My surprise pick for the 12th Big Ten school

[ORGopher]

As for the Big Ten adding a 12th school, this is my breakdown:

Notre Dame - as for me, the heck with them. Until they can deal with reality and admit that they are no better than any other Big Ten school I don't want them and I don't think it will happen.
Syracuse & Rutgers - Brings in the New York market more than what Penn State does already. There interest would be the money. The Big Ten Network is a driver for them to give serious consideration.
Pittsburgh - would renew the rivarly in football with Penn State
Missouri (or Miz-ur-A if you live there) - somehow they always make the list and would be a decent addition and another big rival to Illinois.
Iowa State - I hope not.
Cincinnati - Ohio State would not favor this and I am not sure there reputation is good enough to give them much consideration. Thank Bob Huggins for that.

I read some other posts about the possibility of MAC schools - not a chance. Big Ten presidents would not consider them on the same level academically.

My sleeper pick is....UConn - while football drives the Big Ten ship, certainly men's basketball is the bread and butter when it comes to continued success...(see teams in the Final Four). They compete for bowl games at the BCS level in football so they bring something to the table. The other thing is they bring men's hockey. Is it possible for the Big Ten to have another revenue-making sport/championship because UConn gives them six Big Ten teams - the minimum to sponsor the sport at the conference level. Bye WCHA?

Division A
Penn State
UConn
Indiana
Ohio State
Wisconsin
Northwestern

Division B
Minnesota
Iowa
Michigan
Michigan State
Purdue
Illinois

In football, you would play everyone in your division, plus three teams from the other divisions (maybe four). You would protect your rival from the other division and play them each year meaning cross-divisonal rivals would be:

Penn State vs. Michigan State
Minnesota vs. Wisconsin
Ohio State vs. Michigan
Purdue vs. Indiana
Illinois vs. Northwestern

Iowa and UConn I guess would start a new rivalry...sorry, the Iowa-Wisconsin game does not make the list.

[magpie]

Nope.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Nope.

that was really deep and insightful. ;)

[magpie]

Anything else I could have said may have been taken too negatively, so I tried to be civil. Truth is, it's one of the more ridiculous scenarios, and it really didn't need its own thread...

[Ron Johnson Super Fan]

The other thing is they bring men's hockey. Is it possible for the Big Ten to have another revenue-making sport/championship because UConn gives them six Big Ten teams - the minimum to sponsor the sport at the conference level. Bye WCHA?



UConn's hockey team is 3-12-2 playing in the extremely week AHA. Their only wins this year are against Royal Military College and American International. Their arena seats all of 2000 people. I don't think too many people are going to be interested in breaking up the WCHA for UConn.

[gopher56]

They will never break up the wcha, it is the elite league in college hockey and dumping on 8 of the 10 teams (soon to be 10 of 12 teams, Omaha and Bemidji State) to make a big 10 team that would only have 5 or 6 teams would be stupid.

[JoeDirt]

I didn't even realize UConn had a hockey program....thanks RJSF for the enlightenment!

[scools12]

UConn will be seriously considered.

It isn't as clear cut they won't be as magpie seems to think.

[jovs]

As for the Big Ten adding a 12th school, this is my breakdown:

Notre Dame - as for me, the heck with them. Until they can deal with reality and admit that they are no better than any other Big Ten school I don't want them and I don't think it will happen.
Syracuse & Rutgers - Brings in the New York market more than what Penn State does already. There interest would be the money. The Big Ten Network is a driver for them to give serious consideration.
Pittsburgh - would renew the rivarly in football with Penn State
Missouri (or Miz-ur-A if you live there) - somehow they always make the list and would be a decent addition and another big rival to Illinois.
Iowa State - I hope not.
Cincinnati - Ohio State would not favor this and I am not sure there reputation is good enough to give them much consideration. Thank Bob Huggins for that.

I read some other posts about the possibility of MAC schools - not a chance. Big Ten presidents would not consider them on the same level academically.

My sleeper pick is....UConn - while football drives the Big Ten ship, certainly men's basketball is the bread and butter when it comes to continued success...(see teams in the Final Four). They compete for bowl games at the BCS level in football so they bring something to the table. The other thing is they bring men's hockey. Is it possible for the Big Ten to have another revenue-making sport/championship because UConn gives them six Big Ten teams - the minimum to sponsor the sport at the conference level. Bye WCHA?

Division A
Penn State
UConn
Indiana
Ohio State
Wisconsin
Northwestern

Division B
Minnesota
Iowa
Michigan
Michigan State
Purdue
Illinois

In football, you would play everyone in your division, plus three teams from the other divisions (maybe four). You would protect your rival from the other division and play them each year meaning cross-divisonal rivals would be:

Penn State vs. Michigan State
Minnesota vs. Wisconsin
Ohio State vs. Michigan
Purdue vs. Indiana
Illinois vs. Northwestern

Iowa and UConn I guess would start a new rivalry...sorry, the Iowa-Wisconsin game does not make the list.

I like your thoughts on this. U Conn would draw more fans from the NYC area than Rutgers or Syracuse. I am not sure either of those schools are a bigger draw than Penn State is in NYC anyway. It would really add a punch to basketball in the Big Ten.

[gopher7]

The UConn scenario is interesting, but even with them there is no way there will ever be a Big Ten hockey conference. By my count there are only 8 BCS-type universities in college hockey, so taking 6 of those teams and putting them in one league would go a long way to destroying college hockey. These teams need to remain spread out through a few different conferences to keeep parity and interest spread out.

[TCF=UnitedWeStand]

I'm in Michigan right now for work and the school folks here are talking about, in addition to those mentioned above, is Boston College.

[DL65]

My first choice is Pittsburgh (academics,football tradition, location).

My second choice is Boston College. Boston College has strong academics, Northeast TV market, football is very competitive, rich tradition in hockey, and a great city to visit. Imho, BC brings a lot more to the table than Rutgers and Syracuse.

Go Gophers!!

[GoAUpher]

UConn will be seriously considered.

It isn't as clear cut they won't be as magpie seems to think.

Why will they be seriously considered? Nothing they offer is more positive than Pitt (EDIT: To clarify, while UConn's bball team is traditionally stronger, Pitt's is also good and thus I consider that a wash). They do not have a big share of the NYC market. And they are even more of a geographic anomaly then 'Cuse or Rutgers. A weak hockey program isn't enough of a reason.

[GophersInIowa]

I thought one of the "rules" when looking for an additional team for the Big Ten was that the state it's in must border a state that already has a Big Ten team. I don't thinkg Connecticut borders Pennsylvania.

[GoAUpher]

I thought one of the "rules" when looking for an additional team for the Big Ten was that the state it's in must border a state that already has a Big Ten team. I don't thinkg Connecticut borders Pennsylvania.

According to Rittenburg this isn't an official rule. Just a semi-formal guideline/traditional expectation.

[NateDawgUM]

UConn has 1 winning season in the Big East. We can all agree that the Big East is weak.

Their football field isn't even located in the same town as their University. That doesn't fit the Big Ten identity. We were toeing the line there for 27 years.

They are NOT a member of the AAU, so they're not academically compatible.

Pass.

The more I think about it, the more I think Nebraska might be a strong fit. Their only true rivalry in the Big 8 was Oklahoma, and that's already mucked up.

While they have been down in football lately, they have a higher profile than any other school that I've heard mentioned outside of Notre Dame. They bring in a large national fan base, beyond anything regional that Pitt or Mizzou would offer.

Basketball is weak, but they're strong across the board in non-revenue sports. Academically, they'd be the weakest undergraduate school, but they are a member of the AAU and do higher level research than Notre Dame.

[GoAUpher]

The more I think about it, the more I think Nebraska might be a strong fit. Their only true rivalry in the Big 8 was Oklahoma, and that's already mucked up.

While they have been down in football lately, they have a higher profile than any other school that I've heard mentioned outside of Notre Dame. They bring in a large national fan base, beyond anything regional that Pitt or Mizzou would offer.

Basketball is weak, but they're strong across the board in non-revenue sports. Academically, they'd be the weakest undergraduate school, but they are a member of the AAU and do higher level research than Notre Dame.

I agree with Nebraska being a good choice (great choice actually). But somehow they just feel "Big 12", ya know? And I wonder how inclined they'd be to move. Mizzou is a possibility because of the unequal sharing of Big 12 TV money (the more you get on TV the more money you get)...Mizzou is getting the shaft in that system. Moving to the Big Ten would give them an economic boost in addition to an academic boost. The same can't be said for Nebraska.

[NateDawgUM]

Well Tom Osborne was the head coach when they joined the Big XII, and I know that one of the main reasons he almost immediately retired was due to Nebraska getting royally shafted by Texas when the rules of the conference were drawn up.

Now that he's AD, he might want some payback.

Further, Nebraska has issues with television for non-conference games. The Big XII only has a few channels at their disposal, Texas and Oklahoma always get the ABC games, so half the time Nebraska winds up on Versus or Pay Per View. It is not popular with the fans. I think they would love access to the Big Ten Network.

[scools12]

Why will they be seriously considered? Nothing they offer is more positive than Pitt (EDIT: To clarify, while UConn's bball team is traditionally stronger, Pitt's is also good and thus I consider that a wash). They do not have a big share of the NYC market. And they are even more of a geographic anomaly then 'Cuse or Rutgers. A weak hockey program isn't enough of a reason.

My point being that to simply dismiss UConn is wrong. This has nothing to do whether I think they are a good fit or whether the school has a hockey team. I doubt whatever schools are being considered the hockey program or lack there of is a higher priority.

I just don't see a Big 12 team jumping. IMO more than likely if it happens at all it will be a team from the Big East. I am not saying UConn should be the team I just think they will be a school that is considered.

[tikited]

I dislike Nebraska very much so. I feel like I would have to hate them if they would join the Big Ten. I'm not sure I have any hate left in me with Iowa and Wisc. getting all of it. This could be a problem.

[howeda7]

Nebraska has it's positives, but it's simply not the football power it once was, and likely won't be anytime soon. It's other sports are pretty average. And it doesn't add two large media markets the way Missouri does. Missouri is still a better fit overall. If we're only thinking football, I can see Nebraska, but let's not get tunnel vision.

[NateDawgUM]

Who cares about media markets? We'd be adding Missouri, not the St. Louis Cardinals.

Missourians aren't crazy about their college sports. Who cares if they have TVs if they're on another channel?

I've also never understood this rationale for Rutgers. My entire family is from New York and nobody gives two poops about Rutgers.

[howeda7]

Who cares about media markets? We'd be adding Missouri, not the St. Louis Cardinals.

Missourians aren't crazy about their college sports. Who cares if they have TVs if they're on another channel?

I've also never understood this rationale for Rutgers. My entire family is from New York and nobody gives two poops about Rutgers.

You need a lesson in television economics. Which media markets the new school brings is probably the #1 criteria being considered. Exposure to new TV markets is the #1 reason why Penn State was added and the only reason Rutgers is even being mentioned. PSU opened up the Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and to a degree NYC television markets to the Big 10. That was huge and gave them the largest market share of any conference in America. Rutgers and Syracuse are being considered almost entirely on the theory that they would increase exposure in the NYC market beyond what PSU has already done. In the case of Rutgers, I don't think it would help much, your right about that.

Missouri would add basic cable/satellite exposure in both St. Louis and Kansas City which are fairly large markets. You may be right, Mizzou may not pull down huge #'s there (though I think they do OK) but that is secondary to the # of per subsriber fees that will be generated in these to large markets for the BTN. I don't think a cable company in either city could afford to refuse to carry it. DirecTV and Dish already have agreements to carry in any state in the 'footprint.' Nebraska on the other hand, adds only a few small markets like Lincoln and Omaha. Not nearly the same market penetration.

Now when it comes time to re-negotiate with ESPN/ABC is Nebraska more attractive then Missouri? Yes for football, no for basketball. Nebraksa still probably wins in that, but I don't think the mothership would pay enough extra to off-set what the BTN would lose out on in St. Louis and KC.

[GopherGod]

Nebraska has it's positives, but it's simply not the football power it once was, and likely won't be anytime soon. It's other sports are pretty average. And it doesn't add two large media markets the way Missouri does. Missouri is still a better fit overall. If we're only thinking football, I can see Nebraska, but let's not get tunnel vision.

I think Pelini already has them on the way back in year 2 and in a few years(2-3) they will be back competing at a high level. As NateDawgUM stated as well they also do very well at the non revenue sports with a long tradition of excellence in volleyball, gymnastics, track and field, etc. They have also been very successful over the past 10-12 years in baseball. I don't know however if I would see Nebraska making the switch because in addition to the Oklahoma rivalry which they do not get to play every year they do still have a pretty bitter rivalry with Colorado. They just have to much history in the Big 8/Big 12. I think Missouri or Pitt would be the more likely schools to make the switch.

[NateDawgUM]

Adding Penn State opened up those markets because they have a ton of fans. That's why you add them rather than Temple. Nebraska has one of the largest fan bases in college sports.

I understand that adding Missouri gets St. Louis and KC into the Big Ten market instead of Big XII, but fan interest isn't high.

Why add Notre Dame? Chicago is already a Big Ten region. Oh, because they have a national fan base. Same as Nebraska.

[dpodoll68]

I don't know however if I would see Nebraska making the switch because in addition to the Oklahoma rivalry which they do not get to play every year they do still have a pretty bitter rivalry with Colorado. They just have to much history in the Big 8/Big 12. I think Missouri or Pitt would be the more likely schools to make the switch.

Huh? Nebraska joined the Big Eight in 1907. Missouri joined the Big Eight in 1907.

[magpie]

UConn will be seriously considered.

It isn't as clear cut they won't be as magpie seems to think.

I wasn't referring to UConn alone, but as his so-called alignment would go as well. No way would Minn-Wisc be split up, let alone Mich-OSU.

The entire first post is a laugh at best.... as are many people's parody threads (chicago/toronto).

I do like the BC idea, but that won't happen.

[ORGopher]

Media markets will be a big consideration in terms of adding the 12th team, esp since the conference has its own networks...Nebraska is nice, but they don't have the markets as others have already stated.

[ORGopher]

I wasn't referring to UConn alone, but as his so-called alignment would go as well. No way would Minn-Wisc be split up, let alone Mich-OSU.

The entire first post is a laugh at best.... as are many people's parody threads (chicago/toronto).

I do like the BC idea, but that won't happen.

OK Magpie - lets hear what you have?

[PlayHosea]

Nebraska would be a great choice...if it wasn't for their #1 fan:

http://wavegypsy.com/LARRYTHECABLEGUYGUITAR.jpg

[GopherGod]

Huh? Nebraska joined the Big Eight in 1907. Missouri joined the Big Eight in 1907.


Maybe I should have said illustrious history, are you happy. When talking about the history of football in the Big 8, there are two teams mentioned and that is Oklahoma and Nebraska because those two teams played each other the last week of the conference season and that game was often for the conference and many times to determine who would get to play for the national championship. Missouri was rarely even a consideration when it came to football in the days of the Big 8. If the Big Ten was to take Missouri then TCU could join the Big 12.

[Zeppelin Gopher]

The more I think about it, the more I think Nebraska might be a strong fit.


Please let it be the Huskers!

6 hour road trip to watch us play in Lincoln every other year?

Yes please!!!


http://betweenthelinesblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/nebraskamemorialstadium.jpg

Sea of Red baby!

[NateDawgUM]

Missouri was rarely even a consideration when it came to football in the days of the Big 8. If the Big Ten was to take Missouri then TCU could join the Big 12.

So then why we would want them?

My problem with Missouri is that they have no long standing football tradition. Their basketball program is good, but not great. Their non-revenue sports are pedestrian. They're not terribly great academically. The only positive is that they tap into a high population state, but a state that isn't die hard about college sports.

[Zeppelin Gopher]

Nebraska has it's positives, but it's simply not the football power it once was, and likely won't be anytime soon. It's other sports are pretty average. And it doesn't add two large media markets the way Missouri does. Missouri is still a better fit overall. If we're only thinking football, I can see Nebraska, but let's not get tunnel vision.

Nebraska would add the Omaha and Lincoln markets, not to mention the fact that they have an enormous national fan base.

[GopherGod]

So then why we would want them?

My problem with Missouri is that they have no long standing football tradition. Their basketball program is good, but not great. Their non-revenue sports are pedestrian. They're not terribly great academically. The only positive is that they tap into a high population state, but a state that isn't die hard about college sports.


I don't think that Mizzou is the preferred choice but may be one of the better options out of those that are realistically available, along with Pitt. If the conference wants a 12th team they may have to settle for their second or third choice unfortunately. I think that Notre Dame or Nebraska would be great choices but I just don't see either one of those schools joining the Big Ten.

[Ron Johnson Super Fan]

Notre Dame's television deal with NBC runs through 2015. I don't see them joining the Big Ten as long as that chicken keeps laying its golden eggs.

[magpie]

OK Magpie - lets hear what you have?

I wasn't claiming to have the correct answer, but rather that yours was most definitely not it. Notre Dame, Pitt, Missouri, Syracuse, etc all have a much better chance. BC doesn't match, and it is far more likely than UConn.

At any rate, your divisional split is laughable (splitting the biggest rivalries!), UConn doesn't fit geographically, nor is the market ideal (though it's not terrible...), I like the concept of the additional hockey school (but this will not be a factor in them joining, so it's only brownie points towards me and Bronko), couldn't find the academic listing to compare them to Big Ten standards...

... all in all, I give it an D+. The creativity was there, but the research was obviously not done (and we really didn't need a new thread for your one comment that could have easily been appended to the original thread like everyone else - hence the parody threads). I'm just saying. :)

[PlayHosea]

The only correct answer is NDSU. Go Bison!

[magpie]

The only correct answer is NDSU. Go Bison!

A for humor, F for reality. ;)

[RodentRampage]

Notre Dame's television deal with NBC runs through 2015. I don't see them joining the Big Ten as long as that chicken keeps laying its golden eggs.

I wonder if all this expansion talk might be to send a message to Notre Dame that the Big Ten might not be a fallback option if things go sour. If this new coach winds up being Charlie Weis 2.0, the NBC TV deal might not be as generous when it comes up for renewal. Perhaps the Big Ten is sending a message that the offer to join the Big Ten isn't an offer in perpetuity, that they will continue looking at other expansion opportunities?

[magpie]

I wonder if all this expansion talk might be to send a message to Notre Dame that the Big Ten might not be a fallback option if things go sour. If this new coach winds up being Charlie Weis 2.0, the NBC TV deal might not be as generous when it comes up for renewal. Perhaps the Big Ten is sending a message that the offer to join the Big Ten isn't an offer in perpetuity, that they will continue looking at other expansion opportunities?

Nice observation.

[JoeDirt]

RUTGERS!

-Big university (50,000+ students)
-New York/New Jersey market
-Great athletic recruiting area (2nd best in the East behind Pennsylvania)
-Easy access with airports
-Great academics
-Solid football program
-Great womens basketball

your thoughts?

[howeda7]

Adding Penn State opened up those markets because they have a ton of fans. That's why you add them rather than Temple. Nebraska has one of the largest fan bases in college sports.

I understand that adding Missouri gets St. Louis and KC into the Big Ten market instead of Big XII, but fan interest isn't high.

Why add Notre Dame? Chicago is already a Big Ten region. Oh, because they have a national fan base. Same as Nebraska.

Nebraska doesn't have any more of a national fan base then anyone else. Certainly nothing like Notre Dame does. Or Florida or USC for that matter. Nebraska has a strong presence in the midwest (Iowa, SD, even MN) which is why it may seem that way to you. But I can honestly say that I have never met one Nebraska fan on the East Coast in 5 years.

Nebraska has an incredibly loyal fan base, without a doubt. It takes some doing to turn Notre Dame stadium half red. Or pack the Metrodome with 50,000 +. They travel as well as anyone in America. But don't confuse loyalty with having some sort of huge national following. Is thier national following better then Missouri? Yes. But not by so much as to offset Missouri's other advantages IMO.

[RedPoo]

I wonder if all this expansion talk might be to send a message to Notre Dame that the Big Ten might not be a fallback option if things go sour. If this new coach winds up being Charlie Weis 2.0, the NBC TV deal might not be as generous when it comes up for renewal. Perhaps the Big Ten is sending a message that the offer to join the Big Ten isn't an offer in perpetuity, that they will continue looking at other expansion opportunities?


Interesting, but I think if that were the case they would have waited a year or two before starting the expansion push. When they come back a year from now and announce they decided to try to add a team, ND will still be a couple of years from having an idea where they'll be with NBC when the time comes to re-up.
Also, even if they remain middling, they'll be able to find a network somewhere who's willing to pay a goodish chunk to televise their games.

[RedPoo]

RUTGERS!

-Big university (50,000+ students)
-New York/New Jersey market
-Great athletic recruiting area (2nd best in the East behind Pennsylvania)
-Easy access with airports
-Great academics
-Solid football program
-Great womens basketball

your thoughts?

great idea...I'm surprised no one's mentioned this before.

[skoalvikings]

RUTGERS!

-Big university (50,000+ students)
-New York/New Jersey market
-Great athletic recruiting area (2nd best in the East behind Pennsylvania)
-Easy access with airports
-Great academics
-Solid football program
-Great womens basketball

your thoughts?

Of all of the schools that have been mentioned, Rutgers is the most similar to the non-NW Big Ten schools. Large campus, huge student body, land-grant, med school, law school, good research University, etc. I just don't think the Big Ten will want to go further east than Happy Valley.

[howeda7]

Nebraska would add the Omaha and Lincoln markets, not to mention the fact that they have an enormous national fan base.

Adding Mizzou gains access to the following markets:
St. Louis -market 21
Kansas City-market 32
Springfield, MO-market 74
Cape Girardeau, MO, Paducah KY-market 78
Columbia-market 137
Joplin, MO-market 147
Hannibal, MO-market 171
Kirksville, MO-market 200
St. Joseph, MO-market 201

On the other hand for Nebraska:
Omaha is market 76
Lincoln is market 105
Scottsbluff-market 198
North Platte-market 209

From the aspect of media markets added, which is the #1 criteria IMO, it's not even close. And as for Nebraska's 'national following' as stated before, I think that is over-rated.

[GoAUpher]

I think one of the most important criteria that matters for judging the national reach of a fan base is will it get BTN access to areas it doesn't currently have good access to via cable providers. I'd say yes for ND (though I have nothing to prove this) and no for pretty much any other team we're considering.

That's why the regional markets accessed become important for non-ND schools...how many eyeballs a school can gain the B10 will probably play a big part of the process.

[tjgopher]

Who cares about media markets? We'd be adding Missouri, not the St. Louis Cardinals.

Missourians aren't crazy about their college sports. Who cares if they have TVs if they're on another channel?

I've also never understood this rationale for Rutgers. My entire family is from New York and nobody gives two poops about Rutgers.

The idea isn't necessarily about interest in the said media markets. It is about clearance of the Big Ten Network. Remember, in the primary 8-state region of the Big Ten, the BTN gets anywhere between $.50-$1 per month per subscriber!

So, you add Rutgers and hope to start getting clearance in the 20-million person New York/New Jersey area and the $$$$ starts adding up fast. Getting clearance will be a hurdle, because as you said, the interest isn't all that high.

Not so with Missouri. You add the Tigers and instantly STL and KC pick up the BTN and put it on their basic expanded/standard plans. You do that, and you're talking about the possibility of adding $2-4 million PER MONTH of revenue just off of the subscriber fees. And, I might add that the Springfield/Branson area is still one of the fastest growing markets in the nation, too, and they would add BTN on basic, as well. The Jeff City/Columbia market is decent, as well. You're talking about maybe $5 million per month of revenue or $60 million extra per year. The expense of adding Mizzou isn't that high, as they have everything in place.

I never gave Missouri a second thought in all of this because I figured they would never walk away from the Big 12. They are a charter Big 8 member and have a long-standing rivalry with Kansas. But, apparently they are unhappy with the shift of power within the league to the Texas schools and the switch of the conference's headquarters out of KC and into Dallas. If that is the case, then Mizzou is a legit player in the expansion discussion, no question about it. I think the Big Ten opened this up for discussion right now because of Mizzou. The Big Ten - like me - probably figured Missouri would never bolt from the Big 12. There apparently is some slight momentum now.

Mizzou has a very nice campus, a 70,000-seat football stadium, a brand new basketball arena, and the academics are a fit. Mizzou also does have some outstanding fringe sports. Baseball would be an instant Big Ten contender and a probable yearly favorite to win the league. Wrestling has been good. Volleyball has been well above average.

[GopherGod]

Nebraska doesn't have any more of a national fan base then anyone else. Certainly nothing like Notre Dame does. Or Florida or USC for that matter. Nebraska has a strong presence in the midwest (Iowa, SD, even MN) which is why it may seem that way to you. But I can honestly say that I have never met one Nebraska fan on the East Coast in 5 years.

Nebraska has an incredibly loyal fan base, without a doubt. It takes some doing to turn Notre Dame stadium half red. Or pack the Metrodome with 50,000 +. They travel as well as anyone in America. But don't confuse loyalty with having some sort of huge national following. Is thier national following better then Missouri? Yes. But not by so much as to offset Missouri's other advantages IMO.

I am going to have to disagree with you here, Nebraska has over 60 recognized alumni chapters outside the state of Nebraska while Minnesota for comparison has 32 chapters outside the state. Nebraska definitely has more chapters on the west coast versus the east coast but there are some there as well, in fact a high school classmate of mine was the president of the chapter in NYC for sometime.

[GoAUpher]

I am going to have to disagree with you here, Nebraska has over 60 recognized alumni chapters outside the state of Nebraska while Minnesota for comparison has 32 chapters outside the state. Nebraska definitely has more chapters on the west coast versus the east coast but there are some there as well, in fact a high school classmate of mine was the president of the chapter in NYC for sometime.

The only thing that matters is whether these alumni clubs translate into national TV appeal. I'm not saying they don't, not saying they do (I'm not even sure what would be the best way to gauge the "national appeal" of any team besides Notre Dame). What is for certain is that other teams definitely outperform Nebraska in terms of the regional markets they put in play.

Notre Dame is a different animal because we know that Notre Dame's national base does translate into big national ratings...its why they get their own TV deal.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

They will never break up the wcha, it is the elite league in college hockey and dumping on 8 of the 10 teams (soon to be 10 of 12 teams, Omaha and Bemidji State) to make a big 10 team that would only have 5 or 6 teams would be stupid.

i would not be so sure of this. i actually see a big ten hockey conference happening sooner rather than later.

[tjgopher]

From a Nebraska standpoint, they do bring some cache. Outside of Notre Dame, they have the biggest name brand. Say what you want about the Huskers, but from a purely football standpoint (eliminate TV markets, etc.), Nebby brings something powerful to the conference. And, they are a good fit academically. Football wise - just look at the potential - these matchups will create headlines moreso than Rutgers or Mizzou:

Nebraska vs. Ohio State
Nebraska vs. Michigan
Nebraska vs. Penn State
Nebraska vs. Minnesota
Nebraska vs. Iowa
Nebraska vs. Wisconsin

Those six matchups would create national interest. TV networks would be all over them. No question about it. In fact, those first three would probably immediately become three of the top ten matchups in the Big Ten year-in and year-out.

I cannot see Nebraska stepping out of the Big 12 with rivalries with Kansas, Missouri, K-State, Oklahoma, etc. But, I thought the same thing about Mizzou and apparently they are putting out feelers.

[GopherGod]

From a Nebraska standpoint, they do bring some cache. Outside of Notre Dame, they have the biggest name brand. Say what you want about the Huskers, but from a purely football standpoint (eliminate TV markets, etc.), Nebby brings something powerful to the conference. And, they are a good fit academically. Football wise - just look at the potential - these matchups will create headlines moreso than Rutgers or Mizzou:

Nebraska vs. Ohio State
Nebraska vs. Michigan
Nebraska vs. Penn State
Nebraska vs. Minnesota
Nebraska vs. Iowa
Nebraska vs. Wisconsin

Those six matchups would create national interest. TV networks would be all over them. No question about it. In fact, those first three would probably immediately become three of the top ten matchups in the Big Ten year-in and year-out.

I cannot see Nebraska stepping out of the Big 12 with rivalries with Kansas, Missouri, K-State, Oklahoma, etc. But, I thought the same thing about Mizzou and apparently they are putting out feelers.


I agree with you. Nebraska would be a good fit but I don't see them leaving the Big 12. They still have enough influence (fan support, money) in the Big 12 to have a voice and the conference would fight hard to keep them there because without them there is no North division. I don't think that the Big 12 would fight that hard to keep Mizzou when they can bring in TCU or Houston.

[GoAUpher]

I agree with you. Nebraska would be a good fit but I don't see them leaving the Big 12. They still have enough influence (fan support, money) in the Big 12 to have a voice and the conference would fight hard to keep them there because without them there is no North division. I don't think that the Big 12 would fight that hard to keep Mizzou when they can bring in TCU or Houston.
I'd agree with this. If Nebraska really wants more of the pie and didn't care about being evil they could certainly try to play a Big 10 offer into a better Big 12 deal. Pretty much everyone in both conferences might end up hating them though. :) I also agree that the Big 12 would be comfortable with replacing (from a football/money standpoint anyway) Mizzou with TCU. Same/better quality football team with an athletic department that would view their smaller share of the TV money pie as an upgrade.

[tjgopher]

I'd agree with this. If Nebraska really wants more of the pie and didn't care about being evil they could certainly try to play a Big 10 offer into a better Big 12 deal. Pretty much everyone in both conferences might end up hating them though. :) I also agree that the Big 12 would be comfortable with replacing (from a football/money standpoint anyway) Mizzou with TCU. Same/better quality football team with an athletic department that would view their smaller share of the TV money pie as an upgrade.

I think everyone is jumping the gun on TCU. They would fall into about 4th or 5th on the pecking order. The Big 12 would make a hard push to lure Arkansas back into the Texas consortium (remember they used to be SWC members and had a huge rivalry with Texas). Arkansas would likely listen, too. They aren't entirely happy with the SEC setup and Arkansas borders Texas and Oklahoma. But, if Arkansas said no, I think they'd then try to raid the MWC, but it would be for Utah, and not TCU. Arkansas and Utah expand the league's reach and TV. TCU doesn't bring anything new and their football team becomes just ordinary playing in the Big 12 anyway. In fact, if Utah said no, then I think the Big 12 might look at BYU or New Mexico before TCU. Again, for purposes of expanding exposure.

[Weddings and Steak Frys]

The only correct answer is NDSU. Go Bison!

:party:

Think of the possibilities... Maybe howeda can take a break from his pimping Mizzou and work up a quick analysis of the Fargo, Bismarck and Grand Forks media markets. Since he included Jeff City too maybe we could look at Drayton, McVille (pron Mac-Vil), New Town, Hettinger and Bowbells markets as well. Just imagine--Fargo brings in West Fargo, Bismarck also brings Mandan, Grand Forks brings in Park River, McVille brings along Michigan (not that Michigan silly, the real Michigan, Michigan, ND!), New Town brings in Stanley (the town and the guy) we get the Hettinger market, we also get McIntosh,SD and Bowbells opens up Kenmare! Lakesbison must be wetting himself thinking of the calls flowing into Fargo...

I think in the end this exercise will amount to absolutely nothing. Delany has been lukewarm on the prospect and as the SI column by Mandel summed up, the prospective new team would need to generate around $22.5 million per year to the league to make it a break-even proposition. I know some folks think this thing is all about sports, but never underestimate the role of academia in this. The Presidents of the schools in the CIC won't take adding another school lightly. Given the academic end, if the league expands it will most likely be only for Notre Dame or Pittsburgh. Mizzou would need to make some significant commitments to the academic/endowment/program side of the ledger to be considered. That said, they have some deep pockets down there, see the Kroenke family. Still, Mizzou doesn't have the midwest feel that makes the Big Ten the Big Ten. I say this gets discussed and dies a natural death for 5 more years when the Notre Dame/NBC contract expires.

[GoAUpher]

I think everyone is jumping the gun on TCU. They would fall into about 4th or 5th on the pecking order. The Big 12 would make a hard push to lure Arkansas back into the Texas consortium (remember they used to be SWC members and had a huge rivalry with Texas). Arkansas would likely listen, too. They aren't entirely happy with the SEC setup and Arkansas borders Texas and Oklahoma. But, if Arkansas said no, I think they'd then try to raid the MWC, but it would be for Utah, and not TCU. Arkansas and Utah expand the league's reach and TV. TCU doesn't bring anything new and their football team becomes just ordinary playing in the Big 12 anyway. In fact, if Utah said no, then I think the Big 12 might look at UNLV or New Mexico before TCU. Again, for purposes of expanding exposure.

All good points on TCU. And I agree, the B12 would want the Hogs first. I discounted them because I figured they'd never leave the SEC.

DeltaHog: If you read this would you care to comment? :)

In the end I think the point remains the same...the Big 12 would likely be comfortable replacing a Mizzou with a Utah, TCU, UNLV, New Mexico (assuming Arkansas is out) because they'd look at everything about the deal as a move up while Mizzou seems unhappy with its spot in the pecking order.

[GopherGod]

All good points on TCU. And I agree, the B12 would want the Hogs first. I discounted them because I figured they'd never leave the SEC.

DeltaHog: If you read this would you care to comment? :)

In the end I think the point remains the same...the Big 12 would likely be comfortable replacing a Mizzou with a Utah, TCU, UNLV, New Mexico (assuming Arkansas is out) because they'd look at everything about the deal as a move up while Mizzou seems unhappy with its spot in the pecking order.

If not TCU then I see the Big 12 going for Houston before the other schools listed, again like you assuming that Arkansas will never leave the SEC.

[tjgopher]

If not TCU then I see the Big 12 going for Houston before the other schools listed, again like you assuming that Arkansas will never leave the SEC.

I suppose we could quibble over that all night, but I don't see TCU or Houston as being that high on their list should Mizzou bolt. Neither TCU or Houston brings enough. They are urban, mostly commuter schools with small fan bases that are Page 8 news in their own cities. Neither draws particularly well in football and certainly not up to Big 12 standards. Neither plays in a great venue. And, the Big 12 already owns the state of Texas so adding either TCU or Houston (or even old SWC member SMU) offers nothing in terms of additional exposure, TV money or national interest. The University of Texas and Texas A&M are already the front page stories in Houston relating to college football. Not the U of Houston. Plus, with North teams already pissed about the state of TX's power in the league's structure, I think the league would be smart to NOT add yet another team from the Lone Star State. In fact, if you add Houston or TCU, you have to break off one of the Oklahoma schools and put them into the North Division. Not likely and not popular.

Utah would allow the Big 12 to expand to a new region, give them the 31st largest TV market in the country, play in a Big 12 caliber stadium (Olympic opening ceremonies held there) with Big 12 attendance standards (avg almost 50,000), allow them to put them in the Big 12 North (which they'd need if Mizzou left), the other Utes sports (MBB, etc.) offer much more than TCU or Houston, and the Utes would give the conference a little attention in the mountain region with Colorado. Actually, BYU also brings that (and maybe more), as well. BYU actually has a better name brand and averages 64,000 fans per game in one of the best settings in all of college football. Other sports are good, too. My guess is that Utah and BYU could hold out to wait for an eventual Pac Ten invite when that league chooses to go to 12 teams and play a title game. Those two may not want to separate as it is literally a holy war rivalry.

Also, one darkhorse candidate for the Big 12 could be Memphis.

[JoeDirt]

I'd agree with this. If Nebraska really wants more of the pie and didn't care about being evil they could certainly try to play a Big 10 offer into a better Big 12 deal. Pretty much everyone in both conferences might end up hating them though. :) I also agree that the Big 12 would be comfortable with replacing (from a football/money standpoint anyway) Mizzou with TCU. Same/better quality football team with an athletic department that would view their smaller share of the TV money pie as an upgrade.

TCU is a joke and the Big 12 will never go for them. they don't sell out their stadium despite thier success, and they're not even close to selling out thier bowl game. besides that they have a tiny enrollment, horrible academics, little or no following around the state of texas....including dallas/fort worth.

[GoAUpher]

TCU is a joke and the Big 12 will never go for them. they don't sell out their stadium despite thier success, and they're not even close to selling out thier bowl game. besides that they have a tiny enrollment, horrible academics, little or no following around the state of texas....including dallas/fort worth.

Fair enough. I knew about the attendance thing, but that and the fact that they play good football is about all I know about the school. I like TJ's points about the Utah schools.

[Handsome Pete]

RUTGERS!

-Big university (50,000+ students)
-New York/New Jersey market
-Great athletic recruiting area (2nd best in the East behind Pennsylvania)
-Easy access with airports
-Great academics
-Solid football program
-Great womens basketball

your thoughts?

I am getting behind Rutgers. At one point, I thought they would be the worst possible candidate for the first and most prestigious football Conference in the nation. But since I heard Missouri was an option, Rutgers seems like a complete ace. Still want Pittsburgh though.

EDIT- and another thing. Rutgers is fine academically for the Big Ten (Missouri and any other Big 12 school other than Texas are not) but just think how the profile of their athletics will skyrocket after joining the Big Ten.

[MaxyJR1]

On the radio this morning I heard that there are grumblings that Colorado might be looking at the PAC 10. If we get Missouri or another Big 12 team, we could just swith conference names. We're the new Big 12.

[NateDawgUM]

Wait a minute here, when did Rutgers turn into this fantastic academic institution?

Their endowment is a solid $400 million behind Iowa, which currently has the smallest in the Big Ten.

In any ranking that I've seen, they'd slide in right near the bottom of the Big Ten in academics. Athletically, they're a sort-of women's basketball power. Wooooooooot!

[skoalvikings]

Maturi, quoted in Reusse's article:

"If we tried to play nine now, with 11 teams, one of us would only play eight," Maturi said. "To me, the chance to play nine conference games would be an advantage to adding a 12th team."

9 games is a big selling point for me.

[Schnauzer]

I dislike Nebraska very much so. I feel like I would have to hate them if they would join the Big Ten. I'm not sure I have any hate left in me with Iowa and Wisc. getting all of it. This could be a problem.

Well played.

[howeda7]

:party:

Think of the possibilities... Maybe howeda can take a break from his pimping Mizzou and work up a quick analysis of the Fargo, Bismarck and Grand Forks media markets. Since he included Jeff City too maybe we could look at Drayton, McVille (pron Mac-Vil), New Town, Hettinger and Bowbells markets as well. Just imagine--Fargo brings in West Fargo, Bismarck also brings Mandan, Grand Forks brings in Park River, McVille brings along Michigan (not that Michigan silly, the real Michigan, Michigan, ND!), New Town brings in Stanley (the town and the guy) we get the Hettinger market, we also get McIntosh,SD and Bowbells opens up Kenmare! Lakesbison must be wetting himself thinking of the calls flowing into Fargo...



Sarcasm duly noted, but I was simply listing all of the TV markets in MO (which has a lot more then I thought) vs. Nebraska. ND has all 2 I believe (Fargo and Bismark) and they are both small. No analysis needed. I must have missed Hettinger and McIntosh, SD :rolleyes:

[ORGopher]

Magpie, I guess I am surprised that you didn't like my thread as now we have four pages of responses...seems to me there is a lot of conversation. I certainly accept that you don't like UConn as a possible choice, but I would rather see UConn before Syracuse or Rutgers. On paper, Pitt is a solid possibility and while Nebraska is a good idea I don't see it happening because of the television markets.

I will debate you on the divisions. I think you missed the point I made. Although the biggest rivals are split, they will play each other every year in football. You protect your "rival" game in the schedule. It is more laughable to think that you would have a division with Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan together.

I have to give your response a C-...you pass, but not with honors. :)

[verbaljitsu]

Hey everyone,

I did my undergrad at Mizzou, and I'm at Minnesota Law right now.

Mizzou would be perfect for Big Ten expansion. Mizzou brings the media dollars, fits in academically, and athletically.

Nebraska used to be a football powerhouse, but frankly when the NCAA changed scholarship rules, it has slowly taken it out of Nebraska. I think most people would be shocked to know that Nebraska pays its football coach less than 5 other Big XII programs (including Missouri) and ranks 25th nationally.

Mizzou has made huge strides athletically, beating Nebraska 3 out of the last 4 years. They have a newly remodeled football stadium and a beautiful basketball arena that opened in 2006. It is only on the upside. Mizzou has been making waves recently with low-level recruits. But this year in football and basketball they have roughly top 15 recruiting classes. For comparison, Nebraska's class is rated 34. Don't be fooled by Nebraska's success this year. Suh really carried that team in basically every game. It will be in trouble without him. Nebraska has no offensive prospects and the defense is about to take an epic hit. Football isn't the only sport MU is good at though. Mizzou had first round picks in Football (Maclin, and Hood), Basketball (Carroll), and Baseball (two pitchers). Mizzou would already be the best baseball team in the Big Ten. MU is on a 5 year bowl streak, and made the Elite 8 last year.

Additionally, several of you are really underrating the following Mizzou has. The fanbase is much better than you are giving it credit for. Sometimes they may not travel well (this might even be a myth, I haven't seen any data to back it up), but Mizzou gets great ratings. Mizzou's bowl games recently have gotten great ratings nationally, and the Tigers have played in some hot games. In 2007, "Espn on Abc" had an average broadcast rating of 4.3. But Mizzou played in two games on "Espn on Abc" that nearly broke 11. They played in consecutive weeks, in 2 of "espn on abc's" top 10 rated games ever. To the extent Mizzou gets bad support, it is likely because of its terrible deal with the Big XII. Several Mizzou games a year are on PPV. The rest are generally on cable channels like Fox Sports and Versus. Mizzou really gets shut out of the current Big XII deal.

Missouri brings the media markets you are looking for. Kansas City and St. Louis are top 30 markets. Several smaller cities in the state have more tv's in them than all of Nebraska. For comparison. Kansas City has more than a million more people in it than the entire state of Nebraska.

Finally, Mizzou academics are seriously underrated. This is mostly a product of the silly US News Rankings, in my opinion. Missouri has a world renowned Journalism school. It also has its own nuclear reactor and the world class engineering school (MUST) is a part of the system. Mizzou has a law school, business school, veterinary school, and medical school on campus. The MU system has 3 law schools, 3 medical schools, and a host of other academic resources. Generally, those satellite campuses are never figured into the equation. Missouri is both similar and different to the Minnesota system. It spreads its schools out, but they all work under the same banner and share resources.

A friend of mine has been operating a blog that explains why a Big Ten - Mizzou relationship would be mutually beneficial. Check it out: http://www.big10mizzou.com/

[magpie]

Magpie, I guess I am surprised that you didn't like my thread as now we have four pages of responses...seems to me there is a lot of conversation.
Again, my point was that it was unnecessary for you to create a new thread with your opinion on a topic that already had the board using a general thread on the topic for everyone to post their opinions within. It's called organization -- but it's cool, it's normal around here -- the moderators obviously don't care about keeping the boards reasonable. Now claiming that this thread is worthy because of the number of pages it has is absolutely ridiculous or humorous (hopefully you intended the latter). Why? Case & point: http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showthread.php?t=12578
;)


I certainly accept that you don't like UConn as a possible choice, but I would rather see UConn before Syracuse or Rutgers. On paper, Pitt is a solid possibility and while Nebraska is a good idea I don't see it happening because of the television markets.
UConn doesn't fit a majority of the traditional and/or assumed requirements, but otherwise is a good school. I'm not a fan of Rutgers for the same reasons (and more). Syracuse is okay, but I'd hope they'd be a last resort to the official committee.


I will debate you on the divisions. I think you missed the point I made. Although the biggest rivals are split, they will play each other every year in football. You protect your "rival" game in the schedule. It is more laughable to think that you would have a division with Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan together.
Scheduling sucks enough as it is -- why add a rival game on top of it? If done correctly, your top rivals should already be played yearly within the division. There are many, many better choices for divisions than what you posted... however it's all for naught until we find out who the 12th school is.


I have to give your response a C-...you pass, but not with honors. :)
Sweeeeeeeeet. I was just being facetious on that anyway. It seemed you were posting your wish more than a reasonable suggestion. *shrug* opinions are opinions...

For the record, I'm going to say (well, considering Notre Dame again squashed our invite this week) Nebraska >>> Missouri/Syracuse/Pitt > Iowa St/Rutgers/UConn/BC/WV

[mkAz]

How about the Big 14?

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/8319/could-the-big-ten-become-the-big-14

[Vancouver-USA]

I would recommend the University of Toronto. Of course, the Varsity Blues would need to upgrade their athletic department, but here are some things to consider:
- largest University in Canada (55,000 students)
- Toronto metro population of 7 million
- Ontario population of 13 million
- They would be Canada's representative in NCAA division I sports. Canada's population is 34 million.
- easy access from all Big 10 schools (with a passport)
- good geographic fit
- international status would make the conference more interesting

[howeda7]

How about the Big 14?

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/8319/could-the-big-ten-become-the-big-14

Let's try and follow the dominoes from that one:

The Big 10 picks off Mizzou, Nebraska and Rutgers, meanwhile

The Pac 10 picks of Utah and Colorado

The Big 12 is pissed. They go get Arkansas back while adding Houston and UNLV to make up for the 3 lost members.

The SEC can't be slighted. They go offer Miami big $$ to jump.

The ACC take Syracuse as a replacement, since that's who they really wanted over Va. Tech anyway.

The Big East is left in a tough spot to replace Rutgers and Syracuse. They settle for Memphis and UCF.

Conference USA is down from 12 to 9. They add FIU from the Sunbelt and stay at 10.

The Mountain West replaces UNLV and Utah with Boise State and New Mexico State.

And finally the WAC replaces Boise and NMSU with NDSU and SDSU. Whew.

[station19]

I would recommend the University of Toronto. Of course, the Varsity Blues would need to upgrade their athletic department, but here are some things to consider:
- largest University in Canada (55,000 students)
- Toronto metro population of 7 million
- Ontario population of 13 million
- They would be Canada's representative in NCAA division I sports. Canada's population is 34 million.
- easy access from all Big 10 schools (with a passport)
- good geographic fit
- international status would make the conference more interesting

Great. Our National Champion could be from Canada.

[magpie]

I'd like Nebraska, Missouri, and Pitt. 16 is too much, 12 should consist of one of those 3 schools.