Michael Carter arrested and jailed for obstructing the legal process

[BleedGopher]

and consumption by a minor.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/68637447.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD 3aPc:_Yyc:aUUs

Go Gophers!!

[gunsoffun20]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/68637447.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD 3aPc:_Yyc:aUUs

[Monty519]

Well that's just great news.....

Really though,what was he thinking trying to resist officer's orders? Just incredibly dumb, I don't get how these kids can think they're gonna win that one.

[JackiO]

Oh *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# NO. Are you serious??????????? This is insanity. Suspension immediately make a F'n example of them now.

[#93fanclub]

so many of you want to consume in TCF Bank stadium that makes people do dumb things. Suspend him for a game and make him go to AA.

[golfinggopher]

That sucks! He's going to be a good player let's hope he uses his nogin! I'm sure 95% of people on hear drank before they were 21, but the resisting arrest thing is just not smart at all!

[Schnoodler]

No taser?!! Rookie.

[JackiO]

so many of you want to consume in TCF Bank stadium that makes people do dumb things. Suspend him for a game and make him go to AA.

How the hell do you attempt to attack the police officers?? Seriously what is going through your mind at that point in your life. Un-freaking believable. I mean I got bombed a lot in college but resisting arrest is asking to get your balls cut off. He's in deep sh!t. Whaley V.2 here we go...

[NewEngland_Gold]

One of the reasons teams need depth...contingencies.

[#93fanclub]

are misdemeanors

[Cmich Gopher]

Ugh... why cant players just learn to wait to do stupid **** until after they leave college?

Obviously wasnt thinking and now the team will suffer for it.

[Monty519]

I just can't get over how stupid drunk he had to have been to sit there and try to fight cops. Especially since he probably is outweighed by both of them lol. And then why are they picking fights in the first place. I don't fault guys who may get into dust ups so often, but when you're the one sitting there picking the fight, what are you doing?

[NewEngland_Gold]

so many of you want to consume in TCF Bank stadium that makes people do dumb things. Suspend him for a game and make him go to AA.

Obviously he needs the help of another supporting program...MC, best wishes for a full recovery, your GG family needs you.

[Bisker82]

Hopefully his uncle Tyrone will whoop some sense in to him!!

I support this team but there are some incredibly undiscipled morons on it!!! All the personal fouls on the field indicate a definite lack of maturity but this off field bullshiite is inexcusable!!

[JackiO]

Hopefully his uncle Tyrone will whoop some sense in to him!!

I support this team but there are some incredibly undiscipled morons on it!!! All the personal fouls on the field indicate a definite lack of maturity but this off field bullshiite is inexcusable!!

There is some obvious lack of discipline on this team and it is maddening. Our coaches must be push-overs.

[Schnoodler]

I think they come in that way, notice they're always the youngsters. Need to step over the line and get whacked once or twice to get it sometimes.

[SelectionSunday]

It never ceases to amaze me what idiotic decisions some of these guys make.

Let's see, I'm pretty much a public figure by being a major-college football player. I'm a freshman and apparently I've moved ahead of a senior (Traye Simmons) on the depth chart. ... I think to celebrate I'm going to go out and under-age drink, then resist arrest. Quality decision making.

Discipline starts off the field, and it certainly doesn't appear to be demanded on the field with all the stupid, undisciplined penalties the Gophers commit. That's gotta' be one of Brew's biggest priorities right now, nipping the cheap stuff & taunting in the bud before it gets out of hand. I think the talent level is clearly up, but so is the stupid undisciplined penalty quotient.

[RedPoo]

Oh *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# NO. Are you serious??????????? This is insanity. Suspension immediately make a F'n example of them now.


Agreed. Suspend Carter for the next 2 games, send him to Tyrone for an old fashioned whuppin', then get him back for Iowa.

I'm getting sick of the stupidity on this team. You can't stop kids from drinking, but you'd think at the very least you could teach them not to f_ with the police.
And what's with all the fights? Didn't he get this crap out of his system during the game?

[Go Gophers Rah]

I haven't done any real analysis here, but it seems like about 55% of the team is from Minnesota and 45% from elsewhere, but 90% of the guys who get into trouble are not the ones from Minnesota. Willie VanDeSteeg is the only native Minnesotan I can remember getting into trouble.

[PlayHosea]

Say what you want about Iowa, but at least they keep the majority of their arrests to the offseason.

[KoolAid]

Say what you want about Iowa, but at least they keep the majority of their arrests to the offseason.

Indeed, they are very crafty.

[tikited]

I just don't get how dumb some of our players are... How many more real-life examples do these fools need?

[Maximus]

Nothing what these players do surprise me, I don't get outraged, I generally don't care....as long as they are publically punished and it's not "handled internally".

[NewEngland_Gold]

Hopefully his uncle Tyrone will whoop some sense in to him!!

I support this team but there are some incredibly undiscipled morons on it!!! All the personal fouls on the field indicate a definite lack of maturity but this off field bullshiite is inexcusable!!

Note to Brew: lack of player discipline can do the team a lot of damage both on and off the field. Maybe this will lead to some more effective, badly needed teaching moments and behavioral seminars.

[anticallihan]

so many of you want to consume in TCF Bank stadium that makes people do dumb things. Suspend him for a game and make him go to AA.

AA?

ha hah ahahaha...

Is everyone on here 65?

Man college kids being college kids. Sucks.. stupid.. all that.

But not out of the norm.

[JackiO]

AA?

ha hah ahahaha...

Is everyone on here 65?

Man college kids being college kids. Sucks.. stupid.. all that.

But not out of the norm.

For normal college students, yes. But typically most Division 1 college athletes try to stay sober during the season. The ones who don't aren't taking things very seriously; It's as simple as that.

[RedPoo]

AA?

ha hah ahahaha...

Is everyone on here 65?

Man college kids being college kids. Sucks.. stupid.. all that.

But not out of the norm.

Ok, the TCF/liquor argument is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard...but this is out of the norm. College kids drink. Pricks and idiots drink, then try and start a fight with two (likely much smaller) guys, when they're rolling with a number of players from their D1 FOOTBALL TEAM....then top it all off by getting lippy/belligerent with the police.

[Rickman55]

Where did he get the beer or liquor?

[tjgesquire]

suspend him for the first half vs. Illinois.

[PlayHosea]

Where did he get the beer or liquor?The same place I got mine when I was his age, I "found it in a ditch".

[gopherjay]

We need a boxing program. We also need a class on "how not to be a dumb ass".

[anticallihan]

Ok, the TCF/liquor argument is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard...but this is out of the norm. College kids drink. Pricks and idiots drink, then try and start a fight with two (likely much smaller) guys, when they're rolling with a number of players from their D1 FOOTBALL TEAM....then top it all off by getting lippy/belligerent with the police.

The norm is kids drink and get in fights in college.

A few kids out of nearly 90 is about the norm for this stuff.

Look at your own group of friends and extended circles in college.

They were not even in a fight BTW.

I am annoyed about this just as much as anyone, but I am not going to over-react. Bench him for a game, he'll learn his lesson. It is too bad he couldn't learn it from just seeing some of this stuff earlier in the year.

[Goldmember]

Alchohol impares your judgement and makes you do things you wouldn't if you were sober.

There is a lot of trouble to get into in Minneapolis, but there is no quicker way to get yourself in trouble than disragarding cops. And Minneapolis has never been a place where athletes are given any preferential treatment. Good luck to Michael Carter. Booozin' has been the knock-out puch to the career of many athletes.

Fortunately, the guys didn't fight or this could have escalated into something much, much larger involving more players. I'm also encouraged by the teammates that encouraged him to comply with the officers and get the whole encounter over with.

[Too Long in the Wasteland]

I agree with just about everyone else in this thread (aside from the WTF comment on how this relates to not selling beer in TCF) that this was incredibly stupid on Carter's part, and there should be some discipline that involves him missing at least a game. At a minimum maybe it keeps someone else from doing something even more moronic. These are the kind of situations that wind up with someone getting capped. Just ask Whaley.

That said, anytime I see someone charged with "resisting arrest" or "obstructing the legal process", its a flag that the cops didn't have a real crime to charge him with. For better or worse, pissing off a cop isn't illegal. It just isn't a terribly bright thing to do. Remember that Harvard professor a few months ago? Maybe Bruininks can invite the cop and Carter over to Eastcliff for a beer?

P.S. The one silver lining in this mess: The strib article mentioned that several other Gopher players were trying to get Carter to STFU and listen to the five-oh. So perhaps the message is getting received?

[paulser21]

Where did he get the beer or liquor?


Are you trying to hold somebody else responsible for his stupidity? Just go to any dorm, frat, apartment, or college house on or around campus.

[GopherLady]

particularly for ones close to the program.

I'm just wondering - do these kids get training on situations like this - kind of like a Football 101 - common sense? I know they get training on interviewing, but have always wondered if they get advice on things like this, Facebook updates, etc.? Or is it kind of like sex ed where they just teach abstinence. Kids will be kids, and let's face it, a lot of kids (including myself) drank underage. Although they are under the microscope, and should be very careful of image and getting caught, I get it's going to happen, I'm realistic. However, this whole resisting arrest and wrestling with officers is what really shocks me. Had his story been like Kenny Watkins - got caught, got a minor, a slap on the wrist, that's something that can easily be overlooked. I'm just wondering if they're taught these things...if you are in a bind, how to act?

Oh, and btw - please...stop fighting! Everyone knows athletes, and many will try to pick fights with you (not in this case, but in general). Take your aggressions out on the field.

[paulser21]

The same place I got mine when I was his age, I "found it in a ditch".

A homeless guy bought it for me!

[monk10]

I usually found mine in a bottle or a can.

[craw0092]

Best case scenarios Maturi investigates this until next week so Carter can play against Illinois. Then bench him for SDSU and bring him back for Iowa. Let's hope for it.

[icepirate13]

The same place I got mine when I was his age, I "found it in a ditch".

Mine was always at a "big silver culvert":rolleyes:

[highwayman]

There is some obvious lack of discipline on this team and it is maddening. Our coaches must be push-overs.


Note to Brew: lack of player discipline can do the team a lot of damage both on and off the field. Maybe this will lead to some more effective, badly needed teaching moments and behavioral seminars.

"Discipline" - to punish or penalize in order to train and control; correct; chastise; punishment inflicted by way of correction and training.

You have to have something to discipline, correct. 18 year olds make dumb decisions, there need to be consequences. I think Whaley, Dandridge, and McKinley know that, now Carter and Watkins will.

You can't plan for everything and you can warn kids until you're blue in the face. Now they'll see what happens.

PENALTIES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS, stop trying to link the unlinkable...

[NewEngland_Gold]

Maybe the best teaching moment GH can deliver on this subject is to have it go on for weeks!

[Rickman55]

No, I'm not tying to hold someone else responsible. And the jokes on here about where everyone else got their's in college is pathetic. What your saying is that underage drinking is acceptable as long as you don't get caught.

[JackiO]

"Discipline" - to punish or penalize in order to train and control; correct; chastise; punishment inflicted by way of correction and training.

You have to have something to discipline, correct. 18 year olds make dumb decisions, there need to be consequences. I think Whaley, Dandridge, and McKinley know that, now Carter and Watkins will.

You can't plan for everything and you can warn kids until you're blue in the face. Now they'll see what happens.

PENALTIES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS, stop trying to link the unlinkable...

Dude I saw what you wrote in the other thread and you have no idea what you are talking about. IT FALLS on discipline you moron. Coaches need to instill discipline in there division one athletes who are getting full rides!!!! Think about it. Making dumb decisions including personal foul penalties and countless arrests revolve around discipline.

[Bisker82]

"Discipline" - to punish or penalize in order to train and control; correct; chastise; punishment inflicted by way of correction and training.

You have to have something to discipline, correct. 18 year olds make dumb decisions, there need to be consequences. I think Whaley, Dandridge, and McKinley know that, now Carter and Watkins will.

You can't plan for everything and you can warn kids until you're blue in the face. Now they'll see what happens.

PENALTIES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS, stop trying to link the unlinkable...

Self discipline is about not taking stupid penalties...self discipline is also about not making these stupid off field decisions...WHAM!!!! THERE"S A LINK!!!!!!

[Schnoodler]

Self discipline is about not taking stupid penalties...self discipline is also about not making these stupid off field decisions...WHAM!!!! THERE"S A LINK!!!!!!

And then someone else said Iowa leads in arrests and has fewest penalties. So that blows up your "link". The link is that these events are all by underclassmen still only a few months into their college experience.

[MN Gopher Fan]

1. We're moving towards a big time program (please don't tangent off that and talk about where the program is headed) which means we're getting players with bigger egos that expand with alcohol, so they think they can take on the five-oh...this is something we're not used to but if you go to a florida school, texas school, and other big time school this happens a few times a year for sure...

2. I don't know if we have a college class 101 for our football players but they need to drive it into their brain that yes, they are public figures, and yes, they can beat up most of the people they run into on the streets...so there isn't a reason to prove that

3. For how forgiving the cops have been this year, you have to do some really dumb stuff to even get a minor or arrested like this...I mean, when i read this and knowing how this was just on the streets, i just laughed a little on how dumb they must've been acting.

[bassy123]

<b>But typically most Division 1 college athletes try to stay sober during the season. The ones who don't aren't taking things very seriously; It's as simple as that.</b>

you're pretty clueless aren't you?

[Maximus]

Think about it. Making dumb decisions including personal foul penalties and countless arrests revolve around discipline.

Why does Iowa LEAD the Big Ten in arrests and LEAD the Big Ten in fewest penalties?

[Ole]

Dude I saw what you wrote in the other thread and you have no idea what you are talking about. IT FALLS on discipline you moron. Coaches need to instill discipline in there division one athletes who are getting full rides!!!! Think about it. Making dumb decisions including personal foul penalties and countless arrests revolve around discipline.

I haven't seen one personal foul penalty worthy of a flag this year, yes they have been flagged, but MANY have been BS judgment calls by the refs. Sorry I just don't agree with that sort of unemotional brand of football, my opinion.
More importantly,
The "countless" arrests you speak of is 1 arrest, 1, the others were let go.
Carter was an idiot, will be punished, will be suspended. Kids do stupid stupid things, here's to hoping he learns and grows and moves on to have a sterling career here.

[RedPoo]

No, I'm not tying to hold someone else responsible. And the jokes on here about where everyone else got their's in college is pathetic. What your saying is that underage drinking is acceptable as long as you don't get caught.

1- I'll say that, sure. Underage drinking is ok as long as you don't get caught. Personally, I feel bad for kids that would like to drink, but stay away until it's legal (if such kids exist).

2- Not trying to be a jerk or anything but...spell check. Please.

[Maximus]

But typically most Division 1 college athletes try to stay sober during the season.

This ain't BYU....Division I college athletes do not try to stay sober during the season.

[gopher_alum_2005]

No, I'm not tying to hold someone else responsible. And the jokes on here about where everyone else got their's in college is pathetic. What your saying is that underage drinking is acceptable as long as you don't get caught.


Relax. There's a stat that about 75% of college kids get minors before turning 21. If you were in the majority I'd tell you to keep going on your soap box, but since you're not I think you need to stop being so righteous.

There's a saying: "Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment"

Chalk this one up as experience and hopefully the young man learns his lesson.

[parkinglotgopher]

No, I'm not tying to hold someone else responsible. And the jokes on here about where everyone else got their's in college is pathetic. What your saying is that underage drinking is acceptable as long as you don't get caught.

First off, many of the jokes are chuckle-worthy. Not really funny, not pathetic. The point the jokes are driving at, however, is that there's about 100 ways for the average college student to get booze. It's not difficult. I can't honestly remember one time in my (pre-21) college career where I was unable to find booze when I wanted some. And I wasn't on the football team. If I were, I imagine that 100 ways becomes about 1,000. There's no point wasting any time trying to figure out who got the booze. The problem isn't that someone supplied him with liquor, it's what he chose to do once he consumed it. You say you're not trying to hold others responsible in this case, but to try and track down the source, IMHO, is to deflect some of the blame and responsibility off Michael.

[DarrenTheGreek]

Best case scenarios Maturi investigates this until next week so Carter can play against Illinois. Then bench him for SDSU and bring him back for Iowa. Let's hope for it.

SDSU is probably a better team than Illinois.

[RedPoo]

SDSU is probably a better team than Illinois.


I don't think I'd go that far. Illinois is without a doubt the more talented team, and they looked like they put it together on Saturday.

[go4rob]

and consumption by a minor.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/68637447.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD 3aPc:_Yyc:aUUs

Go Gophers!!

they'll be off the team in two days.

[dpodoll68]

There's a stat that about 75% of college kids get minors before turning 21.

Please cite. I highly doubt this is accurate.

Nearly all HS and college kids drink at some point or another, but most are smart enough to not get caught.

[Ole]

they'll be off the team in two days.

yeah, ok

"The officer requested back-up help, and when another officer arrived both went inside Mesa Pizza and took the two players outside. Watkins complied with instructions for a pat search, but Carter refused to put his hands on a wall, and when an officer grabbed his arm attempting to throw him to the ground, Carter spun around. Both officers then attempted to get control of Carter, who continued to resist the officers even as several additional Gophers football players came outside and yelled at him to stop."

At least someone there was telling him to stop, and Watkins appeared to be compliant, this one's on Carter, suspend him and move on.

[KoolAid]

Relax. There's a stat that about 75% of college kids get minors before turning 21.

You beat me to it Dpo, but this stat could easily be categorized as "something made up on the spot."

[MNCH]

I haven't done any real analysis here, but it seems like about 55% of the team is from Minnesota and 45% from elsewhere, but 90% of the guys who get into trouble are not the ones from Minnesota. Willie VanDeSteeg is the only native Minnesotan I can remember getting into trouble.



How Minnesota-centric of you!

[STPGopher]

Dude I saw what you wrote in the other thread and you have no idea what you are talking about. IT FALLS on discipline you moron. Coaches need to instill discipline in there division one athletes who are getting full rides!!!! Think about it. Making dumb decisions including personal foul penalties and countless arrests revolve around discipline.

On field penalties of the (of the procedural or off sides, false start, motion, etc.) IMO should be separated from the off the field nonsense. Usually they are caused by lack of confidence/ trying to get a jump, being too eager, or just being tired or not completely focused. I point this out, because nobody enters a game and says I think I'm gonna jump off sides.... It might be a minor difference, but there is IMO a difference.

[MBAGuy]

Dude I saw what you wrote in the other thread and you have no idea what you are talking about. IT FALLS on discipline you moron. Coaches need to instill discipline in there division one athletes who are getting full rides!!!! Think about it. Making dumb decisions including personal foul penalties and countless arrests revolve around discipline.

I'm sorry your ability to count is limited to the single digits. That must be very difficult for you

[bigtenchamps1899]

meh. i drank when i was underage. i almost got in some fights. i never got in trouble with the cops, and if i had i would not have resisted.

but making stupid mistakes is part of college.

the main problem is that these guys are under the microscope and they need to handle the it better.

i think about what a spectacle i would have made of myself if i was a potential star on a division I football team.:eek::eek::eek:

[Bisker82]

And then someone else said Iowa leads in arrests and has fewest penalties. So that blows up your "link". The link is that these events are all by underclassmen still only a few months into their college experience.

Ummm...I'm not trying to correlate this incident with penalties. I'm saying the link is Self Discipline; and in both cases it is relevant, so no my link is not "blown up".

[DarrenTheGreek]

I don't think I'd go that far. Illinois is without a doubt the more talented team, and they looked like they put it together on Saturday.

Illinois has more talent but I think SDSU is the better team. The Sagarin rankings think so too. SDSU is ranked around the 73rd best team in the country while Illinois is in the 100's.

[MNCH]

Ahh, nothing gets the Gopherholers out like a good ole player arrest...Good thing these incidents are happening with increasing frequency, otherwise we'd be twiddling our thumbs...

[Rick Mons]

How Minnesota-centric of you!+1.

[MBAGuy]

I might also add, this is reason #5,327 you don't start/rely heavily upon true freshmen. Speaking as an almost-middle-aged dude, 18/19 year old guys are, by and large, absolute effing morons.

[Gopherprof]

Honestly I could care less if the players drink, as it's none of my business. The 21 year age for alcohol consumption is largely arbitrary and constantly broken anyway.

But seriously, learn to handle your *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#. If there is a Football 101 course, this should be it. "How to drink responsibly without making an ass of yourself and further breaking the law." The difference between what Watkins and Carter did is huge, especially when considering the broader impact it has on the image of the team.

[Schnoodler]

Ummm...I'm not trying to correlate this incident with penalties. I'm saying the link is Self Discipline; and in both cases it is relevant, so no my link is not "blown up".

Then I don't know what you're saying. We already know he made a bad decision.

[Gopherprof]

I might also add, this is reason #5,327 you don't start/rely heavily upon true freshmen. Speaking as an almost-middle-aged dude, 18/19 year old guys are, by and large, absolute effing morons.
So we should rely on almost-middle-aged men? I think that might hurt recruitment. In terms of breaking the law, I doubt there is much of a difference between 19 year old and 21 year olds, other than the fact that one can legally drink and one cannot.

[Haugy#33]

Speaking as an almost-middle-aged dude, 18/19 year old guys are, by and large, absolute effing morons.[/QUOTE]

This is the reason why kids of this age make such great soldiers. They think they are invincible and do can do what ever they want.

[Ole]

So we should rely on almost-middle-aged men? I think that might hurt recruitment. In terms of breaking the law, I doubt there is much of a difference between 19 year old and 21 year olds, other than the fact that one can legally drink and one cannot.

Big time disagree with you man, after 3-4 years in college you learn alot about yourself and how the world works. 18 compared to 21 is huge as far as maturity goes. As someone a few years out of college looking back through recent memory, I was a frickin idiot at 18-19, I also feel like I grew up at 21-22.

[The 12th Man]

particularly for ones close to the program.

I'm just wondering - do these kids get training on situations like this - kind of like a Football 101 - common sense? I know they get training on interviewing, but have always wondered if they get advice on things like this, Facebook updates, etc.? Or is it kind of like sex ed where they just teach abstinence. Kids will be kids, and let's face it, a lot of kids (including myself) drank underage. Although they are under the microscope, and should be very careful of image and getting caught, I get it's going to happen, I'm realistic. However, this whole resisting arrest and wrestling with officers is what really shocks me. Had his story been like Kenny Watkins - got caught, got a minor, a slap on the wrist, that's something that can easily be overlooked. I'm just wondering if they're taught these things...if you are in a bind, how to act?

Oh, and btw - please...stop fighting! Everyone knows athletes, and many will try to pick fights with you (not in this case, but in general). Take your aggressions out on the field.


The answer is yes. The program is for all incoming athletes, not just football players. Just like anything else, however, it is up to the kid to take the information, process it, and use it the right way.

[Gopherprof]

Big time disagree with you man, after 3-4 years in college you learn alot about yourself and how the world works. 18 compared to 21 is huge as far as maturity goes. As someone a few years out of college looking back through recent memory, I was a frickin idiot at 18-19, I also feel like I grew up at 21-22.
Ok, so this is your own personal experience. Again, I may be wrong, but I am going to venture a guess (and try to find the actual number) that the % of 19 year old kids who get arrested is not going to be much higher, if at all, than kids who are 21. That's the only number that matters. Everything else is speculative and based on personal experience, which is completely irrelevant when putting forth a broad statement like that.

[MBAGuy]

So we should rely on almost-middle-aged men? I think that might hurt recruitment. In terms of breaking the law, I doubt there is much of a difference between 19 year old and 21 year olds, other than the fact that one can legally drink and one cannot.

Jeebus, I expect more out of you, Gopherprof....

In terms of maturity, there's a significant difference between 18 and 21 year olds. Couple that with this being the first time most of them are away from home and their support network for the first time can lead to issues at 18 that won't be there at 21 (because, you know, they will have been away from home for two years at 21, versus zero years at 18...just want to make sure you recognize that connection).

And by the way, Gopherprof, it's "I COULDN'T care less" as in, "I could not care less." It is not, "I COULD care less." If you could care less, you probably should, if you're trying to state something doesn't affect you. I would normally not raise such an issue, but since I'm paying you with my tuition dollars, I feel like you should be held to a higher standard than the usual riff-raff.

[Frod0]

I just can't get over how stupid drunk he had to have been to sit there and try to fight cops. Especially since he probably is outweighed by both of them lol. And then why are they picking fights in the first place. I don't fault guys who may get into dust ups so often, but when you're the one sitting there picking the fight, what are you doing?

Who said he tried to fight a freakin :pig: . Seriously. Ever heard of self defense. Its a natural instinct and when your hammered (which he appears to have been), they are pretty much you're only way of survival and about all that functions. As for the idiots who only seem to care about how this affects the team, get over yourselves. How about thinking about the kid who just screwed up a little bit. It was Halloween and he was having fun with his friends. I am in no way condoning the underage consumption of alcohol but tell me that you didn't. I can (it'll stay that way) and I'm sure some have but practically all athletes and most everybody does drink alcohol underage and especially on a night like Halloween. His biggest mistake other than drinking was hanging out in the city. Go find some party on a farm somewhere. Seriously. Did he not think the :pig: would be out like crazy on Halloween?

[Schnoodler]

Night and day between 18 and 20 even. Something clicks in a kid during his junior year. I'm still waiting but I think I'm a special case.

[Ole]

Ok, so this is your own personal experience. Again, I may be wrong, but I am going to venture a guess (and try to find the actual number) that the % of 19 year old kids who get arrested is not going to be much higher, if at all, than kids who are 21. That's the only number that matters. Everything else is speculative and based on personal experience, which is completely irrelevant when putting forth a broad statement like that.

I put alot into my own personal experience and observing others I went to school with. Kids at 18-19 are different than 21-22, they just are. College is a social experiment for everyone, it changes you even after a few years. Getting back to the point, I hope Carter takes his suspension, learns from it, and grows up a little bit more.

[Schnoodler]

Maybe I'm in the minority here but the only reason I was never arrested for a myriad of things when I was at that age is luck. No other way to put it. I can't get myself to make any kind of judgement on this sort of thing because I know it was only luck that seperates my experience and theirs. Sometimes the biggest problem a kid has is bad luck.

[Frod0]

Night and day between 18 and 20 even. Something clicks in a kid during his junior year. I'm still waiting but I think I'm a special case.

The brain matures fully. It is science.

[Gopherprof]

Ok, so here's a brief statistical sample.

In the state of California in the year 2005 (which is a pretty large and reflective sample pool), there were 45,407 arrests of kids aged 18 and 19, this equals to about 22,703 for each year. Conversely, from 20-29 there were 188,959 arrests, which is about 18,896 arrests per year. This indicates that you are less likely to be arrested as you age (not surprisingly), but this also doesn't take into account the difference between 20 and 29 (which I'm assuming exists), as well as the fact that a decent % of that 18-19 age group probably would have been arrested at some point in their 20's, but were already caught.

I'll see if there are states which are more detailed than 20-29, but I don't think statistically there's a huge variance.

[Gopherprof]

Jeebus, I expect more out of you, Gopherprof....

In terms of maturity, there's a significant difference between 18 and 21 year olds. Couple that with this being the first time most of them are away from home and their support network for the first time can lead to issues at 18 that won't be there at 21 (because, you know, they will have been away from home for two years at 21, versus zero years at 18...just want to make sure you recognize that connection).

And by the way, Gopherprof, it's "I COULDN'T care less" as in, "I could not care less." It is not, "I COULD care less." If you could care less, you probably should, if you're trying to state something doesn't affect you. I would normally not raise such an issue, but since I'm paying you with my tuition dollars, I feel like you should be held to a higher standard than the usual riff-raff.
Yes yes..you've raised this before. I'm aware of the grammatical rules, but this is also a message board, which is generally (generally) more lax and not as subject to complete d-baggary.

Again, I'm not sure that on average there is a significant difference in arrest rates between 18 and 21 year olds (I'm not sure that there isn't either, I'm just raising a question against the complete blanket statement about levels of maturity). I think there is an assumption that this is the case, but I don't know if it is supportable. You can be as condescending as you like, that doesn't mean you are any more correct.

[dpodoll68]

Who said he tried to fight a freakin :pig: . Seriously. Ever heard of self defense.

You can't seriously be this stupid.

There is no such thing as "self defense" when you're engaging with a police officer.

Period.

[monk10]

Maybe I'm in the minority here but the only reason I was never arrested for a myriad of things when I was at that age is luck. No other way to put it. I can't get myself to make any kind of judgement on this sort of thing because I know it was only luck that seperates my experience and theirs. Sometimes the biggest problem a kid has is bad luck.

I didn't drink during football season in college, so I have every right to ride in on my high horse. However, I am suprised I am living after a New Year's Eve party in Prague in one of the coldest winters in Europe ('96 - '97).

So I think that makes me riding in on my high horse with only one foot in the stirrup getting dragged most of the way?

[began11]

You can't seriously be this stupid.

There is no such thing as "self defense" when you're engaging with a police officer.

Period.

TELL THAT TO RODNEY KING!!! Suspend him for the rest of the year. Get him in AA and Anger Management! We all drink and make mistakes as youngsters but this is just not right.

[Frod0]

You can't seriously be this stupid.

There is no such thing as "self defense" when you're engaging with a police officer.

Period.

So :pig: are always in the right? You need to not be such a tool. The system certainly isn't perfect and there are a fair number of corrupt :pig: out there who just want to get back at the type of guy they despised in HS.

[MBAGuy]

Yes yes..you've raised this before. I'm aware of the grammatical rules, but this is also a message board, which is generally (generally) more lax and not as subject to complete d-baggary.

Again, I'm not sure that on average there is a significant difference in maturity between 18 and 21 year olds (I'm not sure that there isn't either, I'm just raising a question against the complete blanket statement). I think there is an assumption that this is the case, but I don't know if it is supportable. You can be as condescending as you like, that doesn't mean you are any more correct.

So you lend no weight to being away both from one's home and one's support structure for the first time as having any role in the shenanigans of college freshmen?

There aren't likely very many stats to verify it one way or another, but it would seem intuitive to me that being away from home for the first time might lead to more instances of misbehavior and arrest than someone who has had two years to build a support network away from home.

And if you don't want people to correct your grammar, don't present yourself as a professor at the school I attend. Based on your screen name and statements you've made suggesting you're a professor, you're representing the U. Go totally anon and I'll leave you alone in this regard like I do everyone else on this board.

[Studwell55]

This is easy.

See you next year, Michael.

[Mr. Samsonite]

I agree with maturing a lot from freshman to junior year in college, but is there something inside frat houses that takes this ability away? Ive had trouble finding a non D-bag there, even if theyre 40. Freshman mistakes happen, get over it, Traye gets a second chance to prove himself, Michael Carter gets a swift kick in the ass

[Schnoodler]

I agree with maturing a lot from freshman to junior year in college, but is there something inside frat houses that takes this ability away? Ive had trouble finding a non D-bag there, even if theyre 40. Freshman mistakes happen, get over it, Traye gets a second chance to prove himself, Michael Carter gets a swift kick in the ass

That's not fair. The nice thing about being in a frat is that you get to learn where the boundaries are and can get just that much closer. you shouldn't bash them because they're better at knowing how far to push things.

Seriously, unless you're in a fraternity you only get exposed to them on social occasions. There is alot more going on there than meets the eye. Plus we got laid alot more. Just sayin.

[JackiO]

I'm sorry your ability to count is limited to the single digits. That must be very difficult for you

You understand what I'm trying to say. The amount of off the field incidents has been a problem this year.

[Schnoodler]

You understand what I'm trying to say. The amount of off the field incidents has been a problem this year.

I don't think it has. We're talking about two right? That's not exactly epidemic levels or anything. I understand the coaching staff and administration aims for zero, but come on. Let's not get all crazy because one kid like to play Luke Skywalker with a 2x4 and one other gets stupid with a cop.

[Gophers09]

Big time disagree with you man, after 3-4 years in college you learn alot about yourself and how the world works. 18 compared to 21 is huge as far as maturity goes. As someone a few years out of college looking back through recent memory, I was a frickin idiot at 18-19, I also feel like I grew up at 21-22.

The difference is not 19 to 21 - it is 3 years of living independently vs 1. There is a tremendous increase in maturity level in those two years for almost everyone.

[Gophers09]

So we should rely on almost-middle-aged men? I think that might hurt recruitment. In terms of breaking the law, I doubt there is much of a difference between 19 year old and 21 year olds, other than the fact that one can legally drink and one cannot.

Sorry, meant to quote here.

[Frod0]

The difference is not 19 to 21 - it is 3 years of living independently vs 1. There is a tremendous increase in maturity level in those two years for almost everyone.

Actually its both. The brain is not developed at 18 (thats his age) which is proven. C'mon people wake up. At 18 the brain is NOT developed fully. Get that through your (hopefully) developed heads.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

You can't seriously be this stupid.

There is no such thing as "self defense" when you're engaging with a police officer.

Period.

wow.....just wow! ever seen the rodney king video einstein? not saying this is even remotely like that, but don't say something as stupid as people are not allowed to use "self-defense" when dealing with over-zealous cops. there are many cops who like to rough people up even when they didn't do anything during their arrest to condone it.

:rolleyes:

[JackiO]

I don't think it has. We're talking about two right? That's not exactly epidemic levels or anything. I understand the coaching staff and administration aims for zero, but come on. Let's not get all crazy because one kid like to play Luke Skywalker with a 2x4 and one other gets stupid with a cop.

Dandridge, Mckinley, Tinsley (although not reprimanded), Carter, Watkins, and Whaley has had issues before and mysteriously missed the first two games with turf toe. That to me is a lot of problems going on during the season.

[RedPoo]

So :pig: are always in the right? You need to not be such a tool. The system certainly isn't perfect and there are a fair number of corrupt :pig: out there who just want to get back at the type of guy they despised in HS.

If life hasn't taught me to be wary of police, then hip-hop has. But I still know that whether or not they're in the right, pushing back against the cops is NEVER a good idea. Especially when it's a corrupt :pig::horse: who's taking out his problems on you.

[JackiO]

I think we all agree that Carter made a huge mistake when resisting arrest. Bottom line. Your just asking for it once they are involved and you're still out of control.

[Schnoodler]

Actually its both. The brain is not developed at 18 (thats his age) which is proven. C'mon people wake up. At 18 the brain is NOT developed fully. Get that through your (hopefully) developed heads.

so...how long before the brain stops developing? I've been waiting for it, and it hasn't happened yet. Should I worry?

[Schnoodler]

Dandridge, Mckinley, Tinsley (although not reprimanded), Carter, Watkins, and Whaley has had issues before and mysteriously missed the first two games with turf toe. That to me is a lot of problems going on during the season.

I was only aware of the two incidents, Tinsley and this one. Enlighten me on the other arests of Dandridge, McKinley, and Whaley this year.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

I think we all agree that Carter made a huge mistake when resisting arrest. Bottom line. Your just asking for it once they are involved and you're still out of control.

you have made your points (even if some do not agree with them). do you really need to post 50 times in this 100 post thread to prove that?! :rolleyes:

[JackiO]

you have made your points (even if some do not agree with them). do you really need to post 50 times in this 100 post thread to prove that?! :rolleyes:

DO you really need to call me out you prick? Ignore list.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

This is easy.

See you next year, Michael.

please! that is a mighty high horse you ride on studwell. :rolleyes:

[Mr. Samsonite]

Haha I'm sure you got laid more, unfortunately, experimenting with your roomates would count as getting laid, and paying for your friends, so technically, its like prostitution, I would hope you'd get at least a little action when you dont allow any other males in besides the ones who live there, then pumping the girls with roofies, but hey, whatever gets it done for you bud.


That's not fair. The nice thing about being in a frat is that you get to learn where the boundaries are and can get just that much closer. you shouldn't bash them because they're better at knowing how far to push things.

Seriously, unless your in a fraternity you only get exposed to them on social occasions. There is alot more going on there than meets the eye. Plus we got laid alot more. Just sayin.

[i'm batman]

Haha I'm sure you got laid more, unfortunately, experimenting with your roomates would count as getting laid, and paying for your friends, so technically, its like prostitution, I would hope you'd get at least a little action when you dont allow any other males in besides the ones who live there, then pumping the girls with roofies, but hey, whatever gets it done for you bud.

NICE!

[JackiO]

He had some insightful posts here and there too... will miss them.

[kapps014]

It never ceases to amaze me what idiotic decisions some of these guys make.

Let's see, I'm pretty much a public figure by being a major-college football player. I'm a freshman and apparently I've moved ahead of a senior (Traye Simmons) on the depth chart. ... I think to celebrate I'm going to go out and under-age drink, then resist arrest. Quality decision making.

Discipline starts off the field, and it certainly doesn't appear to be demanded on the field with all the stupid, undisciplined penalties the Gophers commit. That's gotta' be one of Brew's biggest priorities right now, nipping the cheap stuff & taunting in the bud before it gets out of hand. I think the talent level is clearly up, but so is the stupid undisciplined penalty quotient.

I am starting to wonder whether the players respect the coaches on the team at all. Recall, Stoudemire a cuople weeks ago...then I notice Adam Weber arguing with both Brew & Fisch on the sidelines last week. Something is going on here.

[Schnoodler]

Haha I'm sure you got laid more, unfortunately, experimenting with your roomates would count as getting laid, and paying for your friends, so technically, its like prostitution, I would hope you'd get at least a little action when you dont allow any other males in besides the ones who live there, then pumping the girls with roofies, but hey, whatever gets it done for you bud.

Believe what you want my boy. All I can say women were not a problem and we didn't have to do anything illegal for that to happen, just open the door. Jealousy.

[JackiO]

Believe what you want my boy. All I can say women were not a problem and we didn't have to do anything illegal for that to happen, just open the door. Jealousy.

Ha Ha now this thread is gettin good....I believe schnoodler.

[Frod0]

so...how long before the brain stops developing? I've been waiting for it, and it hasn't happened yet. Should I worry?

Well it should be about 21 but for an immature "prick" like you or jakio I'd say it will never happen. Its not your fault you got dropped on your head as a child though.:(

[Schnoodler]

Well it should be about 21 but for an immature "prick" like you or jakio I'd say it will never happen. Its not your fault you got dropped on your head as a child though.:(

Well that's not very nice. You're off my xmas card list buddy.

[Brew_recruit]

I had the exact same thing happen to me by a UMPD officer and had all charges dropped. They tried to get me with Obstruct legal process and made me spend the night in jail. I got a U of M lawyer (they are free) and it took them 2 seconds of talking to the Minneapolis city attorney to realize that the UMPD over stepped their bounds and it was not obstruction. So remember that UMPD are the biggest jerks around, and once all the facts come out I see these charges also getting dropped.

[NewEngland_Gold]

This thread really does have the potential to go on for weeks.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

DO you really need to call me out you prick? Ignore list.

yes, i do. you prick. you are a loud-mouthed, holier-than-thou smart-ass. nothing more than an internet tough guy. maybe you and art vandelay can start your own echo-chamber chat room where nothing but barbs and cheap shots are thrown around at others from behind your computer screens.

finally, do you really think i give a rip if i am on your ignore list? PLEASE put me on there. THANK YOU!

have a good night mr. know-it-all. :rolleyes:

[i'm batman]

this board needs a "hall of fame" where threads like this can go.

[NewEngland_Gold]

Do you know any more facts in the case beyond those reported in the press to sustain your optimism re MC's situation?

[kapps014]

you have made your points (even if some do not agree with them). do you really need to post 50 times in this 100 post thread to prove that?! :rolleyes:

LOL!!!!! BNG - some people on here actually believe YOU like to 'over-respond' in threads. Hmmmm. Pot, kettle; kettle, pot. LOL

[Frod0]

And people like you. Seriously quit complaining about pointless posts when by complaining about them is EXACTLY that. Don't dot THAT schnoodler's. I don't think I could take it. http://www.docleaf.com/critique/Apr2308/cry.jpg

[JackiO]

And people like you. Seriously quit complaining about pointless posts when by complaining about them is EXACTLY that. Don't dot THAT schnoodler's. I don't think I could take it. http://www.docleaf.com/critique/Apr2308/cry.jpg

Frodo all you do is talk sh*t when you come on here. So very annoying. Why can't you just ignore things you don't agree with and actually add something relevant to this forum.

[Schnoodler]

well...ok. You're still on my xmas card list then. Well if I had one you'd still be on it. but don't think I wouldn't take you off it if i had one. just watch your self.

[Frod0]

Do you know any more facts in the case beyond those reported in the press to sustain your optimism re MC's situation?

Relevance? He's just defending the kid. Why does he need to know more than he already does to show that there is a fairly decent chance the charges are dropped. I mean seriously, why would you stop a guy for holding his fists up on Halloween?

[Frod0]

You seriously should stop ripping an 18 year old. Its just plain wrong. Especially since you know NOTHING (more than the rest of us.)

[i'm batman]

well...ok. You're still on my xmas card list then. Well if I had one you'd still be on it. but don't think I wouldn't take you off it if i had one. just watch your self.

yourself one word, prick.

[Frod0]

Frodo all you do is talk sh*t when you come on here. So very annoying. Why can't you just ignore things you don't agree with and actually add something relevant to this forum.

One could say the same about you. I've been defending a kid who has been getting ripped apart by guys like you who as Bronko says hide behind your computer monitors.

[Gophers507]

god damn it...how hard is it to not get arrested? really

[Schnoodler]

Doesn't it all seem a little strange tho? Really? I mean they see an almost altercation, and seemingly disappointed that there wasn't one go and creat their own. Isn't their job to keep the peace, not instigate the trouble. I mean it just seems odd.

[JackiO]

Relevance? He's just defending the kid. Why does he need to know more than he already does to show that there is a fairly decent chance the charges are dropped. I mean seriously, why would you stop a guy for holding his fists up on Halloween?

fine I was going to get angry with you but it's not worth it.

[GoldenHerbs]

Someone with 2000 posts should not comment on anothers habitual posting habits. IMO.

[Schnoodler]

Now boys and girls, we've already got a three digit thread where you two can stalk each other. let's not infest another one.

[scriber1]

The police report is not certified fact. Given that, if Carter was observed by witnesses as resisting the commands of a police officer and the officer or officers charged him for that, witnesses will have to come forth and intent by Carter needs to be established by the City attorney. If no force unusual to an arrest was not made, the resisting charge should be dropped. Witnesses are his friends, one officer and maybe a by stander or two. While the behavior is unacceptable, this is a minor incident.

[JackiO]

One could say the same about you. I've been defending a kid who has been getting ripped apart by guys like you who as Bronko says hide behind your computer monitors.

If only you knew what was behind my computer monitor. I'm not a football fan for the hell of it.

[Gophers09]

Doesn't it all seem a little strange tho? Really? I mean they see an almost altercation, and seemingly disappointed that there wasn't one go and creat their own. Isn't their job to keep the peace, not instigate the trouble. I mean it just seems odd.

You may have a point depending on how disorderly the initial behavior was. The facts will all come out one way or another - its just unfortunate that they put themselves in the position for cops to intervene (hurting the team) while the case plays itself out.

[Schnoodler]

yourself one word, prick.

Oh my God!!! No!! Say it isn't so. Tell me you won't alert the national media.

You're off my xmas card list too. Wait, let me check it. Nevermind, you were never on it. Carry on.

[i'm batman]

anybody else think don shelby is a prick?

[Frod0]

If only you knew what was behind my computer monitor. I'm not a football fan for the hell of it.

So its do to not having a life?

[Schnoodler]

He's an odd example. I like him, and I think he's a prick. Not sure I'd say that about anyone else.

[JackiO]

So its do to not having a life?

Ha ha ha...let's just say during the state semifinals in 2003 I was one of the players that decimated all of the hopes and dreams of the Hutchinson fan base. God that was a great feeling. Gotta love football, filled with high highs..and very low, lows.

[Gophers507]

The police report is not certified fact. Given that, if Carter was observed by witnesses as resisting the commands of a police officer and the officer or officers charged him for that, witnesses will have to come forth and intent by Carter needs to be established by the City attorney. If no force unusual to an arrest was not made, the resisting charge should be dropped. Witnesses are his friends, one officer and maybe a by stander or two. While the behavior is unacceptable, this is a minor incident.

It's a misdemeanor charge they're not gonna put that much priority on it. btw you don't NEED witnesses for a resisting charge. Did you ever think of a dashboard camera or voice recorder...those work too...Really though why would you fight a low level charge like this. It's a waste of time.

[anticallihan]

No, I'm not tying to hold someone else responsible. And the jokes on here about where everyone else got their's in college is pathetic. What your saying is that underage drinking is acceptable as long as you don't get caught.

It is absolutely acceptable if you are in college. Being 21 is a joke. At the very max it should be 19.

18 is not underage. 18 is old enough to vote, die for this country, and a million other things.

Here is a link showing it is a J O K E.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age

Not listening to a cop is unacceptable.

[husker70]

We know nothing about what was said, or done that led to Carter taking off his coat. Those two need to be interviewed. And there is no report of a punch being thrown or landed. And while the two players followed the two, they left them unharmed and went back to the Pizza place. Again after the fact the two reported what? What instigated an officer looking for the two? And what instructions were given in the Pizza Place. Did the officers identify themselves? What grounds did they have to attempt to hold them, instructing them to raise their hands? What grounds?

There are too many holes in this story for it to go any further. It may rise to a team violation. But the charges they filed will not stand.

[forestlaker]

I think all fans on GH should set an example for the team and stay out of the bars for the rest of the year. Bad things tend to happen when alcohol is involved.

[i'm batman]

i am loving this thread

[i'm batman]

i am loving this thread

prick

[JackiO]

i am loving this thread

I'll keep it going for ten more mins buts the bar is calling for some MNF.

[Frod0]

Ha ha ha...let's just say during the state semifinals in 2003 I was one of the players that decimated all of the hopes and dreams of the Hutchinson fan base. God that was a great feeling. Gotta love football, filled with high highs..and very low, lows.

Oh no! Not an (ex-)prep! You being an ex-athlete explains a lot. Remind me what happened because I think your the only guy who remembers.

[bigtenchamps1899]

Ha ha ha...let's just say during the state semifinals in 2003 I was one of the players that decimated all of the hopes and dreams of the Hutchinson fan base. God that was a great feeling. Gotta love football, filled with high highs..and very low, lows.

TONY MORTENSON???

[NewEngland_Gold]

Charges can always be dropped and in this situation that may indeed be the outcome...please keep the board informed of any new facts in the case you become aware of that may be of use in defusing some of the anxiety and frustration being expressed by GHers this evening.

[JackiO]

Oh no! Not an (ex-)prep! You being an ex-athlete explains a lot. Remind me what happened because I think your the only guy who remembers.

Ha ha........you are from Hutchinson, no? Maybe this is worthy of pm's but I am getting the itch to consume alcohol so I may not have time for this. It was a good field goal at the end of the game, no? Well than again you were only 13 at the time so you very well may not remember. Lyndon Murtha fell like a tree that game.

[JackiO]

TONY MORTENSON???

lol that was good. Unless you were being serious

[Brew_recruit]

It's a misdemeanor charge they're not gonna put that much priority on it. btw you don't NEED witnesses for a resisting charge. Did you ever think of a dashboard camera or voice recorder...those work too...Really though why would you fight a low level charge like this. It's a waste of time.



Why would you fight it? are you an idiot? Why would you want a misdemeanor on your record, especially when a cop over steps his bounds. This is a clear cut case of racism.

[Frod0]

It is absolutely acceptable if you are in college. Being 21 is a joke. At the very max it should be 19.

18 is not underage. 18 is old enough to vote, die for this country, and a million other things.

Here is a link showing it is a J O K E.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age

Not listening to a cop is unacceptable.

18-20 year olds drinking impedes the development of the brain. Maybe you can look that one up on the wiki. Why are cops always free of any guilt just cause they're cops. Them and politicians abbuse the system SO much. Warning: Language. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsCuurneZVE

[bigtenchamps1899]

lol that was good. Unless you were being serious

:D

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Doesn't it all seem a little strange tho? Really? I mean they see an almost altercation, and seemingly disappointed that there wasn't one go and creat their own. Isn't their job to keep the peace, not instigate the trouble. I mean it just seems odd.

after reading the star tribune article i was left thinking the same thing.

it sounds like the UMPD made sure that they had a little action where there really wasn't any. almost seems like they provoked the entire thing. there was no actual fight between the other two guys and carter/watkins, no punches were thrown, no shoving occurred, they all dispersed, everyone left the scene. no problem. later finding out they might have a couple U of M athletes involved in what ended up being a non-incident the UMPD officer in his/her over-zealousness calls for back-up (really??), heads into the restaurant demanding they come outside for a fight that never even happened and the UMPD creates a little incident of their own making by acting tough. i would have been upset too if i was carter -- especially if the officer tried to play "tough guy" and throw me to the ground for something i didn't even do.

the UMPD's response to what never ended up going down here (between carter/watkins and those two guys) reminds me of a similar unnecessary incident that fox 9 created a couple years ago by following some U of M hockey players into a bar with hidden cameras just so they could release the tape on some sleazy investigative reporting show.

basically, nothing but manufactured drama by the UMPD and fox 9 in the u of m hockey incident.

[Dr.Don]

""This is a clear cut case of racism. ""

Yep, here comes the racist part now. :confused:

[Frod0]

Actually would have been 10 so yeah I don't remember it not to mention I was on a trip in Missouri. And do you really care that much about HS? Seriously time to move on. Go have your drinks and forget about the here and now and reflect on the one time you did something that didn't really matter.

[MBAGuy]

Why would you fight it? are you an idiot? Why would you want a misdemeanor on your record, especially when a cop over steps his bounds. This is a clear cut case of racism.

Woof. On that note, I disappear for the next few days. This board is about to implode.... :(

[JackiO]

Actually would have been 10 so yeah I don't remember it not to mention I was on a trip in Missouri. And do you really care that much about HS? Seriously time to move on. Go have your drinks and forget about the here and now and reflect on the one time you did something that didn't really matter.

No, no, no you are totally missing the point. There was an allusion of sorts there...mostly ragging on you because you are from Hutch and I knew that and I just so happened to have been involved in the defeat of arguably the best team in the history of your city. That is all. Maybe this year if you get past a horrible draw for your section can you guys carry out revenge. M West is gonna beat you though.

[NewEngland_Gold]

after reading the star tribune article i was left thinking the same thing.

it sounds like the UMPD made sure that they had a little action where there really wasn't any. almost seems like they provoked the entire thing. there was no actual fight between the other two guys and carter/watkins, no punches were thrown, no shoving occurred, they all dispersed, everyone left the scene. no problem. later finding out they might have a couple U of M athletes involved in what ended up being a non-incident the UMPD officer in his/her over-zealousness calls for back-up (really??), heads into the restaurant demanding they come outside for a fight that never even happened and the UMPD creates a little incident of their own making by acting tough. i would have been upset too if i was carter -- especially if the officer tried to play "tough guy" and throw me to the ground for something i didn't even do.

the UMPD's response to what never ended up going down here (between carter/watkins and those two guys) reminds me of a similar unnecessary incident that fox 9 created a couple years ago by following some U of M hockey players into a bar with hidden cameras just so they could release the tape on some sleazy investigative reporting show.

basically, nothing but manufactured drama by the UMPD and fox 9 in the u of m hockey incident.

Seems like you're suggesting the UMPD needs special sensitivity training for some officers...or perhaps even more.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

LOL!!!!! BNG - some people on here actually believe YOU like to 'over-respond' in threads. Hmmmm. Pot, kettle; kettle, pot. LOL

well, someone has to over-respond to the over-responders. otherwise the inmates would be running this asylum more than they already do! ;)

[MBAGuy]

Ha ha ha...let's just say during the state semifinals in 2003 I was one of the players that decimated all of the hopes and dreams of the Hutchinson fan base. God that was a great feeling. Gotta love football, filled with high highs..and very low, lows.

Oh, now this is great, great stuff. It was destined to be the thread of the year before Web Warrior here stepped up to the plate. We could be seeing the beginnings of the first annual Gopherhole Throwdown underneath the Hutch bleechers. Maybe Gopherprof or Bronko Nagurski Gopher and I can fight too, in a co-main event! :clap:

Amazing, amazing stuff.

[Frod0]

No, no, no you are totally missing the point. There was an allusion of sorts there...mostly ragging on you because you are from Hutch and I knew that and I just so happened to have been involved in the defeat of arguably the best team in the history of your city. That is all. Maybe this year if you get past a horrible draw for your section can you guys carry out revenge. M West is gonna beat you though.

Best Hutch team ever? We had 3 D-1 guys but 2 of them were at positions that have never mattered in Hutch and Murtha's aren't Hutch residents any more :clap:. Point is, IT'S HIGH SCHOOL. THE YEARS WHERE YOUR AT YOUR DUMBEST and guess what, YOU'RE STILL THERE. I'll grow out of it despite already being less of a dink.

[Brew_recruit]

When the umpd officer tried to get the obstruction charge on me, HE TOTALLY PROVOKED the incident, he got in my face and slammed me to the ground just like carter. I hope that he gets a U of M lawyer to help me out. Someone has to let them know that they are free and really good at what they do. The UMPD are jokes.

[JackiO]

Best Hutch team ever? We had 3 D-1 guys but 2 of them were at positions that have never mattered in Hutch and Murtha's aren't Hutch residents any more :clap:. Point is, IT'S HIGH SCHOOL. THE YEARS WHERE YOUR AT YOUR DUMBEST and guess what, YOU'RE STILL THERE. I'll grow out of it despite already being less of a dink.

Let me know the next time the paper thinks you are Better than Eden Prairie. They were your best team. So by your standards, this is the dumbest you will ever be. I can certainly agree with your statement.

[GortonsFisherman011]

So remember that UMPD are the biggest jerks around, and once all the facts come out I see these charges also getting dropped.

I'd have to disagree, when I've dealt with the UMPD they seem to be pretty lenient when compared to MPLS police. If it was off campus (haven't done my research) it was probably the Minneapolis PD anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[Frod0]

When the umpd officer tried to get the obstruction charge on me, HE TOTALLY PROVOKED the incident, he got in my face and slammed me to the ground just like carter. I hope that he gets a U of M lawyer to help me out. Someone has to let them know that they are free and really good at what they do. The PD are jokes.

Fixed

[Schnoodler]

I'm sorry you have less of a dink.

[Schnoodler]

A terrible affliction.

[Frod0]

Let me know the next time the paper thinks you are Better than Eden Prairie. They were your best team. So by your standards, this is the dumbest you will ever be. I can certainly agree with your statement.

Yeah, we really took advantage of having Mort and Swift. Oh wait, we ran it 90+% of the time.

[Bob_Loblaw]

If the story went according to the Strib article than the cops had every right to question those two, search them, and tell them to raise their hands. If a fight almost occurs, it is the responsibility for the cops on scene to get to the bottom of it. I would imagine there wouldn't have been any charges had Carter not acted like an idiot. Watkins (who i'm sure also had been drinking) didn't get anything (if memory serves me correct). Like I said, if it went like the police report states, Carter deserved what he got.

[JackiO]

Yeah, we really took advantage of having Mort and Swift. Oh wait, we ran it 90+% of the time.

Swift was your running back if memory serves correct. I think he did everything on offense

[Brew_recruit]

why didn't the cops stop the people who walked away. Oh ya they were not black. I don't like turing this to a race thing, but that was the only difference between the 2 groups. Also so are the UMPD is going to go around and frisk people when ever they want now?

[GortonsFisherman011]

If it was outside of Mesa Pizza then that's Minneapolis PD jurisdiction. UMPD cops are awesome.

[Frod0]

Swift was your running back if memory serves correct. I think he did everything on offense

Nope, I can't think of his name but it was a red-headed kid who wound up playing at Ridgewater I'm pretty sure.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

I'd have to disagree, when I've dealt with the UMPD they seem to be pretty lenient when compared to MPLS police. If it was off campus (haven't done my research) it was probably the Minneapolis PD anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

no.....it was the UMPD. not the MPD. says so in the mpls star tribune story.

[Frod0]

Brew Recruit, how do you know the race of any of them other than Carter and Watkins??

[GortonsFisherman011]

no.....it was the UMPD. not the MPD. says so in the mpls star tribune story.

My mistake.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

why didn't the cops stop the people who walked away. Oh ya they were not black. I don't like turing this to a race thing, but that was the only difference between the 2 groups. Also so are the UMPD is going to go around and frisk people when ever they want now?

i hate to say it as well, but something tells me there is a decent chance that may have been at least a contributing factor in exactly how the whole thing went down. don't kid yourselves people by thinking that it wasn't. such a reaction by police is not unique to minneapolis or the UMPD (thankfully). unfortunately, it happens all over the country. it sucks, but it is true.

and this is coming from a german-heritage white guy.

[frozengopher]

The police report is not certified fact. Given that, if Carter was observed by witnesses as resisting the commands of a police officer and the officer or officers charged him for that, witnesses will have to come forth and intent by Carter needs to be established by the City attorney. If no force unusual to an arrest was not made, the resisting charge should be dropped. Witnesses are his friends, one officer and maybe a by stander or two. While the behavior is unacceptable, this is a minor incident.

I don't intend to start anything with this, but FWIW a police report generally is certified fact. An officer bases his/her reputation on the factuality of their reports, and the truth comes about one way or another regardless. If the report was found to contain fabrications, the validity of every report that officer writes for the rest of his/her life will be brought into question by any defense lawyer and no prosecuting attorney that will want to take any of the officer's arrests to court.

That being said, if it is likely that the reporting officer already has that kind of reputation, the charge will be dropped. I hate this whole situation, but I have a lot of faith in the police brotherhood. It's too bad that there are some bad apples that bring the whole profession into question.

[UpnorthGo4]

Yup. Cops are out of control jerks until you or your family need one, or the arrested football player is a Badger or Hawkeye. The most important thing is that the Gophers are playing Illinois on Saturday and by God we are going to need Carter playing DB.

You guys who are already speculating that this arrest was unwarranted are being ridiculous. It may eventually turn out that you are right but you have no way of knowing that now unless you were actually there and witnessed what happened. So I recommend that you try to show a little bit of intelligence and reserve your judgment on this case until you actually find out what the facts are.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

I don't intend to start anything with this, but FWIW a police report generally is certified fact. An officer bases his/her reputation on the factuality of their reports, and the truth comes about one way or another regardless. If the report was found to contain fabrications, the validity of every report that officer writes for the rest of his/her life will be brought into question by any defense lawyer and no prosecuting attorney that will want to take any of the officer's arrests to court.

That being said, if it is likely that the reporting officer already has that kind of reputation, the charge will be dropped. I hate this whole situation, but I have a lot of faith in the police brotherhood. It's too bad that there are some bad apples that bring the whole profession into question.

yeah, there are definitely a few of them.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Yup. Cops are out of control jerks until you or your family need one, or the arrested football player is a Badger or Hawkeye. The most important thing is that the Gophers are playing Illinois on Saturday and by God we are going to need Carter playing DB.

You guys who are already speculating that this arrest was unwarranted are being ridiculous. It may eventually turn out that you are right but you have no way of knowing that now unless you were actually there and witnessed what happened. So I recommend that you try to show a little bit of intelligence and reserve your judgment on this case until you actually find out what the facts are.

do you have the same advice for those who are (as is common with some on GH) already playing judge, jury & executioner?! :rolleyes:

[Bob_Loblaw]

why didn't the cops stop the people who walked away. Oh ya they were not black. I don't like turing this to a race thing, but that was the only difference between the 2 groups. Also so are the UMPD is going to go around and frisk people when ever they want now?

#1: They did. "The cops interviewed the other two males". The Cops stopped and asked them what was going on. They (along with Watkins) didn't act like idiots, and it was over.

#2: How do you know the race of those two kids?

It all boils down to Carter behaving like a fool. Had he just cooperated and told his side of the story, I imagine the entire thing would have blown over without anyone being arrested. Look, I am not trying to argue that their aren't plenty of POS who are cops, but if the cops did not act (if it went down like the police report said) they would not have been doing their jobs.

[Frod0]

Is it just me or does the word interview imply that the coppers believe that these guys did absolutely nothing which is highly doubtful. I may be reading too much into that but it is a quote from the police report or poor journalism.

[Schnoodler]

Did the interview of the other two involve a pat down against a wall?

[Frod0]

What do you think?

[frozengopher]

Also so are the UMPD is going to go around and frisk people when ever they want now?

Everything I say is being said from a neutral standpoint with perspective. I'm educated and know a lot about police practice and behavior. Take it for what it's worth, it is not a personal statement.

The police can frisk whoever they want on an investigative stop (street interview - no arrest) if they feel that their safety is in question. It's called a Terry frisk, and it is strictly an unobtrusive search for dangerous weapons on an individual. There's a lot of info on the practice around the internet, and the case originated in Minnesota.

One explanation of the reasoning behind blacks being frisked more frequently compared to whites is because of the style of clothing that is culturally "in" for young blacks in the United States. You find a lot of them wearing extremely baggy clothing, where it is uncertain whether a bulge is just layered fabric or a potential weapon. Also, whites tend to be docile and cooperative around law enforcement. Blacks sometimes do not, and that kind of behavior could be explained originating from the time of our independence through the Equal Rights Amendment.

I don't have any facts or figures on resistance rates against police based on race, or any profiling statistics. Personally, I do know that the Minneapolis Police experienced an outbreak of racial profiling accusations over the past 10+ years by the public and a lot of time and money has been spent on preventing it from an administrative standpoint.

It's really easy to throw out the race card, but from a validity standpoint there has to be some substance to the arrest.

[WAGopher]

I don't intend to start anything with this, but FWIW a police report generally is certified fact. An officer bases his/her reputation on the factuality of their reports, and the truth comes about one way or another regardless. If the report was found to contain fabrications, the validity of every report that officer writes for the rest of his/her life will be brought into question by any defense lawyer and no prosecuting attorney that will want to take any of the officer's arrests to court.

That being said, if it is likely that the reporting officer already has that kind of reputation, the charge will be dropped. I hate this whole situation, but I have a lot of faith in the police brotherhood. It's too bad that there are some bad apples that bring the whole profession into question.

Your opinion that a police report is a certified fact is not true. While a police report usually carries a lot of weight, I know of no judge that looks at such reports as a certified fact. Police reports are the recollections of the officer, nothing more and nothing less.

[frozengopher]

Your opinion that a police report is a certified fact is not true. While a police report usually carries a lot of weight, I know of no judge that looks at such reports as a certified fact. Police reports are the recollections of the officer, nothing more and nothing less.

I'll concede "certified," but recollection is fact, especially when your recollection hinges on whether or not a citizen's civil liberties are sometimes permanently taken away. A police report is used as evidence that, along with other evidence, accumulates to proof without a reasonable doubt. Sometimes a police report is all that there is to an arrest, and that often ends up with a conviction nonetheless.

Also, there are many of cases where a judge will look at a police report as "certified" fact. It depends on the reputation of the officer writing the report and who the judge is. A lot of leeway there.

[Frod0]

Recollection is not a fact. I remember the Gophers winning the NC last year. They can be made up.

[UpnorthGo4]

do you have the same advice for those who are (as is common with some on GH) already playing judge, jury & executioner?! :rolleyes:

Absolutely! Shame on me for not saying that in my post.

[WAGopher]

I'll concede "certified," but recollection is fact, especially when your recollection hinges on whether or not a citizen's civil liberties are sometimes permanently taken away. A police report is used as evidence that, along with other evidence, accumulates to proof without a reasonable doubt. Sometimes a police report is all that there is to an arrest, and that often ends up with a conviction nonetheless.

Also, there are many of cases where a judge will look at a police report as "certified" fact. It depends on the reputation of the officer writing the report and who the judge is. A lot of leeway there.

You are correct that a police report is evidence, but on it's own it is not fact. A court decision will determine if any of the report can stand as factual. Certainly, the reputation of the officer is a factor in the judge's decision.

[50PoundHead]

Recollection isn't necessarily fact. It's an impression.

But that's beside the point. Don't these kids have anything better to do?

[frozengopher]

Recollection is not a fact. I remember the Gophers winning the NC last year. They can be made up.

Yes, but contrary to popular/ignorant belief, an officer of the law has a reputation outside of a message board to uphold.

I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend the implications of lying by a police officer. The truth comes out. Defense lawyers are not morons.

[Frod0]

Oh, I forgot about reputations. Let the High School Law REIGN!

[i'm batman]

this thread was good before the mods combined the "carter" thread with the "don't blame carter" thread, and now it is fepic.

[Gophers507]

Why would you fight it? are you an idiot? Why would you want a misdemeanor on your record, especially when a cop over steps his bounds. This is a clear cut case of racism.

oh god spare me.

[frozengopher]

oh god spare me.

Likewise. I'm done trying on this board, no balanced perspective. Go Gophers! Beat the Illini!

[gogusties]

OK, so he was arrested at midnight. How fast did he get drunk? The game was over at 11? He got off the field, showered, dressed, met the media, then got his drink on? What the? I was barely on the highway by then?

[Brew_recruit]

I like how no one brings up the fact that the cop tried to throw him to the ground for no reason. What reason did he have to search him. I say cop loosely, because it is umpd.

[Frod0]

It was 12:00AM this morning.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

OK, so he was arrested at midnight. How fast did he get drunk? The game was over at 11? He got off the field, showered, dressed, met the media, then got his drink on? What the? I was barely on the highway by then?

from the mpls star tribune story it sounded like this happened on sunday night and not saturday night.

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Did the interview of the other two involve a pat down against a wall?

no kidding! sounds like maybe there was a double-standard by the umpd

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

It was 12:00AM this morning.

correct. from the newspaper story it sounds like this wasn't after the football game on saturday night. it happened on sunday night.

[minngg]

If we didn't have a minor consumption charge this year, we might be the only NCAA Div 1 program without one. Rename this thread the overreaction thread. When we get to 10 minor consumption arrests, let me know. Ferentz' own son has two of them. And yes he is still on the team.

[Too Long in the Wasteland]

I got stopped by a UMPD officer on my bike last summer. Luckily, I didn't get a ticket, considering I had run a red light and was riding the wrong way down Washington Ave. Still, the officer was a total D-bag, and I had to do some world class azzkissing to avoid a $200 souvenir from the incident. Like I said way earlier in this thread, "obstructing justice" = this guy pizzed the cop off, but there wasn't anything really illegal to cite him for. Any competent defense attorney should be able to get the charges dropped, or at least plead down to something petty. That said, Carter should be riding pine for at least a week for being a D-azz and getting himself into this situation.

[GopherHomer]

11 page thread for a misdemeanor which was probably nothing more than a college kid having fun and pissed off cop with an axe to grind...imagine if there was a real crime committed.

[paulser21]

Yeah this whole thread has spiraled out of control pretty quickly. I cannot believe the negativity towards law enforcement on this board though. Yeah nobody likes a speeding ticket or an underage drinking ticket or whatever else they may get in trouble for. But why get angry over something that you put yourself in a position to suffer the possible consequences for?

In this case, we do not know what happened inside the pizza place prior to the cop observing Carter, Watkins, and the two other people. What he did see is Carter and Watkins appear to be attempting to provoke a fight. Why did the officer wait for additional units to arrive prior to contacting the two? It could be for a number of reasons. Perhaps the cop was a single person crew and believed the risk of confronting two intoxicated, confrontational parties by themself was a bad idea for safety reasons. Carter and Watkins were not actively beating the two other people and until that starts happening the officer does not need to rush in and provide immediate assistance. As for when the officers actually arrived, if Carter had just kept his cool I'm sure absolutely nothing would have happened. Instead he decided to apparently not listen to verbal commands, became confrontatational, and now must face the consequences of his poor decision. Believe me, cops aren't out to arrest the world. I don't know Minnesota law code as well as I used to but the incident that occurred outside the pizza place sounded very minor in nature before Carter apparently went a little too wild.

Being polite and following directions will go a long way in how the remainder of your usually brief encounter goes. Being argumentative does not help your cause. And actually fighting/resisting in a physical way definately means things are not going to go in your favor.

[dpodoll68]

TELL THAT TO RODNEY KING!!! Suspend him for the rest of the year. Get him in AA and Anger Management! We all drink and make mistakes as youngsters but this is just not right.

So :pig: are always in the right? You need to not be such a tool. The system certainly isn't perfect and there are a fair number of corrupt :pig: out there who just want to get back at the type of guy they despised in HS.

wow.....just wow! ever seen the rodney king video einstein? not saying this is even remotely like that, but don't say something as stupid as people are not allowed to use "self-defense" when dealing with over-zealous cops. there are many cops who like to rough people up even when they didn't do anything during their arrest to condone it.

:rolleyes:

Let me repeat this again, really slowly, so the three of you can understand: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SELF-DEFENSE WHEN DEALING WITH AN OFFICER OF THE LAW. Period. It really is that simple.

Are officers always "in the right"? No, of course not. But they have a badge and the force of law on their side, and you have, well, nothing. Whether they are always right in theory is up for debate, but whether they are always right in practice is not. Is that fair? No, but then again, life is not fair.

Do undeserving people get roughed up by police officers? Yes, unfortunately, it happens a lot, and it sucks. But the encounter with the officer is not the time to get your retribution. That will happen later, in a court of law, when you will then have "right" on your side.

Am I saying that you have to sit back and take it if a cop is beating you up? Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You will get absolutely nowhere by fighting back, and will likely remove the officer(s) from any blame by doing so. They will get theirs in due time. Some officers abuse the system, but that's the cost of doing business for all the good they provide us in total.

[Clyde Tester]

I like how no one brings up the fact that the cop tried to throw him to the ground for no reason. What reason did he have to search him. I say cop loosely, because it is umpd.

From this morning's update on the Start Tribune site:


The officer requested back-up, and when another officer arrived both went inside Mesa Pizza and took the two players outside. Watkins complied with instructions for a pat search, but Carter refused to put his hands on a wall, and when an officer grabbed his arm, attempting to throw him to the ground, Carter spun around. Both officers then attempted to get control of Carter, who continued to resist the officers even as several additional Gophers football players came outside and yelled at him to stop.

Disobeying orders from an officer is the only justification needed for their response. Period. Watkins was smart enough to follow instructions - Carter wasn't. Period. Other Gopher teammates were there and had to yell at Carter to stop. If that report is true (and I assume it has to be given they are including several other football players as witnesses) then there's nothing more to see here. Let's all move along now and stop with this ludicrous assertion that Carter was somehow in the right here or that he was an innocent victim. He wasn't. Period.

[paulser21]

Let's all move along now and stop with this ludicrous assertion that Carter was somehow in the right here or that he was an innocent victim. He wasn't. Period.


Amen. Let's put this topic to rest.

[MNCH]

Yeah this whole thread has spiraled out of control pretty quickly. I cannot believe the negativity towards law enforcement on this board though. Yeah nobody likes a speeding ticket or an underage drinking ticket or whatever else they may get in trouble for. But why get angry over something that you put yourself in a position to suffer the possible consequences for?

In this case, we do not know what happened inside the pizza place prior to the cop observing Carter, Watkins, and the two other people. What he did see is Carter and Watkins appear to be attempting to provoke a fight. Why did the officer wait for additional units to arrive prior to contacting the two? It could be for a number of reasons. Perhaps the cop was a single person crew and believed the risk of confronting two intoxicated, confrontational parties by themself was a bad idea for safety reasons. Carter and Watkins were not actively beating the two other people and until that starts happening the officer does not need to rush in and provide immediate assistance. As for when the officers actually arrived, if Carter had just kept his cool I'm sure absolutely nothing would have happened. Instead he decided to apparently not listen to verbal commands, became confrontatational, and now must face the consequences of his poor decision. Believe me, cops aren't out to arrest the world. I don't know Minnesota law code as well as I used to but the incident that occurred outside the pizza place sounded very minor in nature before Carter apparently went a little too wild.

Being polite and following directions will go a long way in how the remainder of your usually brief encounter goes. Being argumentative does not help your cause. And actually fighting/resisting in a physical way definately means things are not going to go in your favor.


Please stop posting. You are making too much sense for this irrational thread.