I will not complain about Tubby's offense

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UST82Gopher

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ever again after watching the Lady Gophers.

With less than 4 minutes remaining in the 1st half, our Lady Gophers have put up 6(!!!) points against Purdue. 3 of which were a "prayer" 3 pointer.

They are perfectly running the "pass it around the zone until the shot clocks runs down so that you have to force a shot" offense.

It is UGLY!! :(
 

UST82Gopher said:
ever again after watching the Lady Gophers.

With less than 4 minutes remaining in the 1st half, our Lady Gophers have put up 6(!!!) points against Purdue. 3 of which were a "prayer" 3 pointer.

They are perfectly running the "pass it around the zone until the shot clocks runs down so that you have to force a shot" offense.

It is UGLY!! :(
Click to expand...

Tubby's Gophers are averaging 81 ppg and somewhere near Top 25 nationally (in ppg).

https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf4/662538.pdf?ATCLID=204835122&SPSID=38665&SPID=3302&DB_OEM_ID=8400
 


Friend Of Tubby said:
Tubby's Gophers are averaging 81 ppg and somewhere near Top 25 nationally (in ppg).
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FOT,

Even with the Big Ten being "down" this year, I would be very surprised (and very happy!) if the Gophers surpass last year's 61.6 pts/game in Big Ten play.

Westbrook, Joseph and Bostick are the only players who can create their own shot. Westbrook has taken a step back this year and Bostick is not going to get any burn. When the going gets tough against tougher defenses (and even in a down year, all the Big Ten teams play pretty strong defense), I don't see where the offense will come from.

In our 3 losses, we averaged 59.7 points. In all three losses, we struggled mightily to score in the last 4 minutes. Take the Texas A&M game. We were 2 for 10 in the last 4 minutes including a missed layup (Nolan), 3 missed mid range jumpers (Carter, Nolan and Joseph) and a bricked 3 (Johnson).

I see us being in many close games in the conference this year. Without a go to scorer who can create his own shot (and make it!!), I am scared that we will end up 50-50 which will not be strong enough to get us into the NCAA. I hope I am wrong, but I am concerned.
 

UST82...Go to ESPN web site and look at the score of NCCent versus Duke. 65-9 at the start of the 2nd half.
 



From the Barn said:
Is it his better scoring average and shooting percentage, increased assists, or decreased turnovers that are a step back?
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FtB

Let me clarify my point a little. I was talking about players able to create their own shot, especially at crunch time. It's my observation that Westbrook has taken a step back in being able to do that this year. Not in his overall offense, which I agree has statistically improved, but specifically his ability to create a shot on his own.

I felt he was very effective using his bulk in creating shots going to the basket the last couple of years. With his slimmer body, I am not seeing that this year. He seems to get bounced in traffic more and, for whatever reason, is not getting all that many foul calls.
 

FTB

From the Barn said:
Is it his better scoring average and shooting percentage, increased assists, or decreased turnovers that are a step back?
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Good response. To be fair though Westy's free throw percentage is down this year - so far.

:)
 





UST82Gopher said:
FtB

Let me clarify my point a little. I was talking about players able to create their own shot, especially at crunch time. It's my observation that Westbrook has taken a step back in being able to do that this year. Not in his overall offense, which I agree has statistically improved, but specifically his ability to create a shot on his own.

I felt he was very effective using his bulk in creating shots going to the basket the last couple of years. With his slimmer body, I am not seeing that this year. He seems to get bounced in traffic more and, for whatever reason, is not getting all that many foul calls.
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You could just admit that you missed the last few games.
 

A few stats

to back up my perception of Westbrook's ability to create his own shot I looked at some stats.

Guys who create their own shot tend to get fouled more often than those who don't. They tend to take less threes because they more frequently attack the rim.

08-09 In 32 games, Westbrook had 114 FTA or 3.6/game. It averages to .15 per minute played

09-10 In 11 games, Westbrook had 24 FTA or 2.2/game. It averages to .10 per minute played.

To me, that is a pretty big change.

08-09 In 32 games, Westbrook had 123 3 pt FGA or 3.8 3pt FGA/game. It averages to .16 per minute played.

09-10 In 11 games, Westbrook has 43 3 pt FGA or 4.0 3pt FGA/game. It averages to .18 per game.

Not a huge difference, but still a trend.

I felt it important to correct for minutes played in that Tubby has used his bench extensively in 09-10 non conference and Westbrooks minutes are down a little (23 vs 25 last year)

This is certainly not definitive proof, but I think it at least lends some credence to my perception that Westbrook has taken a step back specifically in his ability to create his shot.
 




A better explanation: the Gophers have won only one game this season in which the opponent was forced to foul to keep it close, and Westbrook takes the vast majority of free throws in those situations. Last season Westbrook 8 free throws in a 7 point win over Bowling Green, 5 in an 8 point win against Georgia State, eight in a 10 point win against Virginia, 5 in a nine point win against SE Louisiana. The trend carried over with wins against Iowa, Wisconsin twice, and Northwestern in the Big Ten tournament.
 

If one thinks that the skill level of a D1 bb player is simply his ability to create his shot, you need to take a step back and realize that there is "just a little more" to a player's game. It's about playing the entire game, which includes that.
 

Dr.Don said:
If one thinks that the skill level of a D1 bb player is simply his ability to create his shot, you need to take a step back and realize that there is "just a little more" to a player's game. It's about playing the entire game, which includes that.
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Dr. Don,

I am NOT down on Westbrook. My whole point was that I am concerned about who can create his own shot in a crunch situation. Our roster is very thin with those types of players which I think is a big negative.

My observation is that Westbrook is doing that less (and is less effective) this year than last. I think that is a step back for the team.

I think I will give this a rest.
 

I was going to respond to the Westbrook taking a step back comment, but I can see that has already been taken care of. I'm not quite sure how you can think that. As mentioned already, the only place where I notice he has taken a step back is in is FT shooting.
 

Crunch time

Westbrook is still the guy I want taking our biggest shots. ... even with Hoff's recent shooting tear. But it would be nice to have a couple different options in crunch time.

And to get back to the original point of the thread, Big Ten women's basketball is brutal this season. It's pretty much Ohio State and everybody else. There's no way to say this nicely; in the Big 10 there are simply too many marginally talented, unathletic chubby girls who couldn't jump over a dime. The number of turnovers just watching a Big 10 women's game makes me want to turn the channel (and I usually do). If Pam gets this team to the NCAAs, she's done a marvelous job because the Gophers overall aren't very talented or athletic.
 

This is like when we thought our running attack under Mason was dominate rolling up 400 yards rushing against the directional teams.

Selection what is our points per game against opponents who have a chance of making the tourney?
 

74.8

"Selection what is our points per game against opponents who have a chance of making the tourney?"

Butler 82
Texas A&M 65
Miami-Florida 58
Morgan State 94 (prohibitive favorite to win MEAC)

74.8 vs. teams with realistic shot at NCAA.

Note: Save for a 14-0/13-1 conference record, the only way Portland's getting in NCAA is by winning WCC Tournament.
 

To me the more applicable measure would be our scoring versus Big Ten quality teams:

Butler 82
A&M 65
Miami 58

Average 68.3

They are fine when they are running the floor. The offense does not look good in the half court.
I am one who is totally impressed with Tubby but not impressed with his offense. I will acknowledge that he is working without a great post up player and that hurts but Tubby's offense is so far the least impressive offering of an otherwise great coach. It jsut too often looks stagnant- little movement.
 

Thanks BGA. I forgot about Miami. Brain fart. I'll add them to my totals.
 

bga1 said:
To me the more applicable measure would be our scoring versus Big Ten quality teams:

Butler 82
A&M 65
Miami 58

Average 68.3

They are fine when they are running the floor. The offense does not look good in the half court.
I am one who is totally impressed with Tubby but not impressed with his offense. I will acknowledge that he is working without a great post up player and that hurts but Tubby's offense is so far the least impressive offering of an otherwise great coach. It jsut too often looks stagnant- little movement.
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Defense creates offense. When Gophers play good D they open up more scoring options.

Tubby's teams at Tulsa, Georgia, and SOME (not all) at UK had excellent offenses.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Thanks BGA. I forgot about Miami. Brain fart. I'll add them to my totals.
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Clearly the Gophers threw "clunkers" versus Portland, TAMU, and Miami FL. Had they played as well as they have in more recent games, those games might have had much higher scoring totals.
 

Doesn't it worry you that they threw "clunkers" against three of the four decent teams they played? In recent games have they played well or are they just too good and deep to have a game against low-majors?

I am not a glass half empty guy but I am very worried about Gopher's ability to win against decent competition. I think we match up very well against weak teams (not a back-handed compliment, some teams don't) but worry our lack of offence means we won't do as well against good teams.
 

Winnipegopher said:
Doesn't it worry you that they threw "clunkers" against three of the four decent teams they played? In recent games have they played well or are they just too good and deep to have a game against low-majors?

I am not a glass half empty guy but I am very worried about Gopher's ability to win against decent competition. I think we match up very well against weak teams (not a back-handed compliment, some teams don't) but worry our lack of offence means we won't do as well against good teams.
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No - the Gophers are playing better now than they were then. And several of the home opponents (St Joes, SFA, Morgan St) are decent, too. Not Miami or TAMU level.

They defeated their best opponent (Butler) and scored 82 points doing so.
 

FoT,

I hope you are right but I am pessimistic. I guess that is why they play the games.
 

Did we drop down to 66.25 for an offensive average against Tournament quality teams, or is PSU considered Tournament bound?
 

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