Brewster stays

[Mr. Samsonite]

Brewster will be staying here, he got an extension to his contract and hopefully huff will change his mind, but i highly doubt it

[hyaluronic]

Link?

[Mr. Samsonite]

I dont need a link, i know for a fact, press conference is tomorrow

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

hope you are right and not just messin' around. it would mean the spineless, aww shucks, wonder-dweeb joel maturi has finally found the coconuts to make an executive decision one way or the other on the very important subject.

if it is true, then the unfortunate part is i think joel maturi's fence-sitting has once again caused a gophers athletic program some good recruits who got scared and bolted because they thought the coach they committed to might be on his/her way out.

[Mr. Samsonite]

yeah at least the damn circus will be over haha

[JoeDirt]

Paleeeese be true!

[carh1981]

Maturi is just giving him the extension for recruiting purposes. He'll be fired after next season.

[gophmeister]

Maturi is just giving him the extension for recruiting purposes. He'll be fired after next season.

Link please?

[carh1981]

it's a little speculation...but I think obvious

[Gold Vision]

it's a little speculation...but I think obvious

Brilliant.

[MNCH]

Is this the same source that guaranteed us a spot in the Alamo Bowl?

[bankonit]

obvious? why, because Brewster has reached the same level in year 3 as it took Mason 10 years to reach. Because Brewster has moved our talent level to 4th best in the Big 10 and from 60th nationally to 30th? Because we have upgraded talent waiting to play at every single position on the field? ya, makes sense to fire him and it is completely obvious. People who don't understand how far Brewster has taken this program do not understand what a real football program looks like. I guess if you don't want the Gophers to resemble the Longhorns then Brewster needs to be fired, if you want to be playing for National Championships like Mack Brown then Brewster should stay.

[carh1981]

when we're 5-7 next year with another year of terrible offense it will be obvious that Maturi will let him go.

The program is in the same place it was when Mason left.....average. Much better talent under Brew, but much worse coaching. I was really hopeful when Brew took over, but midway through this season I could see the writing on the wall. He's done...it's just a matter of time. Should have fired him after the Iowa game, now we're just spinning our wheels for another year.

[bankonit]

back to the same level as the previous coaching staff in year 3 is actually very good. You expect to take many steps back before taking big steps forward. How did people not expect this? Brewster should not be judged for another 2 years, in 2 years if he is not finishing in the top 3 or 4 in the Big 10 then he should be evaluated, anything before that is waaaaay to soon to judge. He is still playing with Mason's rejects as Junior's and Senior's.

[tikited]

He is still playing with Mason's rejects as Junior's and Senior's.

I really doubt that is the best way to describe some of our best players. Best players by a mile in some cases.

[bankonit]

please list which of those are our best? I can only think of Decker.

[Catechol]

Brewster has reached the same level in year 3 as it took Mason 10 years to reach...Brewster should not be judged for another 2 years, in 2 years if he is not finishing in the top 3 or 4 in the Big 10 then he should be evaluated, anything before that is waaaaay to soon to judge. He is still playing with Mason's rejects as Junior's and Senior's.

This is dishonest. In Mason's third year he had an 8-4 record, a win over top 5 PSU, a win over rival Iowa, and a national ranking to finish the season. Brewster has accomplished none of those. And Mason inherited a team that hadn't been to a bowl in over a decade, unlike Brewster.

I also don't think the "5 year rule" should apply to Brewster. He decided to go the JUCO route, and these guys are upperclassmen ready to play right away. Maybe not D1 experienced, but physically mature and playing at the college level. Hence, he should be seeing earlier results. In addition, if his recruting classes are twice as good (by the rankings) as Mason's, his RS frosh and sophomores should be making more penetration into the starting lineup by now. Finally, the new stadium is a recruiting tool and a homefield advantage that Mason didn't have. Hence, I think you've got what you've got now. I don't think giving him beyond next year to succeed will be of much help.

[Gophers09]

This is dishonest. In Mason's third year he had an 8-4 record, a win over top 5 PSU, a win over rival Iowa, and a national ranking to finish the season. Brewster has accomplished none of those. And Mason inherited a team that hadn't been to a bowl in over a decade, unlike Brewster.

I also don't think the "5 year rule" should apply to Brewster. He decided to go the JUCO route, and these guys are upperclassmen ready to play right away. Maybe not D1 experienced, but physically mature and playing at the college level. Hence, he should be seeing earlier results. In addition, if his recruting classes are twice as good (by the rankings) as Mason's, his RS frosh and sophomores should be making more penetration into the starting lineup by now. Finally, the new stadium is a recruiting tool and a homefield advantage that Mason didn't have. Hence, I think you've got what you've got now. I don't think giving him beyond next year to succeed will be of much help.

But the problem is by his 10th year he had lost the progress he made. Maybe the 07 team wouldn't have gone 1-11 with Mase (no system change etc.) but it wouldn't have been much better. (This is becoming a tired debate btw)

[tikited]

please list which of those are our best? I can only think of Decker.

Our linebackers for three. Our Def. front line for some more. Our TE. Get the picture?

[bankonit]

Kirksey and Edwards are upgrades at DT
Maresh, Tinsley, Cooper, Reeves, Singleton are all upgrades at LB
Carter is an Upgrade at DB
Gray is an upgrade at QB
Wilhite and Hageman are upgrades at DE
the receivers are all upgrades
the Oline players waiting in the wings are all upgrades (Brooks Michal, Ed Olson, jimmy Gjere, Ragoo, Henderson)
Lipscomb when he gets here will be the best RB we have had since Maroney/Barber
McKinnley, Simmons, Lawrence are all upper classmen and great but they are Brews guys.

[Great Plains Gopher]

Next year is the crucial year (but I have always believed new coaches need five years). Defense and the kicking game are definitely improved, as is the overall morale of the team (no late game collapses, frequent comebacks, etc.). Offense is the last link and that requires a QB who is not 100 out of 100 nationally in pass efficiency, plus a strong running back who can break tackles, and an improved O-line.

[bankonit]

Lair and Hageman are both better than the walk on Tow Arnett, they just need experience. Rivals, Scout, and ESPN would all agree with me, as would anybody with eyes and a stop watch.

[MNCH]

Because Brewster has moved our talent level to 4th best in the Big 10 and from 60th nationally to 30th? I guess if you don't want the Gophers to resemble the Longhorns then Brewster needs to be fired, if you want to be playing for National Championships like Mack Brown then Brewster should stay.

Congrats, you have been awarded the Kool-Aid Post of the Month!!:drink:

[bankonit]

Our starting LB's were a 2 star (Campbell) 3 star (Tripplett) 4 star (Lawrence, who was a Brewster Guy) Next year we will start a 4 star, a 4 star, and a 3 star, with 3 stars as backups.

[bankonit]

Congrats, you have been awarded the Kool-Aid Post of the Month!!:drink:


Thank you, I would rather be a kool aid drinker than negative and hateful like you and the media. Which is better for the program?

[Catechol]

Gray is an upgrade at QB
Wilhite and Hageman are upgrades at DE...
the Oline players waiting in the wings are all upgrades (Brooks Michal, Ed Olson, jimmy Gjere, Ragoo, Henderson)
Lipscomb when he gets here will be the best RB we have had since Maroney/Barber...
Lair and Hageman are both better than the walk on Tow Arnett, they just need experience. Rivals, Scout, and ESPN would all agree with me, as would anybody with eyes and a stop watch.

This is the "backup QB is always the best player on a struggling team" syndrome to the nth degree. Are you saying the incoming/upcoming players are going to produce more wins because they have more stars behind their names? Statistically that probably bears out when you consider how many 4* and 5* there are at Florida, Texas, OSU, etc. but coaching also has a lot to do with it. There's no way to tell whether these guys will be successful as a TEAM. Look at Illinois with Juice and Benn-how is the Zook model working out there?

As I said, I think year 4 should be it for Brewster. He had his chance to jumpstart things with the JUCOs. If a coach goes that route, he should live with being held to a shorter timeline.

[Radio Badger]

I'm not trying to troll at all here, but you really need to pay a little less attention to stars. Just last season, the Badgers had two linebackers who were wonderful as freshmen that were a two-star (Chris Borland) and a three-star (Mike Taylor). Taylor was great before going down with a knee injury and Borland was only the best freshman in the conference. While you generally would like to have higher-caliber players, I can tell you that there are plenty of blue chip busts.

If the upgrades were as obvious as you say they are, wouldn't these guys have gotten a little more time this year?

[bankonit]

These guys are freshman and need more muscle to play at this level, so no, I would not have expected more time form them this year.

The Zook model has worked well, He has already been to the Rose Bowl.

This is not "backup QB better" syndrome. 99 starting QB's were better than Weber this year, check out the QB rankings Weber SUCKED and it will not take much from Gray to produce better results than the 100th ranked QB.

how many 2 stars are busts compared to how many 4 stars are busts? How many NFL players were highly ranked high school recruits? I believe a whole lot of them.

any other questions I can answer?

[GoGophers2005]

when we're 5-7 next year with another year of terrible offense it will be obvious that Maturi will let him go.

The program is in the same place it was when Mason left.....average. Much better talent under Brew, but much worse coaching. I was really hopeful when Brew took over, but midway through this season I could see the writing on the wall. He's done...it's just a matter of time. Should have fired him after the Iowa game, now we're just spinning our wheels for another year.

I'm sick and tired of people ripping Brewster's coaching...and on top of it saying he's worse than Mason. Have you forgotten the multitude of second half collapses that Mason gave up? How many games has Brew given up 3-4 touchdown leads in the second half? 2 years ago NW? I also want to ask how many times Mason came from 2 touchdowns behind in the second half to win a game? Never? He couldn't coach outside his weekly game plan. Brew on the other hand pretty much always seems to have a better second half.

Is it Brews coaching when Weber throws pick six touchdown passes to wide open defensive backs? Is it his coaching when our kickoffs go out of bounds? Is it coaching when our punter has a net 10 yard punt? (These were all in the Illinois game by the way)
Absolutely not.

I will also address the penalty situation...
I really don't have too much of a problem with our penalties, especially when they are on our defense. I believe Brew has instilled a more aggressive approach to football and this has resulted in more personal fouls and pass interference calls. I'm sure Brew is ticked at the penalties just as we are, but I like that we now play alot of the time with a swagger in our step.

[MNCH]

Our starting LB's were a 2 star (Campbell) 3 star (Tripplett) 4 star (Lawrence, who was a Brewster Guy) Next year we will start a 4 star, a 4 star, and a 3 star, with 3 stars as backups.

So are you saying Lee Campbell played like a two-star player this year? That Lawrence was twice as good as Campbell on the field based on his star rating?

Do you even watch the games? Or just sim them on your Xbox?

[tikited]

So are you saying Lee Campbell played like a two-star player this year? That Lawrence was twice as good as Campbell on the field based on his star rating?

Do you even watch the games? Or just sim them on your Xbox?

What he doesn't get is that our seniors (and some juniors) was/are getting time because right now they are better than the younger guys. Hopefully the younger guys will get better and be better, but that isn't the point--not even close. Bankonit called them rejects. When I hear the term "reject" think of a terrible player. Campbell-Triplett-etc.. are good players right now and far from rejects. We have to remember that Bank can't be positive unless he adds some unbelievable negative statements as well. He means well, I think.

[bankonit]

Campbell and Lawrence don't play the same position, Maresh will be better than Campbell and Cooper will match or excel Lawrence's production. Lawrence also made plays that Cambell can not make based on speed and athleticism.

I appreciate Campbells and Tripplets effort but believe the players behind them have much much more upside and thus are better players. I also call them rejects because who else were offering these guys scholarships? USC? Florida? OSU? Mason's players were players the big boys did not want, he competed with the MAC for everybody's rejects.

[bankonit]

I'm sick and tired of people ripping Brewster's coaching...and on top of it saying he's worse than Mason. Have you forgotten the multitude of second half collapses that Mason gave up? How many games has Brew given up 3-4 touchdown leads in the second half? 2 years ago NW? I also want to ask how many times Mason came from 2 touchdowns behind in the second half to win a game? Never? He couldn't coach outside his weekly game plan. Brew on the other hand pretty much always seems to have a better second half.

Is it Brews coaching when Weber throws pick six touchdown passes to wide open defensive backs? Is it his coaching when our kickoffs go out of bounds? Is it coaching when our punter has a net 10 yard punt? (These were all in the Illinois game by the way)
Absolutely not.

I will also address the penalty situation...
I really don't have too much of a problem with our penalties, especially when they are on our defense. I believe Brew has instilled a more aggressive approach to football and this has resulted in more personal fouls and pass interference calls. I'm sure Brew is ticked at the penalties just as we are, but I like that we now play alot of the time with a swagger in our step.

Completely agree. I also would rather have the penalties playing aggressive than playing a prevent style defense played by Mason.

[GophersInIowa]

I also don't think the "5 year rule" should apply to Brewster. He decided to go the JUCO route, and these guys are upperclassmen ready to play right away. Maybe not D1 experienced, but physically mature and playing at the college level. Hence, he should be seeing earlier results. In addition, if his recruting classes are twice as good (by the rankings) as Mason's, his RS frosh and sophomores should be making more penetration into the starting lineup by now. Finally, the new stadium is a recruiting tool and a homefield advantage that Mason didn't have. Hence, I think you've got what you've got now. I don't think giving him beyond next year to succeed will be of much help.

He didn't decide to go the JUCO route, he was pretty much forced to because we had such little talent. JUCO's are not always ready to play right away and even though it is college, it's still a huge jump to D1. And it's not like we have a ton of JUCO's on the roster anyways.

A good amount of younger players were playing late in the season. Our entire WR group was young, Whaley got the most plays at RB, Michael Carter became our starting CB, Cooper played a lot at LB, and Kirksey and Edwards played a bunch at DT. You just can't expect every freshman to just come in right away and play well, no matter how talented they are. Redshirting a lot of guys like Maresh is the right thing to do. Patience!

This isn't the NFL. It takes time to turn things around. Don't know if Brewster will get it done or not, but if we're hiring a new coach every 3 or 4 years, then we'll never be a top program.

[gophermartin]

If so...good for the Gophers.

But as usual Maturi...whiffed on the timing...should have happened right on or around Thanksgiving.

GM

[MNCH]

Our starting LB's were a 2 star (Campbell) 3 star (Tripplett) 4 star (Lawrence, who was a Brewster Guy) Next year we will start a 4 star, a 4 star, and a 3 star, with 3 stars as backups.

So this year, Notre Dame started one 5* player, seven 4* players and three 3* players. With all those stars, how can you explain them finishing 87th in Total Defense? 90th in Rushing Defense? 81st in Pass Defense? 64th in Scoring Defense?

[dpodoll68]

This is dishonest. In Mason's third year he had an 8-4 record, a win over top 5 PSU, a win over rival Iowa, and a national ranking to finish the season. Brewster has accomplished none of those. And Mason inherited a team that hadn't been to a bowl in over a decade, unlike Brewster.

Mason also had 14 future NFL players on the field. How many did Brewster have this past season?

[Radio Badger]

The Zook model has worked well, He has already been to the Rose Bowl.


Ask the folks in Chambana how they feel about the Zook model right about now. He might have gone to a Rose Bowl (after a 9-3 season, by the way, and the lowest ranking of an at-large BCS team), but he's also fallen flat on his face since.

[GopherGod]

So this year, Notre Dame started one 5* player, seven 4* players and three 3* players. With all those stars, how can you explain them finishing 87th in Total Defense? 90th in Rushing Defense? 81st in Pass Defense? 64th in Scoring Defense?

Considering bankonit hasn't even seen the majority of the players listed play a down of college football, yet is certain they are better than the previous players based on stars alone. I guess according to him we can then just skip the games and award the national championship based on Rivals ranking.

[bankonit]

Ask the folks in Chambana how they feel about the Zook model right about now. He might have gone to a Rose Bowl (after a 9-3 season, by the way, and the lowest ranking of an at-large BCS team), but he's also fallen flat on his face since.

If Zook leaves Illinois in the same shape he left Florida Illinois should erect a statue of him. That will mean Illinois will be poised to compete for National Championships. Urban Meyer won Championships thanks to Ron Zook.

[bankonit]

Considering bankonit hasn't even seen the majority of the players listed play a down of college football, yet is certain they are better than the previous players based on stars alone. I guess according to him we can then just skip the games and award the national championship based on Rivals ranking.

I know you won't like to admit it but the rivals rankings and the BCS rankings do have a coloration. It is not an exact science but class ranking and success are related to each other. Did anyone ever see Lebron James play a minute of College ball? yet NBA scouts knew he was great.

[Maximus]

Our starting LB's were a 2 star (Campbell) 3 star (Tripplett) 4 star (Lawrence, who was a Brewster Guy) Next year we will start a 4 star, a 4 star, and a 3 star, with 3 stars as backups.

I'll take two-star Decker over any 3-4 star in the country.

[MNBadgerGuy]

Rivals loves people like bankonit. They appreciate the $100/a year, bank.

[bassy123]

I'll take two-star Decker over any 3-4 star in the country.

julio jones?
a.j. green?
dez bryant?
michael floyd?
golden tate?

[lakesgopher]

when we're 5-7 next year with another year of terrible offense it will be obvious that Maturi will let him go.

The program is in the same place it was when Mason left.....average. Much better talent under Brew, but much worse coaching. I was really hopeful when Brew took over, but midway through this season I could see the writing on the wall. He's done...it's just a matter of time. Should have fired him after the Iowa game, now we're just spinning our wheels for another year.

i disagree! the current program is not in the same position as it was under mason. under mason we wouldnt have any hype or expectations by the fans! we also didnt have any direction, mason made it very clear he was not going to try to make our program into something that could contend for a big ten title! he lacked in effort in recruiting and he always hoped he could land a better job coming. we would hope for a 7-8 win season based solely on beating 4 horrible teams and beating northwestern and indiana and hoping we could knock off mich st as well as purdue! i think its cute how mason supporters now think he was some great x's and o's guy when he was not competitive at all in the big ten, look up his record! he was not good against wisconsin or iowa and he virtually told the state of minny that our top recruits should go someplace else becausewe werent a top tier program! mason never reached for the stars and now that we have a coach who does he has built expectations that nearly none of us had 5 years ago! we have an over the top mr positive in brew who has nearly repaired minny high school coaches relationships with the U as well as the fact he goes to these kids and workds his ass off to bring them to Minnesota. the whole atmosphere around campus has been better and it will continue to grow because we have a plan! so in my mind attitude and talent is what is different now! mason sucked as a coach in the major conference level! if he didnt he would be holding a clipboard making a hell of a lot more cash then he does at the moment!

[lakesgopher]

I'll take two-star Decker over any 3-4 star in the country.

usually 2 star recievers like decker pop up all over the country. he is the exception not the standard! another reason why the star systems are sometimes proven to be completely wrong and shouldnt be taken so seriously all the time.

[bankonit]

I'll take two-star Decker over any 3-4 star in the country.

Really? You take him over Golden Tate, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, Percy Harvin, Michael Crabtree, Desean Jackson? Because NFL scouts may disagree with you. These are all guys Decker's age or younger.

[GopherGod]

I know you won't like to admit it but the rivals rankings and the BCS rankings do have a coloration. It is not an exact science but class ranking and success are related to each other. Did anyone ever see Lebron James play a minute of College ball? yet NBA scouts knew he was great.

I guess that TCU, Boise State, Notre Dame, etc.. didn't get the memo that Rivals rankings foreshadow their success or failure. I am surprised that college football coaches could even do their job before Rivals existed, afterall I am sure that former sports writer/video coordinator is a better evaluator of talent than a actual coach versus a has been or a never was.

[MNCH]

I guess that TCU, Boise State, Notre Dame, etc.. didn't get the memo that Rivals rankings foreshadow their success or failure. I am surprised that college football coaches could even do their job before Rivals existed, afterall I am sure that former sports writer/video coordinator is a better evaluator of talent than a actual coach versus a has been or a never was.

Very nice! :clap:

[Maximus]

Really? You take him over Golden Tate, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, Percy Harvin, Michael Crabtree, Desean Jackson? Because NFL scouts may disagree with you. These are all guys Decker's age or younger.

Yes

[MNCH]

If Zook leaves Illinois in the same shape he left Florida Illinois should erect a statue of him. That will mean Illinois will be poised to compete for National Championships. Urban Meyer won Championships thanks to Ron Zook.

So all of Alabama's success over the past two years can be credited to Mike Shula? Wonder why he doesn't have a job right now:confused:

[highwayman]

This is dishonest. In Mason's third year he had an 8-4 record, a win over top 5 PSU, a win over rival Iowa, and a national ranking to finish the season. Brewster has accomplished none of those. And Mason inherited a team that hadn't been to a bowl in over a decade, unlike Brewster.

I also don't think the "5 year rule" should apply to Brewster. He decided to go the JUCO route, and these guys are upperclassmen ready to play right away. Maybe not D1 experienced, but physically mature and playing at the college level. Hence, he should be seeing earlier results. In addition, if his recruting classes are twice as good (by the rankings) as Mason's, his RS frosh and sophomores should be making more penetration into the starting lineup by now. Finally, the new stadium is a recruiting tool and a homefield advantage that Mason didn't have. Hence, I think you've got what you've got now. I don't think giving him beyond next year to succeed will be of much help.

And that team had a defense anchored by Wacker recruits (Middlebrooks, Schlect, Anderle, Mezera, Jones)--it went all downhill on defense after that and our offense merely switched from pass-happy to run happy.

Mason didn't have the tool and was a tool. He hated recruiting and rarely did it in person. Mason lucked out with Maroney and Barber. Maroney was better than scouted (by every team in the country) and Barber was recruited to play d-back. Mason "cheaped out" with the O-line and lucked out with Eslinger and Setterstrom--big time.

The "JUCO" route is only a couple of players. This route aso keeps you from throwing true freshman into the fire and wasting a year of eligibilty.

Our current team's defense will improve every year and the offense WILL get much better as the recruits start to play.

[howeda7]

And that team had a defense anchored by Wacker recruits (Middlebrooks, Schlect, Anderle, Mezera, Jones)--it went all downhill on defense after that and our offense merely switched from pass-happy to run happy.

Mason didn't have the tool and was a tool. He hated recruiting and rarely did it in person. Mason lucked out with Maroney and Barber. Maroney was better than scouted (by every team in the country) and Barber was recruited to play d-back. Mason "cheaped out" with the O-line and lucked out with Eslinger and Setterstrom--big time.

The "JUCO" route is only a couple of players. This route aso keeps you from throwing true freshman into the fire and wasting a year of eligibilty.

Our current team's defense will improve every year and the offense WILL get much better as the recruits start to play.

It's amazing how when Mason got recruits it was 'luck' but when Brewster gets them it's because he's a wonderful recruiter. Spare me. Brewster is indeed a better recruiter but not by nearly the margin some of you make him out to be. Mason's classes were usually in the 50's if the rankings matter. That's not good, but it could be worse. Brew's have been in the 30's the last two year's and this year's 30's ranking is sliding by the day and it's his own fault. At any rate, the current improvement in recruiting is 100% offset by inability to choose an offensive system and a general inability to coach on gameday. God willing maybe both of things can magically fix themselves.

[Bo Darville]

Gee, I wonder if Alabama and Texas are teams full of two star players from North Dakota?

[Ole]

It's amazing how when Mason got recruits it was 'luck' but when Brewster gets them it's because he's a wonderful recruiter. Spare me. Brewster is indeed a better recruiter but not by nearly the margin some of you make him out to be. Mason's classes were usually in the 50's if the rankings matter. That's not good, but it could be worse. Brew's have been in the 30's the last two year's and this year's 30's ranking is sliding by the day and it's his own fault. At any rate, the current improvement in recruiting is 100% offset by inability to choose an offensive system and a general inability to coach on gameday. God willing maybe both of things can magically fix themselves.

I don't want to highjack this thread, but this statement is completely off. Our recruiting under Mason was horrible, absolutely horrible. The "rankings" don't matter, the stars don't matter, the talent and depth does matter, as does the effort in scouting and selling the program to the recruits.
Hate to :horse:, but the 05 and 06 recruits were pathetic. How many actually are still with the program, not many, how many actually contributed, not many.

And yes, I'll go ahead and say it, it WAS luck alot of the time with Mason, he sure as hell didn't work hard at it, so it must have been a blind squirrel approach.
Barber almost didn't even get an offer, and when he did it was to play DB. Decker almost went to St. Johns, but since Cold Spring wasn't that far away, Mason actually was able to go recruit him, Brewster does the same thing but he make home visits in Texas and Florida. Not just up 94.
Eslinger, was a kid from the Dakotas who came out of no where to attend a camp and ended up being a prototype for the zone scheme. We've got freshmen and sophs playing serious minutes this year and will have a seriously young and talented team next year.

[Schnoodler]

I'm not trying to troll at all here, but you really need to pay a little less attention to stars. Just last season, the Badgers had two linebackers who were wonderful as freshmen that were a two-star (Chris Borland) and a three-star (Mike Taylor). Taylor was great before going down with a knee injury and Borland was only the best freshman in the conference. While you generally would like to have higher-caliber players, I can tell you that there are plenty of blue chip busts.

If the upgrades were as obvious as you say they are, wouldn't these guys have gotten a little more time this year?

If you looked at overall team strength by using a rolling four year rivals picture, you'd see that Wiscy finished in the big Ten right where their recruiting suggested they should. And so did the gophers. The beauty in this is that until this past week, we were trending up and wisconsin was trending down.

To sum up, the rivals rankings are far more predictive than people want to believe. This should scare badgers everywhere.

[Iceland12]

I guess that TCU, Boise State, Notre Dame, etc.. didn't get the memo that Rivals rankings foreshadow their success or failure. I am surprised that college football coaches could even do their job before Rivals existed, afterall I am sure that former sports writer/video coordinator is a better evaluator of talent than a actual coach versus a has been or a never was.

Well maybe you should be comparing the ratings for a school against the ratings of teams they actually play.

You're right about Notre Dame but if Boise State didn't have a schedule with Oregon (ok), the Miami of Ohio, Fresno State, UC Davis, Tulsa, Hawaii, San Jose State, La Tech, Idaho, Utah State, Nevada and New Mexico State how many of those undefeated or 10 win seasons do you think they'd be putting-up? Though their coaches can seem to get them up for the two games a year when they DO play teams with better talent.

TCU? They have two BCS schools (Clemson and Virginia) on their schedule rather then one. BYU also is an opponent.

My word, Glen Mason or maybe even Sunny Jim would have been ICONS around here if they got to play those schedules every year. Glen actually tried to thoigh didn't he.

Maybe the Moderators should just re-post the "Star Rating" thread every couple of weeks. Memories around here seem to get shorter and shorter. :eek:

[howeda7]

I don't want to highjack this thread, but this statement is completely off. Our recruiting under Mason was horrible, absolutely horrible. The "rankings" don't matter, the stars don't matter, the talent and depth does matter, as does the effort in scouting and selling the program to the recruits.
Hate to :horse:, but the 05 and 06 recruits were pathetic. How many actually are still with the program, not many, how many actually contributed, not many.

And yes, I'll go ahead and say it, it WAS luck alot of the time with Mason, he sure as hell didn't work hard at it, so it must have been a blind squirrel approach.
Barber almost didn't even get an offer, and when he did it was to play DB. Decker almost went to St. Johns, but since Cold Spring wasn't that far away, Mason actually was able to go recruit him, Brewster does the same thing but he make home visits in Texas and Florida. Not just up 94.
Eslinger, was a kid from the Dakotas who came out of no where to attend a camp and ended up being a prototype for the zone scheme. We've got freshmen and sophs playing serious minutes this year and will have a seriously young and talented team next year.

I'm not targeting you specifically, but the those of you harping Brew's recruiting can't have it both ways. The reality is that Mason's last two classes however 'horrible' you say they were ended up ranked in the 50's, but you tell me that "rankings and stars don't matter."

Yet Brewster's recruiting ability so far is only really backed by "rankings and stars." He had a top 20 class. That's impressive. Then a high 30's. OK. Now one that is clinging to the 30's but will likely fall further and not be that far above where Mason was. Niether of the two that are in-house have contributed yet. But based on the "rankings and stars" we have to give him more time because surely great things are ahead. Other schools in the Big 10 have freshman and sophmores from these two classes on All-Conference teams. We don't. The "talent and depth" haven't shown themselves yet. But he needs more time based on his "rankings and stars." So which is it? Do they matter or not?

[Ole]

Well maybe you should be comparing the ratings for a school against the ratings of teams they actually play.

You're right about Notre Dame but if Boise State didn't have a schedule with Oregon (ok), the Miami of Ohio, Fresno State, UC Davis, Tulsa, Hawaii, San Jose State, La Tech, Idaho, Utah State, Nevada and New Mexico State how many of those undefeated or 10 win seasons do you think they'd be putting-up? Though their coaches can seem to get them up for the two games a year when they DO play teams with better talent.

TCU? They have two BCS schools (Clemson and Virginia) on their schedule rather then one. BYU also is an opponent.

My word, Glen Mason or maybe even Sunny Jim would have been ICONS around here if they got to play those schedules every year. Glen actually tried to thoigh didn't he.

Maybe the Moderators should just re-post the "Star Rating" thread every couple of weeks. Memories around here seem to get shorter and shorter. :eek:

+1, include a preseason prediction thread also please:D

[GopherGod]

Well maybe you should be comparing the ratings for a school against the ratings of teams they actually play.

You're right about Notre Dame but if Boise State didn't have a schedule with Oregon (ok), the Miami of Ohio, Fresno State, UC Davis, Tulsa, Hawaii, San Jose State, La Tech, Idaho, Utah State, Nevada and New Mexico State how many of those undefeated or 10 win seasons do you think they'd be putting-up? Though their coaches can seem to get them up for the two games a year when they DO play teams with better talent.

TCU? They have two BCS schools (Clemson and Virginia) on their schedule rather then one. BYU also is an opponent.

My word, Glen Mason or maybe even Sunny Jim would have been ICONS around here if they got to play those schedules every year. Glen actually tried to thoigh didn't he.

Maybe the Moderators should just re-post the "Star Rating" thread every couple of weeks. Memories around here seem to get shorter and shorter. :eek:

TCU does play Utah and Air Force as well and the weaker teams they did play they blew most of them out as a great team does, but regardless they can only play those teams that will play them and I know for a fact from a former assistant AD there (now at South Carolina) that TCU has had difficulty getting the major BCS programs to play them. Many of the major programs are afraid of losing to them and if they beat them then it is a case of they should have won anyways. Boise State has publicly stated having this same difficulty as well.

[gopher pops]

I'm not targeting you specifically, but the those of you harping Brew's recruiting can't have it both ways. The reality is that Mason's last two classes however 'horrible' you say they were ended up ranked in the 50's, but you tell me that "rankings and stars don't matter."

Yet Brewster's recruiting ability so far is only really backed by "rankings and stars." He had a top 20 class. That's impressive. Then a high 30's. OK. Now one that is clinging to the 30's but will likely fall further and not be that far above where Mason was. Niether of the two that are in-house have contributed yet. But based on the "rankings and stars" we have to give him more time because surely great things are ahead. Other schools in the Big 10 have freshman and sophmores from these two classes on All-Conference teams. We don't. The "talent and depth" haven't shown themselves yet. But he needs more time based on his "rankings and stars." So which is it? Do they matter or not?

We do have a player listed on 4 all frosh teams most particular steel's all frosh team

[bankonit]

I'm not targeting you specifically, but the those of you harping Brew's recruiting can't have it both ways. The reality is that Mason's last two classes however 'horrible' you say they were ended up ranked in the 50's, but you tell me that "rankings and stars don't matter."

Yet Brewster's recruiting ability so far is only really backed by "rankings and stars." He had a top 20 class. That's impressive. Then a high 30's. OK. Now one that is clinging to the 30's but will likely fall further and not be that far above where Mason was. Niether of the two that are in-house have contributed yet. But based on the "rankings and stars" we have to give him more time because surely great things are ahead. Other schools in the Big 10 have freshman and sophmores from these two classes on All-Conference teams. We don't. The "talent and depth" haven't shown themselves yet. But he needs more time based on his "rankings and stars." So which is it? Do they matter or not?

Your post makes no sense.

[Schnoodler]

There are people who have established themselves as Trolls of one variety or another. Play with them if you want, but it's never worth an attempt at a serious discussion.

[Iceland12]

TCU does play Utah and Air Force as well and the weaker teams they did play they blew most of them out as a great team does, but regardless they can only play those teams that will play them and I know for a fact from a former assistant AD there (now at South Carolina) that TCU has had difficulty getting the major BCS programs to play them. Many of the major programs are afraid of losing to them and if they beat them then it is a case of they should have won anyways. Boise State has publicly stated having this same difficulty as well.

Yeah, they're making quite the effort.:p They won't agree to an equal payout Home and Home and the Boise State offer to play "anywhere" was contingent on getting a $1,000,000 payout!:eek: Let them go the Florida State route and then get back to me.

But thanks for playing!

[howeda7]

We do have a player listed on 4 all frosh teams most particular steel's all frosh team

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

[howeda7]

Your post makes no sense.

Read the post it was referring to. I was simply pointing out that Mason's last two recruiting classes were still ranked in the 50's even though he was saying they were 'terrible' and was told that 'rankings don't matter.' Yet that's one of the main defenses for Brewster is how much he has improved the rankings of our recruitng classes. It seemed hypocritical to me, that is all.

[minngg]

None of Mase's recruiting was lucky. He earned every bad class he got. Never once did he beat Wisconsin and Iowa in recruiting. He got what he deserved. Mediocrity.

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Samsonite, Maturi said this morning on the radio that no extension has been made, he's hopeful after the bowl game, yada, yada, yada. Not trying to prove you wrong, just want to get your thoughts on this?

[Bob_Loblaw]

Our linebackers for three. Our Def. front line for some more. Our TE. Get the picture?


Only two of our linebackers were Mason guys (Lawrence was a JuCo Brewster guy). I think most people who have followed the Gophers are actually really excited about the future of our linebacker position. Cooper and Tinsley will both be a lot better than Campbell and Triplett.

As our defensive front goes....I have a hard time believing you will be whistling this tune in a couple years when our defensive front is Hageman/Garin-Kirksey-Edwards-KGM/Wilhite.

The only Jr's and Sr's who will be difficult to replace are Tow-Arnett and Decker. Wow...two players on an entire team.

[Schnoodler]

Only two of our linebackers were Mason guys (Lawrence was a JuCo Brewster guy). I think most people who have followed the Gophers are actually really excited about the future of our linebacker position. Cooper and Tinsley will both be a lot better than Campbell and Triplett.

As our defensive front goes....I have a hard time believing you will be whistling this tune in a couple years when our defensive front is Hageman/Garin-Kirksey-Edwards-KGM/Wilhite.

The only Jr's and Sr's who will be difficult to replace are Tow-Arnett and Decker. Wow...two players on an entire team.

don't forget jacobs.

[harrys ghost]

Read the post it was referring to. I was simply pointing out that Mason's last two recruiting classes were still ranked in the 50's even though he was saying they were 'terrible' and was told that 'rankings don't matter.' Yet that's one of the main defenses for Brewster is how much he has improved the rankings of our recruitng classes. It seemed hypocritical to me, that is all.

Actually, 55 and 62 -- but who's keeping track? Another point that was brought up earlier is that these classes have had high attrition rates. For example, it looks like 8 out of 20 made it through in the 2005 class and 8 out of 22 in the 2006 class. That trend appears to be changing. There were 28 players signed in the 2008 class, 24 of which are still on the team.

[Schnoodler]

One school of thought is that players who are over matched don't stick around. It's no fun to suck. Mason's recruiting was a bit like throwing mud at the wall, finding lower ranked kids with the right size and hoping a few would stick. It's a good strategy if you truly can't compete for the better recruits. It was the reality when mason took over, that changed during his ten years, he just didn't change his approach to reflect the new opportunity.

[magpie]

Average recruits stars per rivals:

2005: 2.67 - 8th
2006: 2.33 - 9th
2007: 2.46 - 10th

2008: 3.07 - 3rd
2009: 3.05 - 4th
2010: 3.00 - 7th

Brewster's recruiting has been rather consistent, but look how it ranks vs the Big Ten. We've gotten more talent, but if other teams have too -- we need to coach/execute better as well. Talent won't equate directly to wins in this case.

Just an observation, since we've focused mostly on total points when judging recruiting.

[BadBrew]

Average recruits stars per rivals:

2005: 2.67 - 8th
2006: 2.33 - 9th
2007: 2.46 - 10th

2008: 3.07 - 3rd
2009: 3.05 - 4th
2010: 3.00 - 7th

Brewster's recruiting has been rather consistent, but look how it ranks vs the Big Ten. We've gotten more talent, but if other teams have too -- we need to coach/execute better as well. Talent won't equate directly to wins in this case.

Just an observation, since we've focused mostly on total points when judging recruiting.

Well stated.

[tikited]

Only two of our linebackers were Mason guys (Lawrence was a JuCo Brewster guy). I think most people who have followed the Gophers are actually really excited about the future of our linebacker position. Cooper and Tinsley will both be a lot better than Campbell and Triplett.

As our defensive front goes....I have a hard time believing you will be whistling this tune in a couple years when our defensive front is Hageman/Garin-Kirksey-Edwards-KGM/Wilhite.

The only Jr's and Sr's who will be difficult to replace are Tow-Arnett and Decker. Wow...two players on an entire team.

I'm not sure if you read my reply correctly. The statement was that all of our Jr's and Sr's are garbage. I replied that is not true and listed several examples to prove it. Not sure how you got that I don't think our future players won't be better than that? I think many of our younger players will be better than good. The original poster (forgot the trolls name) insulted the jr's and sr's on the team, do you agree with him?

[bankonit]

I'm not sure if you read my reply correctly. The statement was that all of our Jr's and Sr's are garbage. I replied that is not true and listed several examples to prove it. Not sure how you got that I don't think our future players won't be better than that? I think many of our younger players will be better than good. The original poster (forgot the trolls name) insulted the jr's and sr's on the team, do you agree with him?

garbage is a relative term, our jr's and sr's are garbage when compared to say Texas' upperclassmen or Florida's, or USC's. Besides Decker our upperclassman are marginally better than many DII players and that does not cut it. Now with the arrival of James Green, we are better at every position than we were last year.

[Doogie]

How are they better at WR and MLB? Will Green get into school? And if so, he didn't play anywhere last year ... he looks the part, but I think we need to be careful in anointing him the next great thing. It'll be tough to convince me at WR after losing Decker. Also Cooper should be eventually, but I'm not sure that next year he is better than Lawrence. Also better at TE?

[bankonit]

How are they better at WR and MLB? Will Green get into school? And if so, he didn't play anywhere last year ... he looks the part, but I think we need to be careful in anointing him the next great thing. It'll be tough to convince me at WR after losing Decker. Also Cooper should be eventually, but I'm not sure that next year he is better than Lawrence. Also better at TE?

Better at WR by Green and Green both being 4 star athletes and Brandon Green being more experienced. Dajon Mcknight will get better year after year because he did not play much high school ball but is very talented, and Allen and Troy S are both play makers. Decker in some cases held the receiving corp back by Weber forcing the ball to him and not giving the others time to shine. The line backers are all more talented than Tripplet and Campbell, those two gave us one year of productivity in their careers. Cooper will be all Big Ten and Tinsley, Maresh and Reeves will be more than productive. Tow Arnett definitely overachieved during his career and was a nice story but by no means is hard to replace.

[Doogie]

Brandon Green has shown us little through two seasons ... the new Green kid looks super, but let's wait on him getting into school first ... Maresh hasn't taken a live snap in years, and Campbell was solid, so hard to see an upgrade there ... I'll grant you Tinsley over Triplett, but Triplett had a nice year ... and which TE is then going to be better than Tow-Arnett?

[maxwellsmart]

when we're 5-7 next year with another year of terrible offense it will be obvious that Maturi will let him go.

The program is in the same place it was when Mason left.....average. Much better talent under Brew, but much worse coaching. I was really hopeful when Brew took over, but midway through this season I could see the writing on the wall. He's done...it's just a matter of time. Should have fired him after the Iowa game, now we're just spinning our wheels for another year.

So is your lead sentence what you think will happen or what you want to happen? I'm beginning to find this rush to football Armageddon a bit disturbing.