Rotation and minutes last night

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ilovethebarn

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I was not at the game nor did I watch on TV. Could some people elaborate on what the rotation was last night? Did Tubby start the same 5 as the last 5 or 6 games? Did he still rotate in the next 5 per the usual? Did anyone's minutes go down or up? Sorry for the all the questions I just want to get an idea of how this went.
 

I was encouraged by how Tubby ran the rotation in the second half. Played everyone, per usual in the first half. As the game settled in the starting five played a majority of the minutes with a couple of substitutions. Tubby knows he needs the guys on the floor when the game is on the line. I'm sure he will do the same as the season progresses. Overall a decent game last night. We went cold for a while, but generally played pretty well against a team that got hot from the floor. I expect Penn State to win its fair share of games in the Big Ten this year.
 

Speaking of rotation and minutes .... I know Damian was benched due to his second foul in the first half, but with such a deep squad, is this really necessary? By putting a key player on the bench, you have done the same thing as if he fouled out. Let him play! If he does foul out early, we still have plenty of guys left. By the way, he ended up with just 3 fouls, but his minutes were reduced sharply (my point being that is unnecessary).
 

MillionMoves said:
I know Damian was benched due to his second foul in the first half, but with such a deep squad, is this really necessary?
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You never let one of your most important players get 3 fouls in the first half unless there isn't a single body on the bench. That is pretty universal across college basketball.

If he does get 3 in the first half, and gets a ticky tack foul 2 minutes into the second half, you have to sit him until there are 4-5 min left in the game, and 99.9% of coaches don't want to have to do that.
 

I was encouraged by how Tubby ran the rotation in the second half.
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I wasn't so much encouraged but more surprised. Tubby proved to be very stubborn about leaving the "second line" in the game around the 15 minute mark. They had a couple of terrible possessions in a row with PSU making a nice run, and after a time out he still kept them in the game. Devoe had a nice tip in and that was the only scoring we had for a long stretch. The starters did have a nice rest and finished strong so I'll tip my hat to the coach, but I was surprised he didn't get the hook out a little sooner.
 


I thought he mixed it up a little more last night. Carter and Cobbs played with Hoffarber and Westbrook at times.

Tubby was mad and replaced the starting five after two minutes of the second half. I wish he would have kept Westbrook in at that time. He as in a zone all night. If he can keep that up they are tough to defense. Hard to keep close tabbs on two guards at the same time.
 

It's fun to wish that the hot players stayed in all the time but they have to sit sometime. They can't play the whole game or at least I prefer them to not. Battle played 40 minutes last night (at least I think he did). I don't think you can play the defense that the Gophers want to play and leave your guys in for 35-40 minutes a game. Tubby did show a lot of patience with the 2nd team in the 2nd half. Seemed like that helped because it allowed him to leave Westbrook and the other starters in for almost the final 10 minutes.
 

Yes, the second team did have a lapse in the second half, but don't forget they are the ones that lead the charge in the first half. It was nice to see the team come back when Penn State grabbed the momentum and took the lead. They looked a little lost for a while and took some bad shots, but got it corrected. It was nice to see them pushing the ball inside.
 

Ulmer

It`s no surprise to anyone that our defense sets the table and that Nolen is at the heart of it, but it sure looked like he was winded last night. With all the subbing that goes on it seems like some of the guys are fading early.
 



ulmer said:
It`s no surprise to anyone that our defense sets the table and that Nolen is at the heart of it, but it sure looked like he was winded last night. With all the subbing that goes on it seems like some of the guys are fading early.
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I noticed a lot of sucking air last night as well. It was most pronounced in Nolen, but it also looked like Westbrook, Sampson, and Johnson were struggling as well. I know Nolen has asthma issues, but you also have to wonder what a few days off does to the wind.

PSU played up, we didn't play great, but had a guy step up and carry the team to a win. In December, I am not looking for style points, just victories. Mission accomplished.
 

Holy Man said:
PSU played up, we didn't play great, but had a guy step up and carry the team to a win. In December, I am not looking for style points, just victories. Mission accomplished.
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Amen to that. A W is a W. 10 more 1 point ugly wins equals tournament time.
 

It is so easy for us bloggers to find faults and question things. What we need to realize and remember is this...College Basketball games are an exchange of runs. As a result, I do NOT care if the runs in favor of the Gophers come from the starting 5, the second 5, or from Joe $hit the ragman...as long as Tubby guides the team to the big W. And he will, more often than not.

Way to go Gophers...

Now go clobber the Pigeyes.

Go Gophers!
 

MillionMoves said:
Speaking of rotation and minutes .... I know Damian was benched due to his second foul in the first half, but with such a deep squad, is this really necessary? By putting a key player on the bench, you have done the same thing as if he fouled out. Let him play! If he does foul out early, we still have plenty of guys left. By the way, he ended up with just 3 fouls, but his minutes were reduced sharply (my point being that is unnecessary).
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I've never understood this strategy, specifically for a team with as much depth as the Gophers have. Since nobody is likely to play 30 minutes anyways, the likelihood of anyone fouling out decreases. I see no reason to bench a player for the remainder of the half just because they have 2 fouls. They could easily go the rest of the game without a foul.

The proper strategy is to play your regular rotation until a player is no longer available, at which point the additional depth can step up at the end of the game. Whether or not this is commonplace in college basketball, it is not the proper way to get maximum output from your best players.
 




ShowinGoldyLove said:
Hoffarber had 30 min last night.
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That completely misses the point. Nobody on the team averages over 25 minutes a game. There is no reason to bench DJ for the final 9 minutes of the first half because of 2 fouls. If he fouls out with 5 minutes to play, you deal with it then. Assuming bad things are going to happen (ie a player will foul out) is not the proper way to aggressively go for a win, especially in the case of a player having 2 fouls in the first half.
 

Maroon Shower said:
If he fouls out with 5 minutes to play, you deal with it then.
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Disagree.

I'd take him sitting out 5-7 minutes in the first half than gamble, have him get 3 in the first half and quick one to start the 2nd, and have him foul out with 5 minutes to play.

We need him in the game in the last 5 minutes more than any other time of the game. That's why Tubby subbed him out with 2 fouls in the first half, and why he will do it every single time until eternity, as would 97% of NCAA coaches.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
Hoffarber had 30 min last night.
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It seems to me that at this point, Hoffarber, Westbrook and Joseph are interchangable parts. I know Blake can put a game on ice if he gets hot. Obviously so can Westbrook. But, Devoe can shoot the long ball too and he has some offensive skills that put him in the same position as the other two. I'd like too see Joseph get a few more minutes at the expense of Hoffarber and Westbrook. He is the future and next year Lawrence is gone.
 

figi said:
It seems to me that at this point, Hoffarber, Westbrook and Joseph are interchangable parts. I know Blake can put a game on ice if he gets hot. Obviously so can Westbrook. But, Devoe can shoot the long ball too and he has some offensive skills that put him in the same position as the other two. I'd like too see Joseph get a few more minutes at the expense of Hoffarber and Westbrook. He is the future and next year Lawrence is gone.
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I don't know if we've been watching the same Joseph this year; but his play has been very poor.

It looks like he's forcing it 90% of the time, shooting shots that aren't even close to being in the flow of the offense.

He's shooting 33% from 3 (well behind Hoffarber, Westbrook, Nolen, Johnson, and even Carter, who are all >38%), 41% from the field (3rd worst on the team, just ahead of Bostick and Cobbs), and is tied for the most turnovers on the team with 20.

Rewarding Devoe with more minutes, given the way he's played so far this year (both statistically and in general) wouldn't be a good move. Seems Tubby agrees with how he's played him so far.
 

DJ is my favorite player but I had no problem with him being benched last night. I don't always agree with benching a player for a long time because of 2 early fouls, but DJ just really wasn't playing well last night other than the 2 big baskets he had at the end.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
Disagree.

I'd take him sitting out 5-7 minutes in the first half than gamble, have him get 3 in the first half and quick one to start the 2nd, and have him foul out with 5 minutes to play.

We need him in the game in the last 5 minutes more than any other time of the game. That's why Tubby subbed him out with 2 fouls in the first half, and why he will do it every single time until eternity, as would 97% of NCAA coaches.
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This doesn't make any sense. He was taken out for the final 9+ minutes of the first half and ended the game with 3 fouls and played 20 minutes. 2 points in the first half are worth the same amount as 2 points in the final 5 minutes. To limit a player's minutes because he might eventually be in foul trouble (yes, I'm saying that 2 fouls in the first half does not constitute foul trouble) is strategically incorrect. Removing a player from the game when it is not forced due to disqualification is essentially a self-imposed disqualification. Whether or not other coaches would do it is beside the point, I just tend to find it a poor decision. Agree to disagree.

underground629 said:
DJ is my favorite player but I had no problem with him being benched last night. I don't always agree with benching a player for a long time because of 2 early fouls, but DJ just really wasn't playing well last night other than the 2 big baskets he had at the end.
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While I agree that it wasn't one of his best games to date, I don't believe that DJ was playing so poorly that he would have been benched for the final 9 minutes of the half had he not had 2 fouls. I think that these are separate issues. I generally trust Tubby to make personnel decisions based on performance, and if I decided to bench a player based on poor play, I tend to be okay with it. I do not, however, agree with his strategy of benching a player for the rest of the half once he gets 2 fouls, which is something he has repeatedly done.
 

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