Kent's blog: Brewster says Carter to play Saturday

[gopherguy05]

He said Brewster did not divulge how the matter was handled internally, but Carter will be playing Saturday against Illinois.

[Maximus]

I promise to never comment on how Iowa/Wisconsin, etc. punish their athletes from this point forward.

Beat Illinois! Orlando or San Antonio please!

[JackiO]

I promise to never comment on how Iowa/Wisconsin, etc. punish their athletes from this point forward.

Beat Illinois! Orlando or San Antonio please!

ha ha unbelievable isn't it.

[Too Long in the Wasteland]

Maybe Brewster has some inside info that this is much ado about nothing (a.k.a D-weed cop). OTOH, maybe he pulls an Urban Meyer and Carter spends the first half of the SDSU Jackrabbit game folding towels.

[gophermartin]

maybe more to the story than we know.

Still dumb move on many levels if true about Carter.

[JackiO]

Can you "handle" the situation after the season is over?

[gophermartin]

I think serving drinks to Chris Voelz would be punishment enough for 2 quarters of the game. :-)

Oh how I disliked her!

[Too Long in the Wasteland]

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit reading that. Problem is he could only fulfill that punishment during a night game, as her kind can't be in direct sunlight. I wonder where Darth Voelz is nowadays?

P.S. I agree with you that regardless of the legality of Carter's situation, he displayed an amazing lack of grey matter throughout this episode. You never mouth off to a cop, as they always get the last word.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Maybe the holier then thou, Punky is a stern disciplanarian and ______________ is not garbage will end now.

Then again, it probably won't.

Surprised the AD does not have a policy on this. At Wisconsin, he would have been immediatley suspended per AD policy.

please! :clap:

suspended from what? running bert bielema's errands for a couple days? a day of practice? maybe told to run some wind sprints or hills? or maybe he would have to sit out the first defensive series against cal poly in 2014? which one? :rolleyes:

[Khaliq]

You never mouth off to a cop, as they always get the last word.What's described is a bit more than just mouthing off.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/68637447.html
According to the University of Minnesota police report, Carter, 18, and Gophers teammate Kenny Watkins, 18, a freshman defensive back, were observed trying to pick a fight with two other males outside of Mesa Pizza just before midnight Sunday. Carter was seen removing his coat and throwing it on the ground, then raising both fists in a fighting stance, the report said. Watkins then raised his fists.

The other two males appeared to be afraid, and kept walking as Carter and Watkins attempted to surround them, according to the police report. The other males kept walking, and Carter and Watkins eventually turned and went inside Mesa Pizza. The officer at the scene interviewed the other two males, who said Carter and Watkins were attempting to pick a fight with them.

The officer requested back-up, and when another officer arrived both went inside Mesa Pizza and took the two players outside. Watkins complied with instructions for a pat search, but Carter refused to put his hands on a wall, and when an officer grabbed his arm, attempting to throw him to the ground, Carter spun around. Both officers then attempted to get control of Carter, who continued to resist the officers even as several additional Gophers football players came outside and yelled at him to stop.

One of the officers removed a taser gun and pointed it at Carter's chest, according to the report. The player was ultimately wrestled to the ground, handcuffed and taken to the Hennepin County jail.

Carter was given a PBT test for alcohol, and registered .055.Carter is of course entitled to due process, but if there are corroborating witnesses to this then I don't agree with the decision to let him play. It's more than just getting drunk it's refusing to comply with an officer's instructions and physically resisting arrest. That's inexcusable even if the cop was a dick, which hasn't even been suggested from any reports so far.

I also find the accusation that he and Watkins attempted to surround the guys who were trying to walk away troubling. Dudes need to tone down their testosterone and use their heads.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

What's described is a bit more than just mouthing off.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/68637447.htmlCarter is of course entitled to due process, but if there are corroborating witnesses to this then I don't agree with the decision to let him play. It's more than just getting drunk it's refusing to comply with an officer's instructions and physically resisting arrest. That's inexcusable even if the cop was a dick, which hasn't even been suggested from any reports so far.

I also find the accusation that he and Watkins attempted to surround the guys who were trying to walk away troubling. Dudes need to tone down their testosterone and use their heads.

that is fine that you don't agree (not surprised), but in the end it isn't your, or my, or anyone else's decision whether or not he plays. it is up to coach brewster and joel maturi. obviously they feel he should be able to play.

i have no problem with him suiting up. based on the police report there seemed to be some antagonistic actions by the umpd that helped escalate the whole situation to a level it really didn’t need to go to.

[FiveStarFan]

A suspension against SDSU might be in order ;)

[GoAUpher]

Maybe the holier then thou, Punky is a stern disciplanarian and ______________ is not garbage will end now.

Then again, it probably won't.

Surprised the AD does not have a policy on this. At Wisconsin, he would have been immediatley suspended per AD policy.

UW would suspend players over misdemeanors? Minnesota suspends you for felonies automatically (that was what the whole Mbakwe stuff was about) and it sounds like that is what you are referring to at UW but I sincerely doubt either school has a rule on the books that suspends automatically based on misdemeanors.

Not saying he shouldn't be suspended (we could at least pull a Florida and take away a half), just saying I think the fact that these are lesser charges legally might have something to do with it not being so automatic.

[HLGopher]

.055? This is a case of a kid getting drunk for the first time. It only took a couple beers.

Hopefully he learned his lesson via humiliation.

[Khaliq]

that is fine that you don't agree (not surprised), but in the end it isn't your, or my, or anyone else's decision whether or not he plays. it is up to coach brewster and joel maturi. obviously they feel he should be able to play.

i have no problem with him suiting up. based on the police report there seemed to be some antagonistic actions by the umpd that helped escalate the whole situation to a level it really didn’t need to go to.Well, I guess my problem is that we don't even need him this week. Sitting him would send a strong, good message about the accountability Brew expects from players. I think it's a fair point and I'm disappointed they don't see it that way.

I'm not going to turn it into a huge, enduring issue or anything. I just think it's the wrong move.

[Plinnius]

Surprised the AD does not have a policy on this. At Wisconsin, he would have been immediatley suspended per AD policy.

The game against Illinois is a home game.

[Khaliq]

I would like GVBadger to be suspended from posting per GH policy.

[Iceland12]

The game against Illinois is a home game.

:drink:

[howeda7]

I sense Brew being much more lax then Tubby and I don't like it. Combine this incident with Whaley's being 'handled internally' with the complete lack of discipline on the field and I am quite concerned about Brewster's handle on this football team. He should have been suspended for a minimum of two games, period and so should Whaley. This 'handled internally' stuff is BS. The only thing that matters to these guys is playing time. Any other punishment you dish out is small potatoes.

[GVBadger]

The game against Illinois is a home game.

Missing the point, as usual.

I have no idea why the administration suspended him for away games. That was the decision they made. Agree with it, disagree with it, whatever.

The point is the holier then thou crap does not work anymore. Simple as that. Not that it ever did, but it is quite clear now.

[Gold Vision]

Funny stuff.

The facts are different. Believe what you want.

Just no more holier then thou Punky stuff. It does not fly.

You should write an email to the startribune about it.

[paulser21]

.055? This is a case of a kid getting drunk for the first time. It only took a couple beers.

Hopefully he learned his lesson via humiliation.


And technically .055 is not considered legally drunk (.08 in the case of driving). Although when people get intoxicated for the first time, which may or may not be the case here, then even having a low level of intoxication could cause him to act in such a manner.

That being said I cannot believe that no discipline in the form of lost playing time has been handed out yet.

[Khaliq]

Punky, GVBadger? Really? Really? Your wit is a step below Bronko's.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

You should write an email to the startribune about it.

yeah, let us know what they say. make sure and tell them you are from golden valley too! :rolleyes:

[SunGopher]

Welcome to big time college football and the way those programs are run. Agree or not, that's the way it is.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

I sense Brew being much more lax then Tubby and I don't like it. Combine this incident with Whaley's being 'handled internally' with the complete lack of discipline on the field and I am quite concerned about Brewster's handle on this football team. He should have been suspended for a minimum of two games, period and so should Whaley. This 'handled internally' stuff is BS. The only thing that matters to these guys is playing time. Any other punishment you dish out is small potatoes.

i am quite concerned about your "handle" on reality. stop being so dramatic! some of you basketball posters are too much. :rolleyes:

[frozengopher]

based on the police report there seemed to be some antagonistic actions by the umpd that helped escalate the whole situation to a level it really didn’t need to go to.

I think you should change that whole statement to, "based on what I read from the Star Tribune and my primal urge to believe that police officers are antagonistic, the umpd helped escalate the whole situation to a level it really didn't need to go."

The police report was vanilla. An officer will never intelligently write anything about themselves that will bring their actions into question (Maybe in the south) Everything they do is procedural or in reaction to another's actions, and it may be hard to believe, but they do have significant training. Considering the force continuum and Carter's actions, use of a takedown and wielding a taser were acceptable means to gain compliance.

If you think all cops are out to get someone, quit kidding yourself. The amount of education to get a police job in this state requires a 2 year degree and pretty much necessitates a 4 year degree because of competition. I don't think anyone with a grudge is going to consider it worth the tens of thousands of dollars. Also, law enforcement is far from the good 'ol boy system it used to be. It's a profession. Quit watching tv and basing your opinions on it.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Punky, GVBadger? Really? Really? Your wit is a step below Bronko's.

coming from professor know-it-all, i take that as a sincere compliment! ;)

[Khaliq]

coming from professor know-it-all, i take that as a sincere compliment! ;)haha, we tight bronko. I'm just having fun with you.

[skiumah2]

I would like GVBadger to be suspended from posting per GH policy.
Agreed. If GVBadger wants to come to our board and defend the Badgers or take part in a legitimate debate that's fine. However, his backhanded insults and indirect disrespect is getting old. You're not the worst I've seen GVB, but if you want to refer to our coach as "Punky", go over to buckyville for that garbage. I'm not sure a suspension is in order unless he's already been warned once. That being said, this has been going on for a while now. I don't think we should be putting up with any poster that shows our coach that much disrespect.

[howeda7]

i am quite concerned about your "handle" on reality. stop being so dramatic! some of you basketball posters are too much. :rolleyes:

Ah yes. One has to either be a 'basketball poster' or a 'football poster' right? Is that like being a basketball school or a football school? I know which one Minnesota is.

I have no idea what Royce and Bostic did, but we have our well-respected basketball coach coming down on them hard. In the other case, we have a football player at minimum making a public spectacle of himself and at worst resisting arrest and our 'all-hat, no cattle' football coach 'handling it internally' just as he supposedly did for Whaley and who knows who else. Forgive me if I questions his judgement a bit more then Tubby Smith's. While not directly related, seeing us get repeated personal foul calls and players screaming at coaches on the sideline, and you might see how one could be a bit concerned about Brewster's control of his team.

[Dr.Don]

I think serving drinks to Chris Voelz would be punishment enough for 2 quarters of the game. :-)

Oh how I disliked her!

Better yet, serving to Jan Ganglehoff. :)

[mittens22]

No suspension? I don't know about this. Regardless of the "fighting" situation he still was drinking and received a minor. I'd say a suspension is needed for the drinking violation for sure and I'll hold judgment until hearing more about the glorified argument.

[SelectionSunday]

Bronko, you're priceless. Stop for a minute and listen to yourself. Do you ever think a Minnesota athlete does anything wrong? Passing the blame on the to the UMPD is bush league. Put away the pom poms once in a great while.

[Khaliq]

Ah yes. One has to either be a 'basketball poster' or a 'football poster' right? Is that like being a basketball school or a football school? I know which one Minnesota is.A hockey school!

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

I think you should change that whole statement to, "based on what I read from the Star Tribune and my primal urge to believe that police officers are antagonistic, the umpd helped escalate the whole situation to a level it really didn't need to go."

The police report was vanilla. An officer will never intelligently write anything about themselves that will bring their actions into question (Maybe in the south) Everything they do is procedural or in reaction to another's actions, and it may be hard to believe, but they do have significant training. Considering the force continuum and Carter's actions, use of a takedown and wielding a taser were acceptable means to gain compliance.

If you think all cops are out to get someone, quit kidding yourself. The amount of education to get a police job in this state requires a 2 year degree and pretty much necessitates a 4 year degree because of competition. I don't think anyone with a grudge is going to consider it worth the tens of thousands of dollars. Also, law enforcement is far from the good 'ol boy system it used to be. It's a profession. Quit watching tv and basing your opinions on it.

but, i love tv! cops on fox is my favorite! ;)

[PigAxeJug]

I agree with everything Khaliq has said in this thread so far! I guess there really is a first for everything!

[DLguy]

A hockey school!

Hockey is #3 at this school and its not even close. Dont get me wrong, I am a big Gopher hockey fan, but I wont pretend it is bigger than basketball and football.

[Iceland12]

[QUOTE=frozengopher;122625]I think you should change that whole statement to, "based on what I read from the Star Tribune and my primal urge to believe that police officers are antagonistic, the umpd helped escalate the whole situation to a level it really didn't need to go."

...... Considering the force continuum and Carter's actions, use of a takedown and wielding a taser were acceptable means to gain compliance. "

Nobody on this board knows what happened, just like we don't know what's happened elsewhere. This description seems reasonable, particularly since Watkins wasn't arrested or tazed. If Carter allows the patdown, there's no arrest and we don't hear anything about the incident.

My brothers are/were cops. The LA Deputy referred to this as an "attitude adjustment" arrest. Carter acts like Watkins and nothing happens. He refused to do that. Then he goes to jail for the night. I think he said he'd have to fill out a "849b-1" and they would have cut him loose in the morning without charges. But again, we were only going by the Star Trib report.

On other note Whaley didn't play for the first few games this season. Turf Toe I think it was called. Maybe Mr. Carter may also miss a lot of action the next couple of weeks with some type of malady.

[Maximus]

On other note Whaley didn't play for the first few games this season. Turf Toe I think it was called. Maybe Mr. Carter may also miss a lot of action the next couple of weeks with some type of malady.

Whaley played against Syracuse.

Besides, there's no reason you'd use an injury excuse when you are actually disciplining an athlete. Right or wrong...handling internally looks bad to the general public.

[Go Gophers Rah]

What if Brewster waits until after his hearing to punish him? (You know, that silly old notion of being innocent until proven guilty). I 100% anticipate that he will plead no contest, guilty or be found guilty, but the process does have to take its course.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Bronko, you're priceless. Stop for a minute and listen to yourself. Do you ever think a Minnesota athlete does anything wrong? Passing the blame on the to the UMPD is bush league. Put away the pom poms once in a great while.

sure they do stuff wrong. i am not saying they don't. but, i also know some good people who have been completely *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ed over by police officers who embellished their incident reports and who went over the top in trying to make arrests for incidents which did not call for it. so, no i will not stop looking at the actions of the umpd, the mall of america police dept, the mpd, etc. i have family members who are/were firefighters, police officers, etc. that doesn't mean i give people in those professions a free pass to be over-zealous jerks while also trampling on people's rights.

maybe you can put down the pom-poms that police are always right and the individual is always in the wrong.

[Rickman55]

Hey GVBadger, call Brewster by his right name or get off this board.........and take your sanctimonius crap with you..........

[Khaliq]

On other note Whaley didn't play for the first few games this season. Turf Toe I think it was called. Maybe Mr. Carter may also miss a lot of action the next couple of weeks with some type of malady.I guess I don't understand the need for gamesmanship. If a player commits a transgression and is held accountable that's unfortunate, but half the point of holding them accountable is to set an example. So why not just stow the excuses and sit them?

[wait!what?]

Imagine the uproar if Brewster was having relations with a cheer leader? In some places that kinda crap gets you an AD job.

[ncgo4]

BPT said that after spending all that money on beer for him and then calling the police, he's pretty disappointed.

[GoAUpher]

Bronko, you're priceless. Stop for a minute and listen to yourself. Do you ever think a Minnesota athlete does anything wrong? Passing the blame on the to the UMPD is bush league. Put away the pom poms once in a great while.

Keep in mind that Bronko also posted about how over the top it was that UMPD had unmarked cars that were involved in the Tinsley situation.

Bronko, I get that you have strong feelings about this...believe it or not I share many of your concerns about how much power police officers get to wield. But your comments in threads on these topics often border on ridiculous.

[MNBadgerGuy]

BPT said that after spending all that money on beer for him and then calling the police, he's pretty disappointed.

LOL! This one got me pretty good. well played ncgo4

[Iceland12]

I guess I don't understand the need for gamesmanship. If a player commits a transgression and is held accountable that's unfortunate, but half the point of holding them accountable is to set an example. So why not just stow the excuses and sit them?

Yeah, to the players yeah, it is the point. Most disciplinary matters shouldn't rise to the point of announcing it to the public. I just honestly have no problem with a coach taking care of this stuff "in house".

If Meyer would have just benched the kid I'd have been fine with that. His "half a game" announcement, intended to appease critics just makes it look like a farce. Paterno suspended some players but others he said he took care of "in house". Oregon seemed to have over reacted to Blount's actions and Boise State seemed to let the instigator go. Ferentz has had a lot of arrests to deal with but the majority of them aren't beyond the norm of a college campus. I'm not going to castigate him for that. I was more irritated about the possible miss use of a housing program then most of the incidents. Bielema's problem in my mind, arose from the disagreement over whether the police involved gave their blessing or not. The Home games part just seemed silly but I didn't have any problem with the punishment

All incidents are different. White was arrested for shoplifting. Should he be suspended? Absolutely. Should the three players have been thrown out in 2007. Yes. Mbakwe was arrested and charged, but he has multiple witnesses that see he was with them at the time of the incident. Should he be able to play? Probably not, but if they determine that he wasn't even there? Then what looks like a reasonable decision will seem quite unjust.

DWI, rape, theft, criminal assault and battery? Suspend the kid or throw him off the team and all the players, recruits and their families should know about it. If the crimes reach public record then the world will know about it.

In the Carter incident I can't get behind a public flogging because I've had a number of cops, big city and small town, tell me through the years about people that "forced me to straighten them out" by taking them to jail. This kind of arrest happens all the time. In small town Minnesota it happens at least on a monthly basis. Either jail or an embarrassing trip home.

The cops involved, if they had worked this past Friday or Saturday night probably had to deal with enough crap in Dinkytown, Frat Houses and Stadium Village to last the rest of the year. They didn't need a mouthy kid telling them he wouldn't be frisked. T hat was with other players yelling at Carter to obey the cop. I'm just not upset with how the cops handled this; and except for the embarrassment factor, I just can't get that pissed-off about what Carter did either.

[mittens22]

The bottom line is he needs to be suspended. Then again, Brewster has been fairly lax on these types of things in his tenure.

[STPGopher]

Maybe the holier then thou, Punky is a stern disciplanarian and ______________ is not garbage will end now.

Then again, it probably won't.

Surprised the AD does not have a policy on this. At Wisconsin, he would have been immediatley suspended per AD policy.

Please don't go there. I remember one RB that assaulted several people and resisted arrest etc.. IIRC it even made SI.

To fellow Gopher fans, lets just focus on our house.

[Gold Vision]

All incidents are different. White and Bostick were arrested for shoplifting. Should they be suspended? Absolutely.


To clarify, Bostick was not involved in the shoplifting incident. They were unrelated offenses.

[badgergopher]

UW would suspend players over misdemeanors? Minnesota suspends you for felonies automatically (that was what the whole Mbakwe stuff was about) and it sounds like that is what you are referring to at UW but I sincerely doubt either school has a rule on the books that suspends automatically based on misdemeanors.

Not saying he shouldn't be suspended (we could at least pull a Florida and take away a half), just saying I think the fact that these are lesser charges legally might have something to do with it not being so automatic.

The UW Policy:
If a student-athlete has been convicted of, charged with or arrested for a violation of the law involving drugs, gambling or violence, the student-athlete would be suspended from all competitions and practices. The student would, however, maintain privileges in the academic center, weight room and sports medicine facility. Alcohol-related offenses, that dont result in violations of the law listed above, will be addressed under each sports team rules.

It's not clear in this case whether 'obstructing the legal process' would be considered 'violence'. The underage drinking would not automatically result in a suspension.

[GoAUpher]

The UW Policy:
If a student-athlete has been convicted of, charged with or arrested for a violation of the law involving drugs, gambling or violence, the student-athlete would be suspended from all competitions and practices. The student would, however, maintain privileges in the academic center, weight room and sports medicine facility. Alcohol-related offenses, that dont result in violations of the law listed above, will be addressed under each sports team rules.

It's not clear in this case whether 'obstructing the legal process' would be considered 'violence'. The underage drinking would not automatically result in a suspension.

That sounds about right and I'm sure the U has something similar on the books. It all comes down to how you classify the offense (which is why they write these things broadly).

[Iceland12]

The bottom line is he needs to be suspended. Then again, Brewster has been fairly lax on these types of things in his tenure.

On the level of say Ferentz or Paterno, Brewster has been Lombardi like in his discpline but again, he hasn't been around long enough to reach those numbers. To be fair, maybe Kirk and Joe have also chosen to keep their stuff "in house".

Maybe you should go back to the Iowa or to Penn State's board and demand a public accounting. Good luck with that.

[Too Long in the Wasteland]

You'd need a ouija board for that. I'm pretty sure Jan kicked the oxygen habit some time ago.

[Khaliq]

I emailed Brew and expressed my opinion on this issue politely. He took the time to write me back with a thoughtful response. I'll be polite and not quote a private email here.

I still don't entirely agree with him, but I can kind of see where he's coming from a little on this. He's a father figure to these kids and it's got to be hard to seeing kids you care about so much savaged. Even when they've done something done. Heck, ESPECIALLY when they have. You're already coping with a tough situation and you want to get it straight and you have to deal with tons of people trying to interject themselves.

I'm going to cut Brew slack on this one, and maybe more in general. It says a lot to me that he took the time to address my concerns and give me some insight into his position. Even if we disagree.

[mittens22]

Iceland, take it easy. I guess I feel like he should be suspended because it was an alcohol offense. I don't think letting this pass is something Brew needs. I'm not saying suspend him for the rest of the year I think some punishment is needed to keep the critics at bay.

[Iceland12]

Iceland, take it easy. I guess I feel like he should be suspended because it was an alcohol offense. I don't think letting this pass is something Brew needs. I'm not saying suspend him for the rest of the year I think some punishment is needed to keep the critics at bay.

That's exactly the point I disagree with. Only from what I've read, I just don't think it rises to the level of suspension. Speaking to your point, if Brewster also feels that way, suspending the kid to appease critics is exactly the wrong thing to do.

If he would suspend Carter even if he feels it's not justified, to make some critics happy then he should just go ahead and resign. If a Head Coach starts throwing his kids to the wolves to hell with him.

[MBAGuy]

I emailed Brew and expressed my opinion on this issue politely. He took the time to write me back with a thoughtful response. I'll be polite and not quote a private email here.

I still don't entirely agree with him, but I can kind of see where he's coming from a little on this. He's a father figure to these kids and it's got to be hard to seeing kids you care about so much savaged. Even when they've done something done. Heck, ESPECIALLY when they have. You're already coping with a tough situation and you want to get it straight and you have to deal with tons of people trying to interject themselves.

I'm going to cut Brew slack on this one, and maybe more in general. It says a lot to me that he took the time to address my concerns and give me some insight into his position. Even if we disagree.

Nice post. Thanks for sharing.

Say what you will about the guy, but there's no doubt he cares about the kids and this program.

[highwayman]

I promise to never comment on how Iowa/Wisconsin, etc. punish their athletes from this point forward.

Beat Illinois! Orlando or San Antonio please!


ha ha unbelievable isn't it.


maybe more to the story than we know.

Still dumb move on many levels if true about Carter.


Can you "handle" the situation after the season is over?


Maybe the holier then thou, Punky is a stern disciplanarian and ______________ is not garbage will end now.

Then again, it probably won't.

Surprised the AD does not have a policy on this. At Wisconsin, he would have been immediatley suspended per AD policy.


I sense Brew being much more lax then Tubby and I don't like it. Combine this incident with Whaley's being 'handled internally' with the complete lack of discipline on the field and I am quite concerned about Brewster's handle on this football team. He should have been suspended for a minimum of two games, period and so should Whaley. This 'handled internally' stuff is BS. The only thing that matters to these guys is playing time. Any other punishment you dish out is small potatoes.


Welcome to big time college football and the way those programs are run. Agree or not, that's the way it is.


Whaley played against Syracuse.

Besides, there's no reason you'd use an injury excuse when you are actually disciplining an athlete. Right or wrong...handling internally looks bad to the general public.


Brunicks better get involved and put a stop to this! Look at the National outrage over the Florida LB "only" getting suspended for a 1/2 over something less than brawling with police. This is going to provoke a firestorm against the U of M.


The bottom line is he needs to be suspended. Then again, Brewster has been fairly lax on these types of things in his tenure.

Incredible!!! I didn't know all you guys were there!!!

Seriously, how many times has the STrib been right on anything? It will be interesting to see what happens, just to find out the TRUTH. If the allegations are true--deal with it; if not, don't appease the know-it-nots. I'm waiting to hear what happened and what will happen.

Until then, it's really none of our business. If you really object, don't donate $ to the U and give up your tickets--that's a real stand; not this blog-a-be stuff...

[Khaliq]

Seriously, how many times has the STrib been right on anything?The Star Tribune is just reporting what the police report said.

[tato2001]

I think you should change that whole statement to, "based on what I read from the Star Tribune and my primal urge to believe that police officers are antagonistic, the umpd helped escalate the whole situation to a level it really didn't need to go."

The police report was vanilla. An officer will never intelligently write anything about themselves that will bring their actions into question (Maybe in the south) Everything they do is procedural or in reaction to another's actions, and it may be hard to believe, but they do have significant training. Considering the force continuum and Carter's actions, use of a takedown and wielding a taser were acceptable means to gain compliance.

If you think all cops are out to get someone, quit kidding yourself. The amount of education to get a police job in this state requires a 2 year degree and pretty much necessitates a 4 year degree because of competition. I don't think anyone with a grudge is going to consider it worth the tens of thousands of dollars. Also, law enforcement is far from the good 'ol boy system it used to be. It's a profession. Quit watching tv and basing your opinions on it.

Your kidding, right? You are VERY naive if you honestly believe your 'never' and 'always' comment. Remember, these ARE the Minneapolis cops, who in recent months and years have done little to give the public much faith in them. You know, the cops that raided the wrong house and came damn close to shooting the homeowner? Those same cops that are being probed by the FBI for beating a man on video and describing something else in their 'report'? Those same cops that recently got busted lying about a traffic stop that was luckily caught on video? You've heard of the Gang Strike Force, haven't you? I could go on and on (and on and on). These are HARDLY isolated incidents. It's absolutely naive to believe that cops are somehow of higher moral substance than the average joe. If it's in their best interest, they'll lie, lie, and lie some more. Unfortunate, but true.

[Khaliq]

Those are all anecdotal examples tato, individual data points that while troubling cannot be used to make a judgment of the police in this situation or the police in general.

My suspicion is that the truth lies much closer to frozengopher's side than yours. He was being intentionally hyperbolic when saying never and always while your points sound alarmist. Especially in the face of what was by all accounts a fairly routine arrest not some gang strike force action.

And there were witnesses to all of this. This didn't happen in a dark back alley. If we're going to give Carter the benefit of the doubt until the facts are known heck shouldn't the police get it too?

Being angry at the cops without any actual evidence or indication they were in the wrong here is misdirected anger imho.

[bankonit]

The bottom line is he needs to be suspended. Then again, Brewster has been fairly lax on these types of things in his tenure.

He needs to be suspended because you say so? The Coaches are taking care of it in a manner that they deem fit and that is good enough. Whether he gets suspended or has to run laps is up to Brewster, it is none of our business and it should never have been made public to begin with. If Carter was just another student at the U it would never make the paper and it should not make the paper just because he is an athlete at the U. And what evidence do you have about Brewster being lax on these things? Kids have been kicked of the team, kids have been suspended multiple games, where exactly is the laxness?

[mittens22]

There have been other incidents this year and there have been no suspensions. As an Iowa fan, you guys rightfully give my program a lot of grief for our embarrassing off the field demeanor. This is a similar situation to what typically happens to Iowa players with the exception of a select few idiots. (Dominique Douglas, Abe Satterfield, etc.) Gopher fans like to say so many drinking violations is an example of a program with no discipline, where the players have no implications for their actions. Of the five or so drinking violations in the past year, all these players have been suspended. This includes simple minors, or PAULA's, similar to Carter's. Drinking is a college thing, no doubt about that. The actions of players are magnified so much because of all that they are given: a free college education. What is known is that Carter was drinking and received a minor during the season, that right there deserves a suspension.

[bankonit]

This issue is nobody's business but Michael Carter's, his parents, and Coach Brewster's. When your kid gets in trouble should a bunch of strangers email you and tell you what the punishment should be? Or email you and demand harsher punishment?

[bankonit]

What incidents? Gary Tinsley did nothing wrong, He could have been swinging the 2x4 to keep everybody under control and to make sure the fights did not escalate. The Kevin Whaley incident was last year and he did not play, which is as good as a suspension. I may be forgetting other non incident "incidents"

[Khaliq]

This issue is nobody's business but Michael Carter's, his parents, and Coach Brewster's. When your kid gets in trouble should a bunch of strangers email you and tell you what the punishment should be? Or email you and demand harsher punishment?Of course not, but that's also not a fair comparison. Brewster and Carter are both representatives of a public institution. Boosters, fans and everyone else who contributes to the program have every right to express their opinion on the conduct of the team and its players.

[bankonit]

I disagree. Brewster is is a representative of the school as an employee, Carter is no more representative of the school than any other student at the U.

[Khaliq]

I disagree. Brewster is is a representative of the school as an employee, Carter is no more representative of the school than any other student at the U.Even were I to accept that assertion the decision of whether or not to suspend Carter is part of Brewster's job and is still fair game for reasonable criticism.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Your kidding, right? You are VERY naive if you honestly believe your 'never' and 'always' comment. Remember, these ARE the Minneapolis cops, who in recent months and years have done little to give the public much faith in them. You know, the cops that raided the wrong house and came damn close to shooting the homeowner? Those same cops that are being probed by the FBI for beating a man on video and describing something else in their 'report'? Those same cops that recently got busted lying about a traffic stop that was luckily caught on video? You've heard of the Gang Strike Force, haven't you? I could go on and on (and on and on). These are HARDLY isolated incidents. It's absolutely naive to believe that cops are somehow of higher moral substance than the average joe. If it's in their best interest, they'll lie, lie, and lie some more. Unfortunate, but true.

thank you

[EG#9]

Those are all anecdotal examples tato, individual data points that while troubling cannot be used to make a judgment of the police in this situation or the police in general.

My suspicion is that the truth lies much closer to frozengopher's side than yours. He was being intentionally hyperbolic when saying never and always while your points sound alarmist. Especially in the face of what was by all accounts a fairly routine arrest not some gang strike force action.

And there were witnesses to all of this. This didn't happen in a dark back alley. If we're going to give Carter the benefit of the doubt until the facts are known heck shouldn't the police get it too?

Being angry at the cops without any actual evidence or indication they were in the wrong here is misdirected anger imho.

I know I am going to regret getting in the middle of this but, you took the time to email the coach of the Gophers based on your suspicion of an incident that you were neither apart of nor witnessed. I don't think I am going out a limb in assuming you have not even met Michael Carter, Kenny Watkins,or any of the other individuals involved. You state "If we're going to give Carter the benefit of the doubt until the facts are known heck shouldn't the police get it too? You have already emailed Coach Brewster suggesting Carter be suspended, how is that giving him the benefit of the doubt? Have you also emailed the chief of police suggesting the officers involved in this incident be suspended?

The only factual information most of us have to go on is that Michael Carter drank some amount of alcohol on the night in question and was not willing to comply with certain police commands. Should Carter be suspended for his M.I.P.? My initial thought was yes, but I don't think it is completely black and white. If the student code of conduct is similar to when I was in school a few years ago, a first alcohol violation calls for something like going to an alcohol awareness class and writing a paper. You could still argue that, as a student-athlete, Carter should be held to a higher standard and be suspended.

[highwayman]

The Star Tribune is just reporting what the police report said.

That I doubt highly...

[frozengopher]

That I doubt highly...

If there's sarcasm in this comment, I'm completely missing it. I really hope I am.

[MNCH]

[QUOTE=bankonit;122913]What incidents? Gary Tinsley did nothing wrong, He could have been swinging the 2x4 to keep everybody under control and to make sure the fights did not escalate. QUOTE]



"Spin your head! Spin your head!"

[skiumah2]

Is suspension the only punishment that would be viewed as acceptable to all of you? What if the coach came out and announced that he is not suspending the player in question because he doesn't feel the entire team should be punished for the actions of one player. He explains that he doesn't think it's fair to the rest of the team to jeopardize their success on the field for the actions of one player. He then says that the player will be punished internally, and he assures everyone that the player will suffer extremely unpleasant consequences for his actions. Assuming that the player's offense is the "being stupid" misdeeds, and not the more serious offenses where lawyers are needed, would non suspension punishments be acceptable to you?

[GophersInIowa]

Is suspension the only punishment that would be viewed as acceptable to all of you? What if the coach came out and announced that he is not suspending the player in question because he doesn't feel the entire team should be punished for the actions of one player. He explains that he doesn't think it's fair to the rest of the team to jeopardize their success on the field for the actions of one player. He then says that the player will be punished internally, and he assures everyone that the player will suffer extremely unpleasant consequences for his actions. Assuming that the player's offense is the "being stupid" misdeeds, and not the more serious offenses where lawyers are needed, would non suspension punishments be acceptable to you?

I've experienced a coaching staff that believed in punishments other than suspensions. I played D2 ball, and the coaching staff hardly ever suspended players. Instead their punishment usually was lots and lots of running after practice along with community service. Most times they learned their lesson.

Our off-season lifting/conditioning program started at 6am, four days a week. The first thing we did every morning was a killer ab workout lasting about 10-12 minutes. If someone showed up late (happened a lot early on), we would stop the ab workout and start all over. And it would be even tougher the 2nd time. But the person that was late just stood in the middle watching everyone else. Let's just say everyone would get really pissed at him. After the first week or two, we never had anyone late.

Who knows what Brewster and his staff are thinking. I'm certainly not saying that his decision is okay because of my experiences. Obviously none of us knows the whole story. But there are other ways to punish than suspensions. And in many cases, they can be more effective.

[JackiO]

That I doubt highly...

ha ha ha ha this guy is ridiculous.

[myleslong]

Some of you guys are funny. Anyone notice that Maturi recently described his department as an "asylum" when referring to the "snowballing" of troubles with Gopher student-athletes? I wonder why he used that word? NOT!

Carter is playing this week because you guys need a win. Plain and Simple!

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Some of you guys are funny. Anyone notice that Maturi recently described his department as an "asylum" when referring to the "snowballing" of troubles with Gopher student-athletes? I wonder why he used that word? NOT!

Carter is playing this week because you guys need a win. Plain and Simple!

he used the term in relation to how some "over-reactors" in the general public might view the dept. at this point in time. he wasn't giving his own personal viewpoint of his dept. but, i am sure you completely missed that very clear distinction on purpose since it is just not as funny to a becky troll the other way around. :rolleyes:

btw - how are the windows in that glass house of your's myles? uw is not a school to that should do much talking when it comes to running a perfect little program.

now go away and take some more lewd photos of college cheerleaders and then post them on beckyville for your becky circle jerk crew. you do seem to be really good at THAT. you turd. do you have children? if so, i fear what they would think if they knew their dad was up to that kind of sick stuff.

[denguegopher]

.055? This is a case of a kid getting drunk for the first time. It only took a couple beers.

Hopefully he learned his lesson via humiliation.

If I understand it correctly .055 off the charts drunk, but .055% would not be.

[myleslong]

.....btw - how are the windows in that glass house of your's myles? uw is not a school to that should do much talking when it comes to running a perfect little program.
.

When Badger Student-Athletes are arrested in situations like Carter was, they are immediately suspended. It's school policy with no discretion. Apparently, it's different up there. Hey I get it, the Gophers aren't bowl eligible yet. Brewster needs all the help he can get. I understand this.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

When Badger Student-Athletes are arrested in situations like Carter was, they are immediately suspended.

please! how is lance smith (former uw footballer who was not suspended by the uw team for far worse discretions) doing these days?

yep. you keep on telling yourself that myles.....if it helps you sleep at night in your becky footie-pajamas.

[myleslong]

please! how is lance smith (former uw footballer who was not suspended by the uw team for far worse discretions) doing these days?

yep. you keep on telling yourself that myles.....if it helps you sleep at night in your becky footie-pajamas.

I have no idea how he is doing, but he was indeed suspended, as he should have been. You are an embarrassment to the truthful, decent posters on this board.

LINK (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=ncf&id=2941211)

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

I have no idea how he is doing, but he was indeed suspended, as he should have been. You are an embarrassment to the truthful, decent posters on this board.

LINK (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=ncf&id=2941211)

and you are an embarassment to the lying, deceitful posters on beckyville.com

[casual observer]

I promise to never comment on how Iowa/Wisconsin, etc. punish their athletes from this point forward.

Beat Illinois! Orlando or San Antonio please!

Combined, our football and basketball arrests are catching up with our neighbors in Wisconsin and Iowa. No one on this board should be throwing stones right now. Maturi and Brew are just like their colleagues in WI and IA. They have situations to deal with, and a business to run. Right now, they have to win... and a lack of depth...

The holier than thou thing is over - accept it. It's not always pretty.

[bankonit]

lol...must be why this is all part of the "public record?"

just because something is public record does not mean it is everyone's business

[bankonit]

[QUOTE=bankonit;122913]What incidents? Gary Tinsley did nothing wrong, He could have been swinging the 2x4 to keep everybody under control and to make sure the fights did not escalate. QUOTE]



"Spin your head! Spin your head!"

MNCH, I was not aware you were there and were a star witness to the events. I am glad you know how things went down and know exactly what Gary Tinsley was thinking and doing. Have you testified yet? Just because something gets written in a police report or the star tribune does not mean it is true. Police embellish reports often and the Strib has been known to publish complete crap and intend to smear.

[myleslong]

just because something is public record does not mean it is everyone's business

LOL. KInda like blame the cops for using unmarked cars to patrol with a better chance of sneaking up and catching bad people doing bad things, right? Some of you guys are incredibly dense on this board.

The fact that it can be everyone's business through the public record is exactly why such records are public.

[runningmama]

Disgusting

[runningmama]

Nice job with your scholarship players Coach Lee.Don't forget to check off the "thug" box on the application next yr secondaries.

[runningmama]

When a player skips class all of the team has to do do gassers while that player watches. All actions have consequences. Man up buddy.

[dpodoll68]

just because something is public record does not mean it is everyone's business

Ha ha! You really are not very smart, are you?

In fact, that's exactly what "public record" means. It does mean that it is everyone's business! That's why they call it "public"!

[PlayHosea]

Nice job with your scholarship players Coach Lee.Don't forget to check off the "thug" box on the application next yr secondaries."thug" –noun 1. a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.

Yeah, that applies.

[Maximus]

just because something is public record does not mean it is everyone's business

Poster of the Year!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Maximus]

I wonder why he used that word? NOT!


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_m6argEAskk0/Sb_KsrWTx6I/AAAAAAAAAAk/W-WDl_T-dTg/s400/wayne_campbell.jpg

Excellent. Going back to 1992 for a reference.

[frozengopher]

just because something is public record does not mean it is everyone's business

Love it.


[QUOTE=MNCH;123092]Police embellish reports often and the Strib has been known to publish complete crap and intend to smear.

Do you have statistical proof? Known by whom?

[bankonit]

I guess it is the TMZ mindset to believe that everyone's private life is your business. Lets all stalk kids at schools and jump down their throats when we see them mess up. And if you believe everything you read in the paper or hear on the news you are dumber than I give you credit for. It's called "spin" newscasters report the version of the story that they want you to hear, they do not just state facts

[dpodoll68]

I guess it is the TMZ mindset to believe that everyone's private life is your business. Lets all stalk kids at schools and jump down their throats when we see them mess up. And if you believe everything you read in the paper or hear on the news you are dumber than I give you credit for. It's called "spin" newscasters report the version of the story that they want you to hear, they do not just state facts

Were you the kid in school that kept asking the teacher questions because you "didn't understand", while everyone else pointed and laughed and rolled their eyes because they wanted to get past the discussion of "1 + 1 = 2" 20 minutes ago? That is my guess.

Despite what you think, scholarship athletes are held to a higher standard. When the public is funding that student's education, they damn well have a right to know what that student is up to, especially when they are out in public. Everything that they do, good or bad, is a reflection on the University itself. And people are rightfully pissed when these guys act like idiots.

Regardless of how this situation settles out, two facts are indisputable: 1. Carter was out somewhere he shouldn't have been, especially at that time of night; and 2. He was doing something he shouldn't have been doing. Whatever happens as a result of that is his fault, and nobody else's.

[gopher1956]

adsfgfgfdb gfgfdgs

[gopher1956]

I graduated from the U of M in 1980 and had the pleasure of watching the football team with class acts like Tony Dungy. It now appears like the team has a number of very serious issues that need to dealt with. Brewster needs to send a message the team that these types of incidents (like Carter and Whaley) are not tolerated. The lack of decipline seems to have carried on to the field also with last weeks record number of penalities. I am embarssed by this team, but not by the overall performance on the field but by the police blotter. Something needs to be done now before we have another repeat of the terrible incidents from the past.

[Maximus]

Brewster needs to send a message the team that these types of incidents (like Carter and Whaley) are not tolerated. The lack of decipline seems to have carried on to the field also with last weeks record number of penalities.

Neither Carter or Whaley have been penalized on the field this season.

Iowa has more arrests/citations than anybody and are the third least penalized team in all of college football.

[bigtenchamps1899]

Were you the kid in school that kept asking the teacher questions because you "didn't understand", while everyone else pointed and laughed and rolled their eyes because they wanted to get past the discussion of "1 + 1 = 2" 20 minutes ago? That is my guess.



your attitude on this board solidifies every feeling i had about grad students (particularly in the history dept) while at the U. your feelings of inadequacy at not being at a better school has led you to put on airs of intellectual superiority.

bring it down a notch or two, you are not impressing anyone here.

[harrys ghost]

I graduated from the U of M in 1980 and had the pleasure of watching the football team with class acts like Tony Dungy. It now appears like the team has a number of very serious issues that need to dealt with. Brewster needs to send a message the team that these types of incidents (like Carter and Whaley) are not tolerated. The lack of decipline seems to have carried on to the field also with last weeks record number of penalities. I am embarssed by this team, but not by the overall performance on the field but by the police blotter. Something needs to be done now before we have another repeat of the terrible incidents from the past.

You clearly missed the Purdue BB game where Tony nearly got into a fight with then Purdue coach Fred Schaus. Actually, Tony is a good example. He was a real hot-head as a student but his entire outlook on life has changed pretty dramatically since then.

[grunkiejr]

Brunicks better get involved and put a stop to this! Look at the National outrage over the Florida LB "only" getting suspended for a 1/2 over something less than brawling with police. This is going to provoke a firestorm against the U of M.

Your characterization of "brawling with police" seems a bit extreme relative to the description in the paper which I assume was pulled from a police report. Michael Carter refused to be patted down.

Brandon Spikes on the otherhand tried to intentionally injure a defenseless opponent in a manner that could have caused permanent blindness.

IMO Brandon Spikes deserves a more severe punishment.

[Iceland12]

Your characterization of "brawling with police" seems a bit extreme relative to the description in the paper which I assume was pulled from a police report. Michael Carter refused to be patted down.

Brandon Spikes on the otherhand tried to intentionally injure a defenseless opponent in a manner that could have caused permanent blindness.

IMO Brandon Spikes deserves a more severe punishment.

Old Gopher is a troll, pure and simple. Why engage him at all?

[dpodoll68]

your attitude on this board solidifies every feeling i had about grad students (particularly in the history dept) while at the U. your feelings of inadequacy at not being at a better school has led you to put on airs of intellectual superiority.

bring it down a notch or two, you are not impressing anyone here.

I'm not even a grad student, so thanks for the misguided rant!

And, for the record, when I was coming out of HS, I could've gone to pretty much any school I wanted. I chose to go to the U of M, because it was relatively close to home and (at least at the time) relatively affordable.

I'm not going to start naming names, but I was accepted at every school I applied to, most of which I had absolutely no intention of even considering attending - just applied to see if it's as hard to get in as they say.

Oh, also - thanks for talking Gophers!

[bigtenchamps1899]

I'm not even a grad student, so thanks for the misguided rant!

And, for the record, when I was coming out of HS, I could've gone to pretty much any school I wanted. I chose to go to the U of M, because it was relatively close to home and (at least at the time) relatively affordable.

I'm not going to start naming names, but I was accepted at every school I applied to, most of which I had absolutely no intention of even considering attending - just applied to see if it's as hard to get in as they say.

Oh, also - thanks for talking Gophers!

not a rant. i didn't use a single exclamation point!

if your are not a grad student at the U, you certainly act like one (http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showpost.php?p=32236&postcount=42)
and before you can got there, yes i am stalking you.

[dpodoll68]

not a rant. i didn't use a single exclamation point!

if your are not a grad student at the U, you certainly act like one (http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showpost.php?p=32236&postcount=42)
and before you can got there, yes i am stalking you.

I was pursuing a history PhD at the time, but they wouldn't let me work full-time and be a student. So I told them to stick it. I can't afford to support a wife and son at home on a $300/wk stipend. Especially when that factors out to something like $6/hr for a GA.

I am considering getting back into a different doctoral program - something I can pursue while still working full-time.

I'm glad I can answer the questions of all my adoring fans on this sports-themed internet message board!:)

[bigtenchamps1899]

I was pursuing a history PhD at the time, but they wouldn't let me work full-time and be a student. So I told them to stick it. I can't afford to support a wife and son at home on a $300/wk stipend. Especially when that factors out to something like $6/hr for a GA.

I am considering getting back into a different doctoral program - something I can pursue while still working full-time.

I'm glad I can answer the questions of all my adoring fans on this sports-themed internet message board!:)

when i applied to the history PhD program (i was rejected:cry:)i read that the package was around 16,000 a year plus tuition reimbursement.

can't blame you for telling them to stick it, especially looking at the placement of recent PhD grads from the history dept.;)

check your PM

[Maximus]

Regardless of how this situation settles out, two facts are indisputable: 1. Carter was out somewhere he shouldn't have been, especially at that time of night;

Pretty sure he can go to a pizza place whenever he wants to as long as it's not the night before a game.

[dpodoll68]

Pretty sure he can go to a pizza place whenever he wants to as long as it's not the night before a game.

"Can" and "should" are two very different things, my friend.

I, for one, feel a football player, in season, shouldn't be out past midnight at any time. But that's just my opinion.

[WAGopher]

For freshmen, I'd even go further than the midnight curfew. I think all freshmen should be housed together with curfew rules and a mandatory sign in/out sheet. Once they have a year of college life under their belt, then they can live with the upperclassmen. This arrangement may have kept some of the kids out of trouble and also taught them a thing or two to help them make better decisions.

[BradDad]

1/2 game suspension is standard SEC penalty for player ejected from game for fighting. Urban Meyer imposed fighting suspension on a player who wasn't in a fight. As far as "eye gouging" is concerned - Georgia running back involved says no such thing occurred. What Spikes was doing, who knows, but he wasn't "eye gouging."

So - Spikes got suspension penalty for "fighting" when he wasn't actually fighting, Georgia player says what Spikes is being accused of in media didn't happen & people everywhere are getting on high horse about Urban Meyer running a 'thug' program.

Bovine Excrement.

There are two ways to handle an athlete getting in trouble with the law:

Suspend the kid pending resolution of the charges or take action after resolution of the charges.

The U is employing the former with regard to the basketball players and the latter with Carter.

There are arguments for either one.

[casual observer]

For freshmen, I'd even go further than the midnight curfew. I think all freshmen should be housed together with curfew rules and a mandatory sign in/out sheet. Once they have a year of college life under their belt, then they can live with the upperclassmen. This arrangement may have kept some of the kids out of trouble and also taught them a thing or two to help them make better decisions.

They can vote, go to war, but they can't live on their own...?? They already pretty much live in all athlete dorms. They have 3 meals a day, study halls, tudors, practice and classes.

The truth is 18-22 yr old kids f up.

They are from various backgrounds and socio-economic status situations. Those who can handle the freedom and new responsibilities will be ok, those who can't will not.

We all need to step back, quit harping on other schools and admit we have the same problems...

[WAGopher]

They can vote, go to war, but they can't live on their own...?? They already pretty much live in all athlete dorms. They have 3 meals a day, study halls, tudors, practice and classes.

The truth is 18-22 yr old kids f up.

They are from various backgrounds and socio-economic status situations. Those who can handle the freedom and new responsibilities will be ok, those who can't will not.

We all need to step back, quit harping on other schools and admit we have the same problems...

I understand your point of view, but the University is investing thousands of dollars just to get the kids in school. And their parents are counting on the school to keep them on the right path. I agree with your socio-economic diversity point, and if you think about it, there are many kids that won't fit in with being a student athlete without some time to adjust. I doubt this would happen due to the uncertainty of attracting top athletes if they would have to adhere to some stricter rules. However, I'm sure there are many parents that would love to have their kids attend a school that makes it easier, and safer, for them to adjust.

[Brew_recruit]

I love how so many want to bury Carter but say "boys will be boys" with Maresh. DOUBLE STANDARD by lots of old fans.

[eker0016]

I love how so many want to bury Carter but say "boys will be boys" with Maresh. DOUBLE STANDARD by lots of old fans.

Why are you dredging this up? Most of the board seems to be in agreement that Maresh has been acting like an idiot.

[DiehardGopher]

maybe because underage drinking =/= fighting. though to be fair i don't really care one way or the other.

p.s. i remember this thread and stopped reading after page 1 the first time around.