to be nasty, but I am done trying to force willfully ignorant people like yourself to use some analytical ability when considering the statements of others

Believe me, I read your post. I simply think you're vastly over-rating the advantages the Gopher football progam has. It has nothing to do with knee-jerk reactions or revisionist history. I won't stoop to calling you ignorant as you did me, but the shine on TCF is definately blinding you to reality a bit.

'Elite facilities'. Yes, TCF if great. But it's 50,000 seats for a reason and they still had significant no-shows in year 1. It will never generate the revenue that 75,000 seats in Camp Randall or Kinnick will no matter how much newer it is.

'Huge Alumni base.' The size of the alumni base doesn't mean anything if they wont' show up. There's no excuse for huge swaths of empty seats in the first year of a new stadium like we saw this year.

'Great Metro Area.' Again, I concede there are advantages to being in a major metro area. There are also disadvantages. It ends up something of a wash.

Minnesota is simply not as good a job as the Wisconsin's, Iowa's, and Oklahoma State's of the world (for example). Thier 'demonstrable advantages' over Minnesota vary, but generally are that they have been much more successful in the last 10-20 years, have better fan support and make more money. Winning, money and fan support matter more then how new your stadium is or how big a city you play in.

Can Minnesota catch and pass these programs? Sure, in theory. But currently, it is not close to doing so, and it doesn't have the inherent long-term advantages you seem to think. Minnesota is not a top 40 job in college football. It's just that simple.

To use your example, if all the BCS college football coaches were fired tomorrow and could choose any job they wanted, we wouldn't be among the first 40 picked. The basketball job would be. And while it was at its lowest point in decades when Tubby came along, it would have been in the top 40 even then. The scandals were damaging, but didn't change the fact that they have a strong fan base, good venue and exclusive access to a recruiting base productive enough to build a winner, in addition to the big city advantages you pointed out.

[AhliBobwa]

Using the word ignorant was too far. I apologize.

[AhliBobwa]

I think outside of the elite historical programs it all comes down to getting the right coach. If a coach had a historically great season this program would be viewed as favorably as most of the 'better' schools listed above, assuming that the U paid accordingly. Suddenly every Minnesotan would be fans who 'had been there through the tough years', the media would jump on the bandwagon like they do everytime the vikes or twins have a good year and this would be a 'premier job with a football history that rivals the most storied programs'.

+1 Success creates crowds. For the non-Michigans of the world that is the golden rule

[ruralgopher]

Even Michigan is subject to attendence issues when they aren't winning... From mvictors ater the tOSU game this year

"The idiots who sold all those tickets to the mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging, inbred, sheep-f**ing, sweaty-yellow-t-shirt-wearing, PBR-swilling, wife-beaters from Ohio should NEVER be allowed anywhere near Michigan Stadium again. That was a freaking home game for tOSU."

[oak_street1981]

Minnesota is simply not as good a job as the Wisconsin's, Iowa's, and Oklahoma State's of the world (for example). Thier 'demonstrable advantages' over Minnesota vary, but generally are that they have been much more successful in the last 10-20 years, have better fan support and make more money. Winning, money and fan support matter more then how new your stadium is or how big a city you play in.

than Minnesota over the last 10-20 years.

They have had a few good and great players, and now that T. Boone Pickens has given them hundreds of millions, they are definitely on the upswing.

[mnboiler]

Even Michigan is subject to attendence issues when they aren't winning... From mvictors ater the tOSU game this year

"The idiots who sold all those tickets to the mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging, inbred, sheep-f**ing, sweaty-yellow-t-shirt-wearing, PBR-swilling, wife-beaters from Ohio should NEVER be allowed anywhere near Michigan Stadium again. That was a freaking home game for tOSU."

Michigan also has the advantage of being a "plimage" road trip. Its a road trip that every college football fan should go on. Much like Notre Dame, Bama, SC, and Ohio State. Thats something Minnesota doesn't have. And possibly lost forever when they tore down Memorial Stadium.

[Moses87]

How a good AD fires/hires a coach:

1. Keep list of candidates at all times

2. Make decision to fire coach

3. Open back channels with candidates

4. Fire the coach

5. Open formal communications

6. Make hire.

How Maturi does it:

1. Decide to fire coach.

2. Dither for 6 to 9 months to make absolutely sure you don't want to change your mind. If news of #1 leaks out, give coach half-hearted endorsement.

3. Fire Coach during long-winded non-sensical press conference

4. Begin to think about replacements

5. Form committee to suggest replacements since you don't really have any in mind

6. Choose an NFL TE coach you'd never heard of before the search committe mentioned him.

7. Wait a few years and repeat. If you're lucky you stumble into Tubby Smith at step 5.

:clap:

Funniest thing I've read on the Gopher hole in years! LMFAO!!!! Sad but true!